Should hate crime laws apply to religious groups?

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I fully agree,words hurt but lack of freedom hurts more!

No. I believe in freedom of religion. I'm also a big believer in freedom in general. I think anything that doesn't hurt anyone else should be legal. Expressing different beliefs can't hurt anyone since it's just words and it's impossible for anyone's words to make another person feel worse (people cause their own feelings - they get upset because of a low self-esteem, shame, guilt, etc.) and not because of anything someone told them. I wish more parents taught their children what causes their feelings so people wouldn't blame them on other people.



I think that's awful although I can understand why Israel has that law given their history and Judaism having so few adherents.

Everyone of those statements is perfectly legal free speech for anyone. Lay or clergy alike. Secular or religous alike.

So I dont understand the question.

you're talking about "hate speech". Not "hate crimes".

For Muslim preacher to preach that his flock should go out kill Zionists, or for a Baptist to exort his flock to kill gays, would be different. Encouraging folks to actually commit violent hate crimes - maybe thats also protected free speech- but I am open to the suggestion that that should be outlawed. But thats different from your examples.

Words do hurt people but an un free society hurts worse.

So who wins this battle?
https://www.theguardian.com/business/20 ... jewish-men

Well… if the ultra-orthodox man wants to dictate who gets to sit in the seat next to him, then IMO he should have to buy a ticket for that seat, as well…

… and if he - as a result - doesn't want to pay double for a flight to travel in accordance with his religious convictions, then his convictions apparently aren't that important, after all...

I raise it because in this instance a woman's civil right was overturned because a male refused to sit next to her

in this case religious right > womens rights

But why wouldn't a Jewish woman(secular albeit) respect observant Jews following Jewish law,he was just a Hasidic being Hasidic,no harm intended.

If you were at a nice restaurant with a lovely view at the Riviera minding your own business and eating a $ 500 Kobe steak, and a Vegan sitting next to you told you to eat it somewhere else because watching someone eat meat disturbed his/her dinner… would you comply?

No, and I'd counter by asserting that the lack of meat in their diet disturbs and disgusts me. Then insist they eat some bacon, or begone from my presense.

I have never heard of a $500 steak or kobe steak,I eat at the best French restaurant in the US in Lenox,MA and the bill only came to $350 for two people,but on to the point.

A table at a restaurant" is privacy" and all restaurants give every customer there own table and a table or booth should be sufficient separation for all customers,if you have your own table that should be satisfactory privacy for anyone.I don't look or care who's in the table or booth next to me at a restaurant.No I would not give up a table at a restaurant.

But the seating in a airplane is three sets of three seats where people are crunched next to each other,a totally different circumstance.Airlines are supposed to organized seating so people can be seated with people they get along with.It may have been ok for the airline to ask the the Hasidim to move as well if they had two open seats,but if they had one open seat only,asking the woman to move would make more sense.


I don't agree with Christians who are against the LGBTQ,but I would not bring a gay friend to the house of an evangelical friend out of respect for there beliefs even if I don't like there beliefs,it's part of living in a fee society.

I am a gentile but in my 20's studied Judaism and can still read and speak some limited Ebri (Hebrew) and I respect peoples right to follow Halakha (Jewish law).However I would not agree with a Jew asking someone to move in a restaurant because a table is sufficient privacy.

I must admit that I have never experienced a flight where I did not have a pre-designated seat on my boarding pass… I have, on the other hand, on many occasions been a guest at a restaurant where I was only assigned a table when I showed up.

As such, I would be much more understanding if someone were to ask me to change my seating at a restaurant to accommodate the needs of other guests. In the plane, however, I have a justified belief that my seat is *my* seat, as that is what it says on my boarding pass. As I recall, I may even have a legal duty to sit in my assigned seat.

I - and the airline - also have virtually no way of knowing beforehand what private religious sensibility (among countless possibilities) of the neighboring passager I might offend by simply being present in my seat - be it gender, skin color, attire, affinity for the Dark Side of The Force, jewelry, tattoos, haircut etc.

… which I why it is obvious to me that the burden of accommodation should be placed upon the person with such sensibilities, and not the random passenger who is minding her own business and just wants get from A to B.


A house is a person's private property. And if you have a private plane, then you can dictate who gets to sit where - or even if they should be allowed on the plane.

The Hasidim airplane case is more equivalent to a person being at someone else's house who then starts telling the other guests what to do and where to sit.

I don't have money for flights so I have only been on airplanes with parents or parent a long time ago.The last time I flew was with dad and stepmom 20 years ago for my sisters wedding in Seattle.I have never been on an airplane alone,at my income and both parents deceased,never will be again.

I get your points,maybe if people with religious concerns should talk to airlines ahead of time before they fly.

Christians aren't against LGBTQ people. There are "gay" Christians who struggle with same sex attraction who remain celibate. Even if you brought a friend who lived a homosexual or transgender lifestyle, it wouldn't be any different than bringing a friend who has been divorced and remarried (adultery) since living an adulterous lifestyle is just as much a mortal sin as living a homosexual lifestyle according to Christian teaching and Christians don't expect unbelievers to be without sin especially since Christians aren't perfect either.

I'm divorced.

I have heard Christians say they wouldn't let someone who was gay at there house,or others say a gay relative could come but not there partner or in today's world spouse.

Does divorce have to be acknowledged by a Christian church for it to be valid in the eyes of the church ?