Jesus bashing

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Wow, now that's what I call fun. And guess what? I'm being serious.

Really, I never let anybody else interpret what I read. Granted, the translation into English (in my case) of any great and historical book, leaves us dependent on the character and motivation of the translator. But for example, I prefer autobiography to biography when reading the saints. This exercise, by the way, is how I was able to get through the most difficult book I ever read, "The Sickness Unto Death" by Kierkegaard.

(The spell check built into this system is impressive. It caught Kierkegaard. I often misplace the i and the e)

Right now, on my public radio station, a program just began, "Electorns and enlightment: Belief and the brain.

Listen here, you'll need a RealPlayer: http://www.fsu.edu/~wfsu_fm/listen/index.htm WFSQ-FM 91.5

Stay tuned for Harry Shearer's 'Le Show' at 1pm EDT, (1700GMT, I think.)

But Jesus was asking to be bashed.

Are you saying he was a submissive into being dominated via bludgeoning? jk lame joke

Jesus was going to be persecuted for his message no matter what considering what time and where he gave that message. The people who still bash Jesus himself (not the church ran by humans) are probably the same type of people who persecuted him back then.

I'm sorry, but not all celebrities are liked by everyone.

he was not recongised as a celeb by most at the time... is my impression

He wasn't a celebrity at all during his time lmao. Most people did not want to hear what he had to say at all. Celebrities are created by the modern media, that didn't exist back then. A local celebrity would be an athelete or a gladiator for example.

Of course if he went around raising people from the dead and healing them and performing miracles and such he would be some kind of media subject. Mostly he would be hated and reviled for being counter to what the popular religious culture is (forgiving when most are judgemental asshats). The nice guy never wins.

I actually hate/dislike most celebrities, especially actors. That is easy for me to do, since I seem to find a way to hate everyone eventually.

Well, on one particular occasion, He spoke to a crowd of 5,000 men who had gathered to hear him, with their families. On another occasion, He spoke to 4,000 men, again with their families. Both times, they had followed Him out to wilderness areas (the 4,000 men: Matt 15:13: "wilderness"; the 5,000 men: Matt 14:15: "desert place") of such harsh environments that Jesus mentioned to his disciples that the crowd would faint, if it tried to make it to the nearest food supplier (Matt 15:32). The crowds had listened to Jesus until they were that hungry -- hungry enough to be near fainting. It would be modest to suggest that 10,000 people gladly skipped lunch to follow Jesus out into the wilderness to hear Him. I won't address the issue of actual "celebrity", but it's clear from those passages that His speeches were avidly listened to by over 10,000 people.

Also, Jesus was a child prodigy, in that at 12 years of age, he was teaching eagerly-listening rabbis. "And the child grew, and waxed strong in spirit, filled with wisdom: and the grace of God was upon him... And when he was twelve years old, they went up to Jerusalem after the custom of the feast... And it came to pass, that after three days they found him in the temple, sitting in the midst of the teachers, both hearing them, and asking them questions. And all that heard him were astonished at his understanding and answers" (Luke 2:40, 42, 46-47).

And, needless to say, the rabbis and scribes were always bending His ear.

All this taken together, it's clear that Jesus was both well-known and greatly sought for His words. Whether that qualifies Him as an ancient-world "celebrity" is of no interest to me, but He could certainly be called that.

Last edited by Ragtime on 25 Jul 2007, 1:50 pm, edited 3 times in total.

Hmm...I man who was, at the least, making the claim
to the Davidic lineage, would indeed be something of
a celebrity, at that time.


And indeed, going completely against
the beliefs of the time, preaching what
was effectively an insurrection, one can't
but expect that he'd both be a bit known,
and rather reviled by the establishment.


True or not, Jesus doesn't strike me
as someone who was your typical
'nice guy'. Those who seek change
through revolutionary means, seldom
are.

I consider myself a Christian. I personally despise my church, especially my music pastor who is a complete obnoxious jerk. I can totally sympathize with anybody who was harmed or mocked by a Christian, but the said victim must realize that lots of people who claim to be Christians are not so and are at least equal (if not much worse, because they are hypocrites) to the rest of the world. Much evil has been committed by Christianity, but also Islam (even today) and Judaism (the Israelites pretty much perpetrated a genocide of the Canaanites). I'm not perfect, and I'm not better than any non-Christians in any way. Don't put me into the category of Jerry Falwell, please. Not all Christians (but I admit many are) are ignorant, rabidly Republican, and uneducated.

I doubt Jesus was taken seriously until he started performing miracles. That would make him a "celebrity" of sorts maybe in a religious or political sense if such a thing exists. Him preaching to large audiences doesn't make him a celebrity. There are people who speak to large audiences who are not really celebrities so to speak. Jesus was influential and contraversial that much is for sure. Celebrities are loved and hated for their accomplishments in a material sense. They are not really revolutionary political or religious figures. Celebrities are empty and shallow people normally. He claimed to be directly related to David, that got him credibility somewhat, but that is political. Celebrities entertain you.

When did Jesus strike someone himself in a violent manner. His only real outburst was at people selling goods in a synagogue. His revolution was his message, he never was the military leader Messiah that the Jews wanted.

Presuming, of course, that these
are not mere fabrications, to enhance
his image. Just as one presumes that they
are for the pagan equivalents.



Read the Gospel of Thomas.

Naturally, the Gospels don't tell us everything Jesus did, or didn't do; they are FAR too brief for that! John even says so in the last verse of his gospel (John 21:25). Therefore, the gospels should be taken as Jesus' "Greatest Hits", in effect -- His statements and deeds which His disciples thought most exemplified Him and the Good News He brought, and taught.

I don't like the starchy, movie versions of Christ, where they take the gospels, those "Greatest Hits", and make like Jesus truly only said and did THOSE things, where He seems quite non-human indeed, and where He had no body language whatsoever. I mean, He's just standing there like a statue in such films, saying, "Bless - ed...are...the...meek...". For crying out loud, He wasn't an android or a wax scuplture. He talked, and talked NORMALLY; He didn't recite King James lines, or have oddly lighter and wavier hair than everyone else.