“Free Speech” protest attacked, canceled in Frisco
ASPartOfMe
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I am well aware of the old adage that "Freedom of speech exists for people you disagree with", but there is a limit. People spreading ideas that central American immigrants are violent invaders, or that feminists are trying to destroy western civilization, or that trans people are predatory deviants are not valuable speech. They poison public discourse and get people killed.
What near-fringe ideas do you have in mind that might be unfairly stifled because of policies that platforms like twitter have adopted?
The limit is an imminent threat
All of the "woke" "anti-racist" stuff was at until very recently considered loony and laughed off by most platforms be it online and traditional. What I have in mind is stuff I am clueless about because they are so fringe. They may be good things but how will we know?
Not according to the constitution there isn't
Supreme Court unanimously reaffirms: There is no ‘hate speech’ exception to the First Amendment
[The idea that the government may restrict] speech expressing ideas that offend … strikes at the heart of the First Amendment. Speech that demeans on the basis of race, ethnicity, gender, religion, age, disability, or any other similar ground is hateful; but the proudest boast of our free speech jurisprudence is that we protect the freedom to express “the thought that we hate.”
Justice Anthony Kennedy wrote separately, also for four justices, but on this point the opinions agreed:
A law found to discriminate based on viewpoint is an “egregious form of content discrimination,” which is “presumptively unconstitutional.” … A law that can be directed against speech found offensive to some portion of the public can be turned against minority and dissenting views to the detriment of all. The First Amendment does not entrust that power to the government’s benevolence. Instead, our reliance must be on the substantial safeguards of free and open discussion in a democratic society.
And the justices made clear that speech that some view as racially offensive is protected not just against outright prohibition but also against lesser restrictions.
This was a UNANIMOUS decision, the liberal and conservative constitutional experts both understood.
Getting back to the original topic yes alt right people have a constitutional right to demonstrate without being physically attacked.
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One thing I have noticed is that, absent left-aligned "counter protests", right-wing protests appear peaceful. I also don't recall hearing about many right-aligned "counter protests".
Being that "counter-protests" are designed to try and restrict the other party's ability to have their message heard, it does give an indication as to where each side stands with regards to "freedom of speach", along with their tolerance for opinions with which they disagree.
One thing I have noticed is that, absent left-aligned "counter protests", right-wing protests appear peaceful. I also don't recall hearing about many right-aligned "counter protests".
Being that "counter-protests" are designed to try and restrict the other party's ability to have their message heard, it does give an indication as to where each side stands with regards to "freedom of speach", along with their tolerance for opinions with which they disagree.
That is not true at all. I doubt you have even been to one of these protests.
The opposite to free speech is a communistic form of governing system. Communism has been introduced into the USA, UK and European schools for a while. It came into the UK when they brought in the then new GCSE system and with it out went physical punishment and in came brainwashed reasoning.
Take a look at this. (If you have time I will also provide a longer link to watch. The shorter one is just a small part of it).
https://youtu.be/IOY4jRSpzkM
https://youtu.be/ldkAuUgSjdQ
_________________
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One thing I have noticed is that, absent left-aligned "counter protests", right-wing protests appear peaceful. I also don't recall hearing about many right-aligned "counter protests".
Being that "counter-protests" are designed to try and restrict the other party's ability to have their message heard, it does give an indication as to where each side stands with regards to "freedom of speach", along with their tolerance for opinions with which they disagree.
That is not true at all. I doubt you have even been to one of these protests.
Well, I'm always happy to be corrected...Could you provide any details (media reports, for example) to help me understand what exactly I stated that was "not true"?
Without such evidence to support the claim that what I said was "not true", and with so many potential areas to which you could be refering to, it is a meaningless statement, to which no value can be attached.
There are many parallels between the battles between the "hard hats" and the "hippies" in the 1960s....and the "alt-right" and "BLM/Antifa" these days.
Both "right wingers" and "progressives" protest peacefully for the most part; but there are fringe elements within both groups who are really not all that peaceful.
Free Speech = the right to express any opinions without censorship or restraint.
There are exceptions, for example, is a person is a member of a group that is classified as a terrorist group.
In the UK, the racist organisation National Action is now regarded as a terrorist organisation due to some of their members involvement in the organised murder of a member of parliament.
A number of people since have been put in prison for their involvement in the organisation including at least one member of the British Police Force and at least one member of the British Army.
The reason why racists gravitate towards conservative / republican party is due to the political values that these parties promote. Such people also often reject the political values of the leftist parties, although interestingly enough, during the rise of the original nazi's pre-second world war, Hitler and his buddies were on both sides of the fence of politics, until the night of the long knives which the more right wing members of the nazi party did away with all the people who were more liberal.
Apparently, according to speculation, Hitler ordered this execution of his buddies who helped the Nazi party rise to power, as Hitler started to fear the power of those who were strong in the brown shirts, but also, to unify the political aims of the nazi party. If there was no diversity within his own party, then it would be much more robust as a party.
Apparently some of the people who were murdered during this night, were good friends of Hitler.
I guess Hitler and his far right buddies just used the brown shirts to help him rise against the opposition, and once they had achieved their goals, they did away with those who helped them gain power.
So yes, being a conservative or republican does not automatically make a person racist or a nazi.
I believe there are loads of people who belong to these parties as well as loads of people who support / vote for these parties who are not racist and who do not hold nazi like values.
There are some, however who do. After all, Nazism is a form of fascism, and fascism is a form of totalitarian government. Conservative and Republican's are political parties and not a type of government.
How the government is organised determines as to whether the government is more democratic or more totalitarian.
Interestingly enough, many of the communist governments in our history have been more totalitarian than democratic forms of governments.
I found such an observations ironic, as in some cases, both the fascists and the communists want to run the population by placing a dictator or party of dictators to enforce a totalitarian control over the masses, with out the masses having any freedom or say in the choices made for them which affect all the governed populations lives.
In totalitarian governments, which includes nazi fascist governments and most realised communist governments, freedom of speech is not a right, and in many cases, if one speaks out against the manner in which the totalitarian government does business, the consequences can be fatal.
This is in interesting observation, as those alt-right who use the freedom of speech as a defence to air their opinion on their racist and prejudiced values, if their vision was realised, they would likely find they lose their freedom of speech, due to the totalitarian nature of the government that they wished for.
It would certainly be ironic if such a scenario were to be realised and the people who fought for such a government were the among the people who lost their right, because they were not among the elite ruling class / master race.
Yes, how ironic. I see the funny side in such a realisation.
btw, did anyone read the article about the Fred Perry brand taking off the market their black and yellow t-shirts due to being adopted by the Proud Boys.
What i also found ironic, is that Fred Perry was the son of a UK socialist MP, who was a tennis champ, who started his clothing business by going into a partnership with a Jewish businessman who was friend of his.
How ironic, all these racist neo's turning out to be wearing clothing made by a Jewish man. lol.
Ironically, the original trend for wearing Fred Perry's came from the Moonstomp skin head movement during the 60s.
Moonstomp skin heads were not racist but a movement of Jamaican reggae and ska lovers and party goers.
This UK movement started their own fashion trend which copied the Jamaican fashions of the time.
The UK neo's / alt right of their time, hijacked the fashion (as they do with other popular trends)
and used it to infiltrate the movement and do their best to convert those within the movement that they saw as fit for purpose.
I don't see the left side or anyone else whining about censorship or free speech because we are not going around saying this s**t so we don't need to talk about free speech because we don't feel censored.
There are exceptions, for example, is a person is a member of a group that is classified as a terrorist group.
In the UK, the racist organisation National Action is now regarded as a terrorist organisation due to some of their members involvement in the organised murder of a member of parliament.
A number of people since have been put in prison for their involvement in the organisation including at least one member of the British Police Force and at least one member of the British Army.
The reason why racists gravitate towards conservative / republican party is due to the political values that these parties promote. Such people also often reject the political values of the leftist parties, although interestingly enough, during the rise of the original nazi's pre-second world war, Hitler and his buddies were on both sides of the fence of politics, until the night of the long knives which the more right wing members of the nazi party did away with all the people who were more liberal.
Apparently, according to speculation, Hitler ordered this execution of his buddies who helped the Nazi party rise to power, as Hitler started to fear the power of those who were strong in the brown shirts, but also, to unify the political aims of the nazi party. If there was no diversity within his own party, then it would be much more robust as a party.
Apparently some of the people who were murdered during this night, were good friends of Hitler.
I guess Hitler and his far right buddies just used the brown shirts to help him rise against the opposition, and once they had achieved their goals, they did away with those who helped them gain power.
So yes, being a conservative or republican does not automatically make a person racist or a nazi.
I believe there are loads of people who belong to these parties as well as loads of people who support / vote for these parties who are not racist and who do not hold nazi like values.
There are some, however who do. After all, Nazism is a form of fascism, and fascism is a form of totalitarian government. Conservative and Republican's are political parties and not a type of government.
How the government is organised determines as to whether the government is more democratic or more totalitarian.
Interestingly enough, many of the communist governments in our history have been more totalitarian than democratic forms of governments.
I found such an observations ironic, as in some cases, both the fascists and the communists want to run the population by placing a dictator or party of dictators to enforce a totalitarian control over the masses, with out the masses having any freedom or say in the choices made for them which affect all the governed populations lives.
In totalitarian governments, which includes nazi fascist governments and most realised communist governments, freedom of speech is not a right, and in many cases, if one speaks out against the manner in which the totalitarian government does business, the consequences can be fatal.
This is in interesting observation, as those alt-right who use the freedom of speech as a defence to air their opinion on their racist and prejudiced values, if their vision was realised, they would likely find they lose their freedom of speech, due to the totalitarian nature of the government that they wished for.
It would certainly be ironic if such a scenario were to be realised and the people who fought for such a government were the among the people who lost their right, because they were not among the elite ruling class / master race.
Yes, how ironic. I see the funny side in such a realisation.
btw, did anyone read the article about the Fred Perry brand taking off the market their black and yellow t-shirts due to being adopted by the Proud Boys.
What i also found ironic, is that Fred Perry was the son of a UK socialist MP, who was a tennis champ, who started his clothing business by going into a partnership with a Jewish businessman who was friend of his.
How ironic, all these racist neo's turning out to be wearing clothing made by a Jewish man. lol.
Ironically, the original trend for wearing Fred Perry's came from the Moonstomp skin head movement during the 60s.
Moonstomp skin heads were not racist but a movement of Jamaican reggae and ska lovers and party goers.
This UK movement started their own fashion trend which copied the Jamaican fashions of the time.
The UK neo's / alt right of their time, hijacked the fashion (as they do with other popular trends)
and used it to infiltrate the movement and do their best to convert those within the movement that they saw as fit for purpose.
Take a look at this. (If you have time I will also provide a longer link to watch. The shorter one is just a small part of it).
https://youtu.be/IOY4jRSpzkM
https://youtu.be/ldkAuUgSjdQ
I never want people with viewpoints that oppose my own to be silenced. If you have so little faith in your own viewpoint that it must go unchallenged than you really need to reexamine your worldview.
We are all to aware of them and their points of view. It is not for a lack of understanding that their views are being rejected.
They are choosing to protest Twitter regulating hate speech and intentional misinformation on their sites. That's what they're choosing to protest. They're either taking issue with a private company regulating the use of its own service in general, which would go against their free market capitalism. Or they are protesting the regulation of hate speech and misinformation in particular, which is reprehensible.
Not to mention that the Proud Boys were originally planned to accompany these protesters--so it's clear their beliefs go beyond just "free speech".
I beg to differ. Conservatives and republicans are not racists or homophobes. This is more of a political issue about the coming election. The problem with social media is that it has created this echo chamber where people only see the things that validate their own biases.
Strange thing is every racist, homophobe, and transphobe I have seen online always happened to be a conservative or a Trump supporter. How do I know this, they have those listed in their bio or have posts about it it on their page or they confirm they are a Trumper or conservative or they were posting in r/The_Donald which is now a banned sub.
I have noticed this strange pattern and it can't possibly be a coincidence.
Its a matter of opinion. The reason "Hate Speech" laws are a bad idea is because eventually people will come to view everything they disagree with, no matter how absurd, as "Hate Speech".
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