Treatment of left wing rioters vs pro Trump rioters

Page 2 of 3 [ 34 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3  Next

ASPartOfMe
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 25 Aug 2013
Age: 66
Gender: Male
Posts: 34,480
Location: Long Island, New York

10 Jan 2021, 6:26 am

Bradleigh wrote:
ASPartOfMe wrote:
Since you want to focus on the left first I said nothing about the left storming the capital, I did not mention any specific reaction just that it would go beyond rioting. I based it on how some elements of the anti war movement reacted when they did not get the reaction they expected they moved on to bombings.


What bombings?

Bryan Burrough is the author of Days of Rage: America’s Radical Underground, the FBI and the Forgotten Age of Revolutionary Violence.
The Bombings of America That We Forgot
Quote:
It may be hard to recall now, but there was a time when most Americans were decidedly more blasé about bombing attacks. This was during the 1970s, when protest bombings in America were commonplace, especially in hard-hit cities like New York, Chicago and San Francisco. Nearly a dozen radical underground groups, dimly remembered outfits such as the Weather Underground, the New World Liberation Front and the Symbionese Liberation Army, set off hundreds of bombs during that tumultuous decade—so many, in fact, that many people all but accepted them as a part of daily life

The underground groups of the 1970s were a kind of grungy, bell-bottomed coda to the protests of the 1960s; their members were mostly onetime student leftists who refused to give up the utopian dreams of 1968. While little remembered today, there was a time during the early 1970s when the U.S. government—the Nixon Administration—considered these groups a genuine threat to national security. Alarmed by a series of Weatherman attacks, Nixon told J. Edgar Hoover during a June 1970 Oval Office meeting that “revolutionary terror” represented the single greatest threat to American society.

Bombing attacks were growing by the day. They had begun as crude, simple things, mostly Molotov cocktails college radicals hurled toward ROTC buildings during the late 1960s.

In a single eighteen-month period during 1971 and 1972 the FBI counted an amazing 2,500 bombings on American soil, almost five a day. Because they were typically detonated late at night, few caused serious injury, leading to a kind of grudging public acceptance. The deadliest underground attack of the decade, in fact, killed all of four people, in the January 1975 bombing of a Wall Street restaurant. News accounts rarely carried any expression or indication of public outrage.

The epidemic of bombings eased as the decade wore on, though this wasn’t readily apparent in San Francisco, where explosions remained so prevalent that, after an especially nasty series of attacks in 1976, an FBI spokesman termed the city “the Belfast of North America.’” And the violence actually grew more deadly as the number of underground groups dwindled and grew more desperate; the deadliest year for underground violence was 1981, when eleven people were killed in bombings and bank robberies gone bad.


_________________
Professionally Identified and joined WP August 26, 2013
DSM 5: Autism Spectrum Disorder, DSM IV: Aspergers Moderate Severity

It is Autism Acceptance Month

“My autism is not a superpower. It also isn’t some kind of god-forsaken, endless fountain of suffering inflicted on my family. It’s just part of who I am as a person”. - Sara Luterman


Bradleigh
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 25 May 2008
Age: 33
Gender: Non-binary
Posts: 6,669
Location: Brisbane, Australia

10 Jan 2021, 6:50 am

ASPartOfMe wrote:
Bryan Burrough is the author of Days of Rage: America’s Radical Underground, the FBI and the Forgotten Age of Revolutionary Violence.
The Bombings of America That We Forgot


That is like 50 years ago, when America was literally forcing people to go to another country to kill supposedly evil communists. What does that have to do with the Left now? Most terrorists are Right wing. Isn't the whole war against Vietnam, which this guy was protesting about, essentially one big terrorism on the part of America, especially the right wing?

People even now treat Rambo like he is some symbol of pro-war and pro-violence hero.


_________________
Through dream I travel, at lantern's call
To consume the flames of a kingdom's fall


ASPartOfMe
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 25 Aug 2013
Age: 66
Gender: Male
Posts: 34,480
Location: Long Island, New York

10 Jan 2021, 7:24 am

Bradleigh wrote:
ASPartOfMe wrote:
Bryan Burrough is the author of Days of Rage: America’s Radical Underground, the FBI and the Forgotten Age of Revolutionary Violence.
The Bombings of America That We Forgot


That is like 50 years ago, when America was literally forcing people to go to another country to kill supposedly evil communists. What does that have to do with the Left now? Most terrorists are Right wing. Isn't the whole war against Vietnam, which this guy was protesting about, essentially one big terrorism on the part of America, especially the right wing?

People even now treat Rambo like he is some symbol of pro-war and pro-violence hero.

The bombings went on after major American involvement ended at the beginning of 1973. As noted there were dozens of groups with different motives but if I were to label them it would be anti capitalist, anarchists.

My “prediction” is not based on 1971 or 2021 but human nature. Some people give up, some escalate look no further then Wednesday. But yes this is not 1971 nor are the MAGA’s the left, all I wrote is I would have expected escalation by some on the left and others to give up. If you have another prediction as to how the left and the right would have reacted to a Trump victory I would be curious to read it.


_________________
Professionally Identified and joined WP August 26, 2013
DSM 5: Autism Spectrum Disorder, DSM IV: Aspergers Moderate Severity

It is Autism Acceptance Month

“My autism is not a superpower. It also isn’t some kind of god-forsaken, endless fountain of suffering inflicted on my family. It’s just part of who I am as a person”. - Sara Luterman


Bradleigh
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 25 May 2008
Age: 33
Gender: Non-binary
Posts: 6,669
Location: Brisbane, Australia

10 Jan 2021, 8:29 am

I predict that no one would have stormed the Capitol building. We can look back to when Trump elected in for an idea for how the Left acted, there were protests, and talks about the injustice of the electoral college that favors the Republicans from them able to win without getting the popular vote.

It is not much of a prediction to just say that some would give up and others would try harder. But there is also more evidence pointing to the Right as being far more violent than the Left. The Right have also been trying to paint Antifa like they are some sort of dangerous organized army, while also housing groups like the Boogaloo boys and the Three Percenters.


_________________
Through dream I travel, at lantern's call
To consume the flames of a kingdom's fall


ASPartOfMe
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 25 Aug 2013
Age: 66
Gender: Male
Posts: 34,480
Location: Long Island, New York

10 Jan 2021, 11:29 am

Bradleigh wrote:
I predict that no one would have stormed the Capitol building. We can look back to when Trump elected in for an idea for how the Left acted, there were protests, and talks about the injustice of the electoral college that favors the Republicans from them able to win without getting the popular vote.

It is not much of a prediction to just say that some would give up and others would try harder. But there is also more evidence pointing to the Right as being far more violent than the Left. The Right have also been trying to paint Antifa like they are some sort of dangerous organized army, while also housing groups like the Boogaloo boys and the Three Percenters.

Correct it was not much of prediction just and off the cuff thoughts to something League_Girl wrote. It was others who saw all sorts motivations and things that were never there.

I was actually somewhat more specific about the right’s and Trump’s reaction predicting one Kristallnacht after another. This was no brilliant deduction either. It would have been emboldened bullies escalating “owning the libs” and Trump being even more open about encouraging it(same thing).

What could the left do to escalate? More complaining about unfairness of the electoral college, More impeachment attempts, more protests and riots all actions in that in this scenario had failed, more cancel culture? How could they go beyond riots in nearly every city and mostly peaceful protests in nearly every locale big and small?. Bigger weapons maybe. As far as those ancient bombings there is a consistency to now in that they emphasized attacks on property.


_________________
Professionally Identified and joined WP August 26, 2013
DSM 5: Autism Spectrum Disorder, DSM IV: Aspergers Moderate Severity

It is Autism Acceptance Month

“My autism is not a superpower. It also isn’t some kind of god-forsaken, endless fountain of suffering inflicted on my family. It’s just part of who I am as a person”. - Sara Luterman


Bradleigh
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 25 May 2008
Age: 33
Gender: Non-binary
Posts: 6,669
Location: Brisbane, Australia

10 Jan 2021, 4:44 pm

ASPartOfMe wrote:
What could the left do to escalate? More complaining about unfairness of the electoral college, More impeachment attempts, more protests and riots all actions in that in this scenario had failed, more cancel culture? How could they go beyond riots in nearly every city and mostly peaceful protests in nearly every locale big and small?. Bigger weapons maybe. As far as those ancient bombings there is a consistency to now in that they emphasized attacks on property.


When have there been riots in protest against Trump? All of the so called riots were in response to clear police brutality where it became clear that there was no due process in regards to how the police treated certain people. Not an excuse for the property destruction but a good explanation of why there would be when the police were holding property as more important than black lives. Not to mention the examples where these protests were escalated by the police themselves.

I can only see there being something like riots from the Left if there was an obvious cheating from Donald Trump that no one did anything to stop, like if the Democrats conceded to Trump's demand that because he was winning at some point during the counting that it was his win.


_________________
Through dream I travel, at lantern's call
To consume the flames of a kingdom's fall


ASPartOfMe
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 25 Aug 2013
Age: 66
Gender: Male
Posts: 34,480
Location: Long Island, New York

11 Jan 2021, 6:43 am

Bradleigh wrote:
ASPartOfMe wrote:
What could the left do to escalate? More complaining about unfairness of the electoral college, More impeachment attempts, more protests and riots all actions in that in this scenario had failed, more cancel culture? How could they go beyond riots in nearly every city and mostly peaceful protests in nearly every locale big and small?. Bigger weapons maybe. As far as those ancient bombings there is a consistency to now in that they emphasized attacks on property.


When have there been riots in protest against Trump? All of the so called riots were in response to clear police brutality where it became clear that there was no due process in regards to how the police treated certain people. Not an excuse for the property destruction but a good explanation of why there would be when the police were holding property as more important than black lives. Not to mention the examples where these protests were escalated by the police themselves.

I can only see there being something like riots from the Left if there was an obvious cheating from Donald Trump that no one did anything to stop, like if the Democrats conceded to Trump's demand that because he was winning at some point during the counting that it was his win.


Ugly, bloody scenes in San Jose as protesters attack Trump supporters outside rally
Quote:
Protests outside a Donald Trump rally in downtown San Jose spun out of control Thursday night when some demonstrators attacked the candidate’s supporters.

Protesters jumped on cars, pelted Trump supporters with eggs and water balloons, snatched signs and stole “Make America Great” hats off supporters’ heads before burning the hats and snapping selfies with the charred remains.

Several people were caught on camera punching Trump supporters. At least one attacker was arrested, according to CNN, although police did not release much information.


Anti-Trump protests, some violent, erupt for 3rd night nationwide
Quote:
For the third night in a row, anti-Donald Trump demonstrators took to the streets in several big cities and on college campuses across the United States, including an outburst of smashed windows and a dumpster fire in Portland that police countered with pepper spray and flash-bang devices.

About 4,000 protesters assembled downtown late Thursday chanting “we reject the president-elect!” the Associated Press reported. Some among the crowd vandalized 19 cars at a dealership in Northeast Portland, according to a sales manager, Oregonlive.com reports. Protesters then headed west, over the Broadway Bridge and into the Pearl District, where the windows of several businesses were smashed.


2016 Oakland riots
Quote:
On November 9–12, 2016, protests occurred in Oakland, California against the election of Donald Trump. While originally peaceful, these protests became violent, with protesters lighting trash cans and cars and a building on fire and smashing store windows and throwing bottles at police. Thirty protesters were arrested, and three officers were injured.


Protesters caused thousands in damage at Trump Tower: prosecutors
Quote:
Environmental activists who raised a banner at Trump Tower in protest of President Donald Trump's agenda caused thousands of dollars in damage to the River North skyscraper, according to prosecutors.

Four people appeared Sunday at the Leighton Criminal Court Building on felony charges after they were accused of hanging a Greenpeace banner with the words "resist" and "defend" from Trump Tower's 16th-terrace.


_________________
Professionally Identified and joined WP August 26, 2013
DSM 5: Autism Spectrum Disorder, DSM IV: Aspergers Moderate Severity

It is Autism Acceptance Month

“My autism is not a superpower. It also isn’t some kind of god-forsaken, endless fountain of suffering inflicted on my family. It’s just part of who I am as a person”. - Sara Luterman


Bradleigh
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 25 May 2008
Age: 33
Gender: Non-binary
Posts: 6,669
Location: Brisbane, Australia

11 Jan 2021, 7:26 am

One of those are about environmental activists, hardly representative of the Left at large. Another mentions that the protests were peaceful until some anarchists got involved, that the actual protestors were trying to tell to not cause the property damage from the anarchists that just wanted an excuse to cause damage.

Some of the others are less able to be defended against with violence, but kind of seem a bit vague about what was happening on both sides. And I seem to remember that this was around the time that Trump was calling Mexicans rapists, people were generally afraid that Trump rallies were pretty much open white supremacist events. Does not excuse the people getting violent though.


_________________
Through dream I travel, at lantern's call
To consume the flames of a kingdom's fall


kraftiekortie
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 4 Feb 2014
Gender: Male
Posts: 87,510
Location: Queens, NYC

11 Jan 2021, 7:36 am

In 1950, a group of Puerto Rican nationalists sought to, and failed, to assassinate President Harry Truman while he was staying at Blair House during White House renovations.



goldfish21
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 17 Feb 2013
Age: 41
Gender: Male
Posts: 22,612
Location: Vancouver, BC, Canada

13 Jan 2021, 4:39 am

White privilege.

There’s a meme on Facebook that accurately says something like “If those protestors were black they would be half way to heaven before they reached the steps of the Capitol.”


_________________
No :heart: for supporting trump. Because doing so is deplorable.


League_Girl
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 4 Feb 2010
Gender: Female
Posts: 27,205
Location: Pacific Northwest

13 Jan 2021, 4:17 pm

Anyone wonder if anyone ran from the capital hill area when they saw a swarm of Trump minions marching the streets?

If so, smart move, wouldn't want to be at the wrong place at the wrong time and be told you were part of you because your face got caught on camera.

I have gotten this bad feeling when I saw this huge Trump parade in my area. I would not go near them nor want to be in the crowd with them. Now I know why.


_________________
Son: Diagnosed w/anxiety and ADHD. Also academic delayed.

Daughter: NT, no diagnoses.


ASPartOfMe
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 25 Aug 2013
Age: 66
Gender: Male
Posts: 34,480
Location: Long Island, New York

14 Jan 2021, 5:35 am

kraftiekortie wrote:
In 1950, a group of Puerto Rican nationalists sought to, and failed, to assassinate President Harry Truman while he was staying at Blair House during White House renovations.


In 1954 Puerto Rican Nationalists did wound congressmen, one seriously in the House of Representatives.


_________________
Professionally Identified and joined WP August 26, 2013
DSM 5: Autism Spectrum Disorder, DSM IV: Aspergers Moderate Severity

It is Autism Acceptance Month

“My autism is not a superpower. It also isn’t some kind of god-forsaken, endless fountain of suffering inflicted on my family. It’s just part of who I am as a person”. - Sara Luterman


ASPartOfMe
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 25 Aug 2013
Age: 66
Gender: Male
Posts: 34,480
Location: Long Island, New York

16 Jan 2021, 4:29 am

Back on topic
Authorities are more than twice as likely to break up a left-wing protest than a right-wing protest. - FiveThirtyEight

Quote:
As images from Wednesday’s riot by pro-Trump extremists at the U.S. Capitol filled our TV screens and social media feeds, one thing was notably absent: the kind of confrontation between police and protesters that we saw during the Black Lives Matter protests last summer. Even though the Capitol mob was far more violent — and seditious — than the largely peaceful BLM demonstrators, police responded far less aggressively toward them than toward BLM protesters across the country. Researchers who track this sort of thing for a living say that fits a pattern.

Instead of National Guard troops being posted en masse around landmarks before a protest even began, we saw the Defense Department initially deny a request to send in troops — and that was after the Capitol had been breached. Instead of peaceful protesters being doused in tear gas, we saw a mob posing for selfies with police and being allowed to wander the corridors of power like they couldn’t decide whether they were invading the Capitol or touring it.

“It feels really unbelievable,” said Roudabeh Kishi, director of research and innovation with the nonprofit Armed Conflict Location & Event Data Project. But, she said, it’s also totally unsurprising.

That’s because the discrepancies we saw Wednesday are just another example of a trend Kishi’s team has been tracking for months as they collect data on protester and law enforcement interactions across America. “We see a different response to the right wing,” she said.

While protesters themselves have long perceived that police tend to crack down on left-wing protesters and align with those on the right wing, there hasn’t really been data to demonstrate that effect before, said Ed Maguire, a professor of criminology and criminal justice at Arizona State University and an expert on police and protester interactions.

But in 2020, Kishi’s ACLED — a data-reporting project that began documenting armed conflicts and protests in African nations — extended its work into the United States. Using information gathered from local media, NGOs, individual journalists and partner organizations, ACLED researchers have catalogued months of detailed information about protests, including when clashes with law enforcement have happened and the type of force used by police. “We don’t necessarily have information on the number of Black vs. white protesters … but we do have a larger view,” Kishi said. “How is law enforcement responding to demonstrations associated with the Black Lives Matter movement versus demonstrations by the right wing … in support of [a] president that may or may not involve organized armed illegal groups?”

Between May 1 and November 28, 2020, authorities were more than twice as likely to attempt to break up and disperse a left-wing protest1 than a right-wing2 one. And in those situations when law enforcement chose to intervene, they were more likely to use force — 34 percent of the time with right-wing protests compared with 51 percent of the time for the left. Given when this data was collected, it predominantly reflects a difference in how police respond to Black Lives Matter, compared with how they respond to anti-mask demonstrations, pro-Trump extremists, QAnon rallies, and militia groups.

The differences in intervention weren’t because BLM protests were particularly violent. ACLED found that 93 percent of the protests associated with BLM were entirely peaceful. “Even if we were to put those [7] percent of demonstrations aside and look purely at peaceful [BLM protests], we are seeing a more heavy handed response [compared with right-wing protests],” Kishi said.

This data is new and limited, but it is in keeping with long-documented biases in how police think about and treat Black people compared with white people, and with research that shows police and military personnel overlapping significantly with the same far-right groups they treat preferentially.

It is also in keeping with how different groups of protesters perceive the situation themselves, Maguire said. In his years spent traveling to protests and embedding in crowds to observe and document police and protester interactions, he has interviewed protesters extensively. “Protesters on the left virtually universally believe that police are rougher on them. And protesters on the right almost universally believe police are on their side,” Maguire said.

The police, meanwhile, he worries, are likely to see criticism of a lack of force in D.C. and respond with more force elsewhere — whether that be against right-wing or left-wing groups. “Every other police department facing an angry crowd will be concerned about being overrun, and overcorrecting in response to that concern may lead to overly forceful, unconstitutional responses.”

This post is mostly theorizing:
This article again makes conclusions based on limited data about certain things. It did break some new useful ground in documenting perceptions.

I would like to theorize about perceptions and unequal treatment. The article noted 7 percent of BLM associated protests were violent. The obvious conclusion is the discrepancy is if not all about racism pretty damn close to being all about racism. That is a pretty obvious conclusion based on history and personal experiences of most people. Blacks most of all but I grew up in a neighborhood of cops and firemen back in the 60s and 70s and overt racism was common.

The article did not mention what percentage of MAGA protests were violent nor how many MAGA protests there were. There were BLM-associated protests in over 2,000 cities. For arguments, sake let assume there were 5,000 BLM protests(there were protests in 2,000 cities and multiple protests in most of them) Let's assume there were 500 MAGA ones. Let's assume 20 percent of the MAGA protests were violent. If that is true comes out to 100 MAGA riots. vs 350 BLM associated riots. If this is true prior to the Capital Hill insurrection police were going to expect BLM protests to have more of a chance of becoming riots than MAGA ones. If true that does not at all exclude racism, it would probably enhance existing racist perceptions.

The above is why the number of right-wing protests vs left wing and percentage of left violent protests vs right violent needs to be looked at more.


_________________
Professionally Identified and joined WP August 26, 2013
DSM 5: Autism Spectrum Disorder, DSM IV: Aspergers Moderate Severity

It is Autism Acceptance Month

“My autism is not a superpower. It also isn’t some kind of god-forsaken, endless fountain of suffering inflicted on my family. It’s just part of who I am as a person”. - Sara Luterman


Last edited by ASPartOfMe on 16 Jan 2021, 7:09 am, edited 3 times in total.

Sweetleaf
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 6 Jan 2011
Age: 34
Gender: Female
Posts: 34,470
Location: Somewhere in Colorado

16 Jan 2021, 4:37 am

well...when did the left wing decide to storm the capital...oh yeah we didn't. Also let those freaking traitors try and storm the capital again. Now it is protected with military force so yeah good luck 'overthrowing' that no need for counter protestors, just let the military deal with them.

Me and my boyfriend will be staying well away from our state capital that day for sure.


_________________
We won't go back.


ASPartOfMe
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 25 Aug 2013
Age: 66
Gender: Male
Posts: 34,480
Location: Long Island, New York

16 Jan 2021, 5:27 am

Sweetleaf wrote:
well...when did the left wing decide to storm the capital...oh yeah we didn't. Also let those freaking traitors try and storm the capital again. Now it is protected with military force so yeah good luck 'overthrowing' that no need for counter protestors, just let the military deal with them.

Me and my boyfriend will be staying well away from our state capital that day for sure.

Despite all the conspiracy theories about Antifa false flag the left was smart and stayed away and let the MAGA's do all the work for them.

I would stay away from local government offices and make sure you are stocked up.
Atomwaffen Division
Quote:
Atomwaffen Division has engaged in several mass murder plots, plans to cripple public water systems and destroy parts of the Continental U.S. power transmission grid. Atomwaffen has also been accused of planning to blow up nuclear plants in order to cause nuclear meltdowns.


_________________
Professionally Identified and joined WP August 26, 2013
DSM 5: Autism Spectrum Disorder, DSM IV: Aspergers Moderate Severity

It is Autism Acceptance Month

“My autism is not a superpower. It also isn’t some kind of god-forsaken, endless fountain of suffering inflicted on my family. It’s just part of who I am as a person”. - Sara Luterman


Pepe
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 11 Jun 2013
Gender: Non-binary
Posts: 26,635
Location: Australia

16 Jan 2021, 5:34 am

League_Girl wrote:
Anyone wonder if anyone ran from the capital hill area when they saw a swarm of Trump minions marching the streets?

If so, smart move, wouldn't want to be at the wrong place at the wrong time and be told you were part of you because your face got caught on camera.

I have gotten this bad feeling when I saw this huge Trump parade in my area. I would not go near them nor want to be in the crowd with them. Now I know why.


I would run from both the right or the left protesters.

BTW, Interesting how some people thought none of the Capitol Hill protesters would face consequences.