Thread for women who are made fun of or ignored by men

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kdm1984
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07 Oct 2020, 11:59 am

Over the years, I've noticed there are many threads where women discuss men going after them, and only a few of us who respond and say we have no clue what that's like. This isn't even specific to WrongPlanet, it's something women in general complain about a lot everywhere I go. During the MeToo movement, I came across numerous posts online from all sorts of forums where women would say dogmatic things like, "Every woman knows what it's like to be harassed!" And I'm like, no, stop, that is NOT a universal, and I'm tired of hearing about it. These women always share their stories, but don't keep in mind that their story isn't a universal truth, and never listen to ours. Other than my husband and a small handful of guys, I've largely been either ignored or mocked by men. My husband has even been attacked for choosing me instead of a better-looking, more charismatic woman. (He's a great guy and ignores these people and thinks they're idiots, but it proves my point.)

I'll give lots of concrete examples proving this.

On Internet forums, there are usually places to post your picture. I will either post one of myself, or one of my husband. On some genetics sites, like 23andMe, it's popular to post pics of you and your family and have people guess your family's ancestry based on phenotype. On most of these sites, people will respond and say things to me like, "Your husband is a really good-looking guy. What did he ever see in you?" Or "Your maternal grandmother was beautiful! What happened to you?"

For instance: https://www.tapatalk.com/groups/anthros ... 535#p90535

Work is similar. I can't tell you how many times I'd go to work, see guys flirt with other women, and I never had to deal with that. They always ignored me. So the only difference is, unlike the Internet, these guys didn't come up to me directly and mock my appearance, because that's not polite to do face-to-face (whereas you can get by with it here on the Internet).

I can go anywhere, anytime, anyplace, and never have to worry about harassment. Now that I'm in my late thirties, I know it's definitely never going to happen, because I'm only getting older, not younger.

Perhaps the strongest incident of this occurred back in 2005 on a sports forum. Several guys actually started a discussion making fun of me, talking about how ugly and uncharismatic I was.

So yeah, I'm more than a little tired of hearing that we women are constantly harassed by men. Some of us NEVER are, and NEVER will be. But we're still every bit woman in spite of not going through that supposedly universal harassment process.


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Last edited by kdm1984 on 07 Oct 2020, 4:34 pm, edited 1 time in total.

kdm1984
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07 Oct 2020, 12:25 pm

I've already received a PM questioning why I posted this. RightGalaxy made a post indicating that men don't fight over her:

viewtopic.php?t=232050&start=32

I totally understand this. There are several threads on the Women's front page here about men fighting over us, abusive men being attracted to us, but people like RightGalaxy and I don't have those kinds of stories. This is a thread for women who are instead made fun of or ignored by men; I couldn't be more clear about the title and intent, so no need to receive a questioning PM about the motive and purpose of the thread, much less from someone who isn't even a part of the demographic indicated, and who isn't even a mod here, but seems to want to play gatekeeper. I've since talked to a mod, and the mod is fine with this thread, so it's settled.


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Mona Pereth
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21 Oct 2020, 8:12 pm

kdm1984 wrote:
Perhaps the strongest incident of this occurred back in 2005 on a sports forum. Several guys actually started a discussion making fun of me, talking about how ugly and uncharismatic I was.

So yeah, I'm more than a little tired of hearing that we women are constantly harassed by men. Some of us NEVER are, and NEVER will be. But we're still every bit woman in spite of not going through that supposedly universal harassment process.

Why do you NOT consider the behavior you describe in the first paragraph, above, to be harassment?

It's not the trying-to-get-into-your-pants type of harassment, but I would still consider it to be harassment. I've experienced BOTH types of harassment (I've even run into men rude enough to critique or ridicule my appearance in person, as well as a near-rape and various men trying to get into my pants). And, as far as I am concerned, they are two sides of the same coin: men who have the attitude that women exist for men's pleasure.


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kdm1984
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22 Oct 2020, 2:22 pm

Thanks for the reply. I should differentiate between sexual harassment (the get-into-your-pants type that you mention), and harassment in the broader sense, such as mocking. Typically the stories I hear from women are the former type, not the latter. Not sure they're quite exactly two sides of the same coin (as in seeing women for pleasure), as I've seen many of these types of men also mock other men for perceived shortcomings -- but I'd agree with you that they both constitute harassment of another person, in at least the broadest sense.


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malavois
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22 Oct 2020, 3:04 pm

I have struggled about how to feel about this. For example, I used to live in an apartment in Brooklyn with three other young women. These three other women would come home with weekly stories about getting catcalled, harassed, followed, etc. I think I was only ever approached once, and it was like on Halloween when I was wearing something completely uncharacteristic for me. I know my roommates definitely did not appreciate the street harassment, and it in fact made them feel unsafe. But I definitely wondered a lot, why am I not getting harassed? Similar feelings have come up during Me Too discussions.

Obviously, I know that the degree to which people yell stuff at you while you walk by is not a measure of your attractiveness. I don’t want people to talk to me on the street, or in bars, or on public transit, etc. It’s still hard to let go of the question, though. What is it about me that is less...something? If it’s that I have a solid resting b. face, or I walk in an aggressive way, I wouldn’t mind. I kind of like the idea of being intimidating or scary. But I am a very short and slight brunette white girl. Am I just oblivious? Have my headphones been too loud and my eyes focused elsewhere? I don’t know.

I’ve chosen to not think about it anymore because it gets into questions of subjectivity that can’t be asked or answered honestly. But I have definitely had a lot of emotions about it. I almost started writing a book about it, but I sense that the sentiments expressed might be wildly inappropriate given the widespread sexual predation that does exist.



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22 Oct 2020, 5:46 pm

Isn't your avatar a picture of you?

Uh, I would never go near any sites where people are likely to write hurtful comments about my appearance. It would get to me too much. And calling people hurtful names online is just as bad as calling people hurtful names offline to their face. It's nasty.

I have been fancied before by guys. I've always considered myself as not very attractive, but I think I am attractive in men's eyes. I have a boyfriend as well.


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idntonkw
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23 Oct 2020, 3:42 am

kdm1984 wrote:
Over the years, I've noticed there are many threads where women discuss men going after them, and only a few of us who respond and say we have no clue what that's like. This isn't even specific to WrongPlanet, it's something women in general complain about a lot everywhere I go. During the MeToo movement, I came across numerous posts online from all sorts of forums where women would say dogmatic things like, "Every woman knows what it's like to be harassed!" And I'm like, no, stop, that is NOT a universal, and I'm tired of hearing about it. These women always share their stories, but don't keep in mind that their story isn't a universal truth, and never listen to ours. Other than my husband and a small handful of guys, I've largely been either ignored or mocked by men. My husband has even been attacked for choosing me instead of a better-looking, more charismatic woman. (He's a great guy and ignores these people and thinks they're idiots, but it proves my point.)

I'll give lots of concrete examples proving this.

On Internet forums, there are usually places to post your picture. I will either post one of myself, or one of my husband. On some genetics sites, like 23andMe, it's popular to post pics of you and your family and have people guess your family's ancestry based on phenotype. On most of these sites, people will respond and say things to me like, "Your husband is a really good-looking guy. What did he ever see in you?" Or "Your maternal grandmother was beautiful! What happened to you?"

For instance: https://www.tapatalk.com/groups/anthros ... 535#p90535

Work is similar. I can't tell you how many times I'd go to work, see guys flirt with other women, and I never had to deal with that. They always ignored me. So the only difference is, unlike the Internet, these guys didn't come up to me directly and mock my appearance, because that's not polite to do face-to-face (whereas you can get by with it here on the Internet).

I can go anywhere, anytime, anyplace, and never have to worry about harassment. Now that I'm in my late thirties, I know it's definitely never going to happen, because I'm only getting older, not younger.

Perhaps the strongest incident of this occurred back in 2005 on a sports forum. Several guys actually started a discussion making fun of me, talking about how ugly and uncharismatic I was.

So yeah, I'm more than a little tired of hearing that we women are constantly harassed by men. Some of us NEVER are, and NEVER will be. But we're still every bit woman in spite of not going through that supposedly universal harassment process.


As a male, may I hijack this thread if you allow.

I am a male, and I got harassed by girls in middle school because I was the most attractive guy in the class due to a symmetrical face and broad shoulders for that age. Girls would cat-call me and yell at me and ask me if I am playing hard to get. Once they encouraged a girl to touch my butt with her foot in class. I was bitter because I was missing out on a bunch of hot girls who clearly wanted me, yet I lacked the social skills to make anything out of it. Then around college age, girls would yell at me from their cars when taking a pleasure ride with their friends. They clearly noticed me due to my attractive looks at the time. It made me feel mildly happy and excited to be noticed due to my looks, but bitter that I cannot get with any of the girls due to my lack of not knowing what to say and being caught off-guard and frankly scared by the unexpected social interaction and being put on the spot. Also, there was almost always a multitude of girls with their friends and I was alone and thus at a disadvantage. I wasn't physically unsafe, but socially it wasn't safe for me as all the attention was on me and they generally would laugh at how I reacted. Girls will laugh at guys they are attracted to, but for me it was both be being awkward and them being attracted to my looks.

I knew a woman with PCOS, which gave her hormones that made her look less attractive with big shoulders and square shaped big boned figure. She also had ADHD and a small nonverbal disability, so she was not very flirty or sociable and was depressed all the time. She also dressed like a homeless man with square baggy jeans, hiking boots and a sweatshirt. Mindless to say, she complained that a panhandler confused her for a man. As she was on the older side (over thirty), she was even less attractive due to age unfortunately.

There is a middle ground for women where getting pursued and harassed is exciting and tolerable. For example, boys would grab girls by hands and feet and throw them in the water at a camp lake.. the overweight girls would say they wished the boys had grabbed them too, noticing how it only happened to the pretty girls. Men take a social risk by harassing and pursuing women, because it can get them rejected and labeled as a creepy guy braking social rules, but women also appreciate the risk the men take as putting some skin in the game on their behalf, and they appreciate being noticed sometimes even in a vulgar way- for example, the girl at the hardware store was telling her friend that a homeless man yelled that she has a nice ass, and she was happy and proud about having a figure that would cause a man to notice so loudly.

A man who will mock your appearance - well something about you made them notice, so maybe they are attracted to you a little bit, but feel weird that you are not pretty enough in a standard way.

I think NT women naturally wear their feelings on their sleeve - how they dress, how they walk, make up - it all adds up to communicate how far feminine and sexual and ready to mate on the gender scale you are. I bet if you wore high heels, short or medium skirt, pantyhose on your feet (is that the right word?), lipstick and make up, and had hair done at the salon - guys would follow you and cat call you and approach you - still maybe not as much if your face is blank, but it would happen. So if you want to experience that, it is not out of the question, all you have to do is try to dress more like that and you will have a different social experience out in the world, although, maybe not after a certain age.



kdm1984
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23 Oct 2020, 4:34 am

Excellent replies, very informative! I'd reply in a bit more detail, but I have an excitable kitten I need to tend to who keeps trying to jump around and squirm in my lap as I try to type. But thanks for the input; good to get a variety of stories and viewpoints.


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23 Oct 2020, 4:50 am

I've been made fun of by men and have been ignored by them, but I've also gotten the sexual type of harrasment. They don't cancel each other out.

When I was in secondary school, all the guys ignored me. If teachers teamed me up with a guy for pair work then yes, we did do the project together, same with group projects. If I started a conversation, they answered enough to be polite but other than that, they never spoke to me.

The sexual harrasment has been mostly verbal, on the street, in the internet, and by some guys I know. There's the non-sexual harrassing too, though there hasn't been all that much of that after I graduated. Men are likelier to ignore me than to bully me these days, and I do feel like getting ignored is the lesser of the two evils.



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23 Oct 2020, 5:28 am

kdm1984 wrote:
Excellent replies, very informative! I'd reply in a bit more detail, but I have an excitable kitten I need to tend to who keeps trying to jump around and squirm in my lap as I try to type. But thanks for the input; good to get a variety of stories and viewpoints.


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23 Oct 2020, 12:47 pm

Just popping in to note that I am one of the generally ignored women, who has never had a man "chase after" her or even been asked on a date in her entire life, and I am so sick and tired especially of men insisting that basically all any woman has to do to get her pick of men is exist.


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23 Oct 2020, 1:39 pm

When you do not understand , why men harass. Or even mock you . It becomes almost impossible to consider the social applications of such behavior when you are literally nearly frighten to death by these actions . Due to a abusive upbringing . So in between fright or flight reactions , it becomes hard to gauge merely innocent catcalling or friendly harassment .?. In between all these events have found literally just a few men whom are mostly innocuous in their dealing with women . And they did not appear till long after was widowed . This does include my late husband as his affections , were quite genuine and , myself considering my bonding with him just merely a wonderous piece of fortune for both of us . He seemed to know about pursuing myself, without trying to instill fear . And included a intellectual pursuit . Rather than just the act of merely skirt chasing .Am no great wonderful looking person ,
And do find myself dressing down or men’s clothe as , am not interested in affections of men . Whereas most of the
People , I run into are strictly predatory in their nature it seems, In R.L. . And it would appear the men that do seem to be Feigning attracted to me , are of a duplicitous & abusive nature .Feel bad for other women whom have to deal with this . Aswell. ...Must admit being with. My late husband did provide a great deal of protection from people’s harassment . Or at least the overt harassment. Now having no support And dealing with PTSD symptoms .
Am less likely to give most people benefit of the doubt . Just expressing my own views on this topic .


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24 Oct 2020, 8:14 am

I'm not completely ignored. Blokes will talk to me. I was thinking about a BBQ I attended last year. I sat and spoke to a couple of guys about travel and music and we had a good time. They ignored the woman I had arrived with. She didn't really make any effort to converse though and we were talking about things she wasn't interested in. So what I'm saying is that I am not ignored, as in men won't talk to me, but I am ignored for romantic purposes. I sort of end up being one of the guys.

I hoped I'd be the cool girlfriend who liked stuff guys like. Not as an act, but because I genuinely like stuff that guys like, but men don't want that. They want a normal girlfriend.

The annoying thing is that when my male friends get settle down, they don't hang out with me anymore. The girlfriend sees me as competition... which is insane because none of them ever were interested in me in the first place. I've got no one to go to gigs with now (not that we can do that now anyway, so I don't suppose it matters anymore).

I'm sick of being judged as not enough.



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24 Oct 2020, 8:58 am

Not being funny but if you have a husband then you are not ignored by all men.

And unless it's an open relationship, you should want to be ignored by other men.

I'm ftm but perceived as female. I've had a few creeps but also been made fun of by people. Generally in a gender neutral way.



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25 Oct 2020, 4:08 am

kdm1984 wrote:
Over the years, I've noticed there are many threads where women discuss men going after them, and only a few of us who respond and say we have no clue what that's like. This isn't even specific to WrongPlanet, it's something women in general complain about a lot everywhere I go. During the MeToo movement, I came across numerous posts online from all sorts of forums where women would say dogmatic things like, "Every woman knows what it's like to be harassed!" And I'm like, no, stop, that is NOT a universal, and I'm tired of hearing about it. These women always share their stories, but don't keep in mind that their story isn't a universal truth, and never listen to ours. Other than my husband and a small handful of guys, I've largely been either ignored or mocked by men. My husband has even been attacked for choosing me instead of a better-looking, more charismatic woman. (He's a great guy and ignores these people and thinks they're idiots, but it proves my point.)

I'll give lots of concrete examples proving this.

On Internet forums, there are usually places to post your picture. I will either post one of myself, or one of my husband. On some genetics sites, like 23andMe, it's popular to post pics of you and your family and have people guess your family's ancestry based on phenotype. On most of these sites, people will respond and say things to me like, "Your husband is a really good-looking guy. What did he ever see in you?" Or "Your maternal grandmother was beautiful! What happened to you?"

For instance: https://www.tapatalk.com/groups/anthros ... 535#p90535

Work is similar. I can't tell you how many times I'd go to work, see guys flirt with other women, and I never had to deal with that. They always ignored me. So the only difference is, unlike the Internet, these guys didn't come up to me directly and mock my appearance, because that's not polite to do face-to-face (whereas you can get by with it here on the Internet).

I can go anywhere, anytime, anyplace, and never have to worry about harassment. Now that I'm in my late thirties, I know it's definitely never going to happen, because I'm only getting older, not younger.

Perhaps the strongest incident of this occurred back in 2005 on a sports forum. Several guys actually started a discussion making fun of me, talking about how ugly and uncharismatic I was.

So yeah, I'm more than a little tired of hearing that we women are constantly harassed by men. Some of us NEVER are, and NEVER will be. But we're still every bit woman in spite of not going through that supposedly universal harassment process.


Well your picture looks good and you're not ugly at all...other than that though I mean my boyfriend thinks I look attractive or whatever, but IDK if I buy it. I had a past unpleasant experience online where guys were bullying me online, tunrs out they were just a bunch of internet trolls but it was still hurtfull with them dissing on me all the time. But also I mean I was a 16-17 year old girls and these guys had such a lack of life they were in their 20's or older, picking on a teenage girl. So sure it made me feel bad but that said who is more pathetic me getting my feelings hurt at 17 having guys try to tell me how ugly I am or the 20-30 year old guys spending time on the internet to try to bully a 17 year old girl.


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25 Oct 2020, 7:20 am

KT67 wrote:
Not being funny but if you have a husband then you are not ignored by all men.
I was thinking that too.

There's literally something so off-putting about me than not even one man is attracted to me enough to ask me on a date. I've had one date in 10years.

I really thought that if someone would just give me a chance they could see the real me and love me.

When I turned up he made it clear that he wasn't interested.

Even if given a chance, I'm not enough of whatever it is you need to be to be attractive. And I don't just mean physically. I'm told I'm attractive, by other women. But my personality isn't even good enough. It's so bad even being attractive physically doesn't make up for how bad my personality is.