Lies and the harm they can do

Post Reply New Topic

Watching what happened in Washington D.C. on January 6 - an actual coup attempt - and then dropping by Wrongplanet as a diversion, I see one anti-therapist screed by a deluded, and poorly coping, forum participant. I am suddenly gob-smacked, thinking that just like social media platforms are cracking down (belatedly) on lies propounded cynically by certain politicians and nut jobs, maybe we should be dumping those who promote lies or untruths or unfounded theories that stand to harm a lot of people.

Probably I'll be dumped instead, or this thread. Won't be the first time! I am just tired of having to be live-and-let-live when I see passionately lying individuals. It doesn't matter what your convictions are - if they aren't supported by facts or the opinions of knowledgeable people, you ought to second guess yourself.

Rant over.

I agree. This is why I take most forum posts with a grain of salt, plus the whole ranting against neurotypicals that's common here. Yes, some people are jerks. Some are not. Despite what you might see only on the surface, neurotypicals have to put up with crap from everyday life too.

Not only that, but people on the spectrum are prone to taking things literally and without a second thought, so to have someone rant on and give advice on a topic they're not very knowledgeable on and spread false information makes things all the worse for people trying to seek legitimate help.

Last edited by JP210168 on 16 Jan 2021, 12:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.

This year certainly has shown how lies can actually kill people.

[rant]

If the Rules and moderators would allow it, I would personally ban five specific individuals for being a$$holes in their support of the soon-to-be-previous Presidential administration.  Not only do they spread lies, but their denial of the truth makes it difficult for the rest of us to carry on reasoned and thoughtful conversations.

[/rant]

I don't care for the NT bashing that goes on around here. I've had some NTs in my life who actually stuck up for me.

When I saw this thread, I was reminded of the malicious gossip that ruined my chances in a community.

The trouble with censorship is that, starting with the very best intentions, it winds up working for the the best persuaders, not the best provers. Every new idea starts as heresy, as Galileo discovered. The status quo always gets majority support, but it can only improve it it tolerates dissent, and has the patience to filter out a few gems from the sludge.

There is also the problem that these "liars" are telling the truth as they perceive it, even if they are parroting the ideas of a deliberate liar. We will always have major disagreements over things like religion; it is better to live and let live than to try to legislate the truth. That only convinces the censored that they are both correct and abused.

Agreed, when it comes to this kind of thing.

Who are they?

I totally agree with you.

I've been dipping in and out of that trying to post positive experiences to counteract the negativity, but it's just a few raindrops in the ocean.

The young man had a bad experience. I believe him. But spreading the idea that all therapy is bad and you should lie to get yourself through it is horrific. It helped me so much.

There needs to be more understanding of what therapy is. I've seen so many, "I had therapy and my therapist didn't help me get a girlfriend" comments I despair. That's not the point.

I agree also, but all the nutjobs I know are sure that their facts and knowledgeable people's opinions are correct, and that mine are mistaken. I have had a running, civil debate with a flat-earther, and for him, everything starts with the Bible, and the Biblical description of the moon as a light, not a reflector. No amount of observation will convince him. I suggested many easy, cheap experiments that he would not do. Finally, he bought an expensive, barely suitable camera, and saw the curve. Then he went back on a day when he could see a mirage instead, and was happy again.

The brain is a pattern-finding device, able to work with limited data. The trouble is, once we have a pattern in mind, we are usually quick to reject anything that does not fit our pattern, even if we have to do that constantly. The initial choice of a pattern is heavily influenced by self-interest as well, which can really embed it firmly.

nice signature, I like and agree with it.

Yeah, that makes sense. But to be so strongly obsessed with a pattern that you reject actual scientific knowledge... I mean, I do have spiritual beliefs, but they don't interfere with my love of science.

It isn't just religion blocking perception. A friend of mine would drive home by turning at a corner where an old store was slowly falling to ruin. He kept "seeing" it there for weeks after it burned down - he had to really look hard to change his memory of the site.
When Spaniards first arrived in the Caribbean, the locals had no idea where they had come from, until a Shaman finally saw their ship in plain sight, anchored in a bay that had never held anything of interest before. It took a long time for the novel image to really emerge and overwrite his memories, beginning with a mere shimmering.

Robert Persig was a consummate logician, but in "Lila" he tells of navigating a small sailboat into a harbour at night. He thought he was having more trouble than usual keeping a course, and that one navigation buoy was missing, but he made it to the wharf without incident. There, he learned he was in the wrong city.

That makes sense. I have trouble with changing my patterns sometimes too. Although that last one sounds funny (it isn't of course, it's quite serious).

Looking for me?

I get it. You had a good experience with therapy, because you were good at it from the get-go. You knew how to get the therapist to help you. But in order to make that happen, you have to know now to navigate therapy in the first place. Which means telling the therapist the right things at the right time in the right tone of voice in the right context. That's a lot to memorize, even for us aspies. Somehow, you were able to do everything correctly; props to you for that. And your therapist responded in kind and helped you, thus doing everything right too. But for the rest of us, extra hints for navigating therapy can be a godsend.

I disagree with "therapist didn't help me get a girlfriend". Back in 2002, one psychologist in New York actually tried that! He operated a service called TheraDate, where he worked as a matchmaker, and set up therapy patients on dates with each other, based on their patient chart similarities. (Given the time period, it was for straight people only.) His intentions were good and ingenious. He believed that a real romantic relationship was gonna be more beneficial for patients than repetitive sessions of talking about feelings in a sterile office.

Sadly, the service folded very quickly. Using a matchmaking service carried a heavy stigma back then. Ethical issues arose as well, due to the possible "dual relationship" of a therapist also working with a matchmaker. So the demand never reached critical mass. It'd be really interesting how TheraDate 2.0 can pan out today.

I also agree with BeaArthur. I'd also like to bring forth that not all therapists are bad. I had a good shrink for two years recently. There are people who have bad experiences in therapy. I think the best thing we can do is learn from each other and get along.