Interesting, numerous "coincidences" associated with Quran

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What are "coincidences" associated with original Quran's text in your opinion?
Results of "mere mathematical chance", just random dependencies 81%  81%  [ 13 ]
Signs from God 0%  0%  [ 0 ]
Tricks of one or more evil beings (like demons) 6%  6%  [ 1 ]
Something "made" by space aliens, extraterrestrials 0%  0%  [ 0 ]
Something other... 13%  13%  [ 2 ]
Total votes : 16

nca14
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21 Jan 2021, 2:48 pm

Important message: I do not want to deprave anyone by that topic and its content!

In the Internet I read quite a lot about something which looks "pretty unbelievable" for me - a very large number of dependencies, "coincidences", "synchronicities" associated with original Arabic text of The Quran (book considered holy by Muslims) which are ofter associated with numbers or linguistics (letters, words etc.).

I was raised as a Catholic and The Quran denies some of Catholic dogmas like Trinity or Incarnation. From Catholic perspective, converting from Catholicism to Islam is a mortal sin against faith which causes eternal damnation if not repented before death.

An example of Quran-based "coincidence":
- first chapter of The Quran has 7 verses, 29 words and 139 letters (in original Arabic text), numbers: 7, 29, 139 are additive prime numbers (not just primes, but primes which have sums of digits in it which are also prime numbers) - 7 = 7, 2+9 = 11, 1+3+9 = 13 -> we have 7, 11, 13 now,
- triplet: 7, 11, 13 has sum of numbers 31 (7+11+13) and sums of digits in it 13 (7+1+1+1+3) and 13 and 31 are prime numbers and one of them is the "mirror image" of another,
- number forming by concatenation of numbers 7, 29, 139 - 729139 - is an additive prime number and number formed by concatenation of numbers: 139, 29, 7 (in such a sequence - from the largest to the smallest) - 139297 - is also an additive prime number.



The_Face_of_Boo
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21 Jan 2021, 4:06 pm

These numbers tricks and 'coincidences' can be found and crafted in any large book, it doesn't have to be "holy".

I am ex-muslim btw, but been atheist for more than 20 years I guess?

Quote:
I was raised as a Catholic and The Quran denies some of Catholic dogmas like Trinity or Incarnation.


Islam originated from a non-Trinitarian Jewish-Christian sect called the Ebionites; Mohammad's first wife was one of them; and her cousin was the chief priest of this sect and was her and Mohammad's spiritual mentor. This sect followed a HEBREW Gospel, called the Gospel of the Ebionites, and not a Greek Gospel. Islam only recognize the Hebrew Gospels and Gospel of Barnabas because they both refuse Jesus' divinity.

Islam didn't start with Mohammad; it's even somehow older than that; it is something that evolved in parallel with Trinitarian Christianity; how else do you think it expanded so fast? Because non-Trinitarian "Christianity" was popular in that area back then; and Islam is the continuation of it.



theprisoner
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21 Jan 2021, 4:17 pm

I find the writings of genuine schizophrenics, quite interesting, you get angles and perspectives on things that most people would never see. they connect things in a very unique way. A deranged pattern recognition system sometimes is an amazing thing to behold.


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21 Jan 2021, 4:18 pm

Well, there is a similar tradition in Judaism.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bible_code

Not to mention numerous claims about hidden/encrypted messages based on all sorts of other texts throughout history.

Here is a passage from Moby Dick predicting the assassination of Gandhi:

Image
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bible_cod ... ther_texts

Oh, and no one actually has the *original* Arabic text of the Quran. All contemporary versions of the Quran are copies based on previous texts which are now lost, so we don't actually know how the original looked like or if the copyists made translation errors and/or deliberate changes to the manuscripts.

All we have are approximately 5 pages in total from Surah 18-20 in the Birmingham Quran Manuscript, which may (or may not) have been written down in the period when the Quran was (supposedly) composed.

...jk, it's space aliens, of course.



naturalplastic
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21 Jan 2021, 4:28 pm

The experts cant even agree on what the Koran says that male martyrs get in the after life.

Forty nine virgins. Or 49 grapes!

Women martyrs of course get ...an eternal shopping spree at the divine shoe store in the sky.



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21 Jan 2021, 4:50 pm

Numerology ... Kabbala ... Webcomics ... all amusing to read, but totally without substance.


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21 Jan 2021, 9:02 pm

Finding Meaning And Purpose in Life

It's What Humans Do And It Appears

You Find A Lot of Meaning And Purpose

In Numbers and Mathematics; So, Obviously

What You See and Value As Important

Others May Not;

Yet, It's How

it Makes You Sense And

Feel and How it Drives

Your Life That Counts Most;

i found it AMuSinG, When i Tried

One of Those 'Numerology Calculators'

Online and my Life Challenges Based on

Birth Date of 6.6.60 and Sir Name Came Out

As A Result Like A One Armed Bandit And Jackpot

Hitting 0 For Free Will At Birth; And Three Consecutive
1's After that for Each Life Challenge Only To Affirm What

i Wanted To Do In Life; Do It All Like Writing An Epic Longest
Long Form Poem in the History of Humankind at 8.9 MiLLioN
Words in 89 Months; And 14,244 Miles of Public Dance in That
Distance of Months More Than Half the Distance around the Globe
Starting Out At Age 53, Hehe and Just in Case ya missed the Strength
Part of This Non-Fictional Story in Numbers; Leg Pressing Up to 1520
Pounds At 60 Years-Old too; Or True, According to the Free Will of 0
At Birth in Challenge; Just Hanging-Out Serving Shoes At A Military Bowling

Center for a Couple of Decades Skating thru GS-5 Pay for Long enough to
Get an Equivalent Pay Grade of GS-9 Thru 11 the Last 3 Years With Enough
Money in Retirement to continue doing Basically Nothing For the Rest of my

Life Hanging
Out Skating Free if that is

What i Care to Do Next...

Meh, My Father's Class Motto
Was, "Don't Do Today What You
Can Do Tomorrow"; And His Identical
Twin Brother Ted to First Father Fred Was
More Precisely Shakespeare — 'I dare do all that
may become a man; Who dares do more, is none'

Here's A thing, it Ain't the Form that Counts the Most;

The Real Substance is the Emotions And Senses That Drive

Us Forward That Motivate Us To Do Whatever we Do Next...

That

no

one
Else

Has Ever Done

Before; Or Perhaps

You Never Find Any Powerful

Emotions and Senses And do the

Same Dam Thing Your Entire Life...

Whatever Works My Friend, Be Amazing, one Life to Live now...

Other Than That Placebo Works; Doesn't Matter if it Comes From
A Sugar Pill, An Astrology Report, A Fortune Cookie, or Prayers;

Placebo When Believed Drives The Subconscious Mind Beyond
Measure For Healing Up to Disorders That Are Previously Considered
Life Threatening into the Files of Medical Cabinets of Unexplained remission...

And The Nocebo Effect for 'Sour Pusses' Will Bring Harm, Illness, And Premature Death True...

Do Believe Whatever It takes

And Base the Success on

What You Believe

On Effects

You Will Measure

Empirically By Number too...

The Most Predictably Loving Persons
i know; Both of them Are Muslim Devout
As Such; Something About the Quran Works
for them; Just Like Something About Christianity
When Viewed thru Loving Lens Drives Those Folks

iN Loving
All of Human
Beings and Nature Same...

'Life is a Rorschach Test'

'Alan Watts' Agrees Too...

Some Folks 'Hear' The Music
of Heaven; Dance And Sing
Within Giving And Sharing
Freer Across A Life Span
Than Ever Before And

Holy

Cr8p

Others Fall
to CueAnon Conspiracy
Theories As they Are Wired
To See More of the Dark of Life;
Likely Thru Social Neglect and
Abuse Across Their Lifespan Now....

You Seem Like a Nice Person Who

Wouldn't Harm a Fly; and that is the only way
i for one am ever gonna Judge You as Most successful of all...

In Fact, i Remember You From Your Last Thread; You are Just
About the Person with the Least Darkness of Soul i've ever Felt on this Site

Not Unlike

My Friends

who Love The

Quran it appears

Your 'Religion of Numbers' is working
to make You Human enough not to harm others now..

Bravo

Just

Bravo

Kindness Goes

So much Further

For A Truly Happy Life...

And That's why i was most

Successful passing out shoes

At A Military Bowling Center

Making People Happy

Without Any

Words or

Dance

At All; Just
A Big Smile
With Teeth And
Eyes That said

Every Person is the Face of God For Real...

Again, Life is a Rorschach Test; Sadly, i See Dead

People Walking around this

Way

in Metaphor

of Course in Nocebo Effect....

Sadly, It Seems They Failed Life's Test Now...

Yet,

Just

From 'the

Painting' i see...

All or Nothing; All For me.... Now And Then;
And Yes, Seeing Nothing Much too of Value True...


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The_Face_of_Boo
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23 Jan 2021, 2:51 pm

GGPViper wrote:
Well, there is a similar tradition in Judaism.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bible_code

Not to mention numerous claims about hidden/encrypted messages based on all sorts of other texts throughout history.

Here is a passage from Moby Dick predicting the assassination of Gandhi:

Image
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bible_cod ... ther_texts

Oh, and no one actually has the *original* Arabic text of the Quran. All contemporary versions of the Quran are copies based on previous texts which are now lost, so we don't actually know how the original looked like or if the copyists made translation errors and/or deliberate changes to the manuscripts.

All we have are approximately 5 pages in total from Surah 18-20 in the Birmingham Quran Manuscript, which may (or may not) have been written down in the period when the Quran was (supposedly) composed.

...jk, it's space aliens, of course.


The contemporary Quran is the Cairo version.



The_Face_of_Boo
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23 Jan 2021, 2:53 pm

naturalplastic wrote:
The experts cant even agree on what the Koran says that male martyrs get in the after life.

Forty nine virgins. Or 49 grapes!

Women martyrs of course get ...an eternal shopping spree at the divine shoe store in the sky.


Oh....I wanna see the face of these suiciders if all what they get is ....grapes. lol



madbutnotmad
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23 Jan 2021, 3:22 pm

Ancient religions that started around this period likely were highly influenced by maths, as, during this time,
astrology was even more important than it is today.

Astrology was the gateway to travel and those who understood Astrology certainly were revered.
Astrology includes calculations taken from various areas of maths.

Predating Islam, and even Judaism, were more primitive systems of belief which often included magical thinking beliefs.
I believe Numerology and belief in magic/k go hand in hand, perhaps also with Astrology.

So, if you do not consider the writing in the Quran to be the words of God, via Archangel Gabriel, and latter passed to the Prophet Muhammad, but instead you believe the Quran to be the works of a mortal man.

Then in context of the time (609-632 AC) and influences on culture (astrology, ancient religious beliefs including magic/k etc., I think it would be understandable for the work to include some numerology elements.

Not necessarily because the Prophet Muhammad considered numbers to have magic powers, but because he thought the numbers were holy in some way? (although perhaps there isn't that much difference between the two).

So, the numerology aspects found in the book may or may not be intentional.
That's always the problem with such books of antiquity, you can never ask the author to clarify.

So a question that will never likely be answered.



nca14
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26 Oct 2021, 1:03 pm

There is a theory that the Quran verses 41:9-12 tell about the age of Universe (Big Bang) and formation of planet Earth because this passage was interpreted as having told that the Earth was formed after two thirds of the time from the Big Bang to our times.

41:9 Say, "Do you indeed disbelieve in He who created the earth in two days and attribute to Him equals? That is the Lord of the worlds."
41:10 And He placed on the earth firmly set mountains over its surface, and He blessed it and determined therein its [creatures'] sustenance in four days without distinction - for [the information] of those who ask.
41:11 Then He directed Himself to the heaven while it was smoke and said to it and to the earth, "Come [into being], willingly or by compulsion." They said, "We have come willingly."
41:12 And He completed them as seven heavens within two days and inspired in each heaven its command. And We adorned the nearest heaven with lamps and as protection. That is the determination of the Exalted in Might, the Knowing.

Two days from 41:9 - from ca. 4 550 000 000 ybp to now (since formation of the planet Earth to our times)
Four days from 41:10 - from ca. 13 800 000 000 ybp to ca. 4 550 000 000 ybp (the verse is thought to be about the matter from which the planet Earth was formed, its existence from time of the Big Bang to the time of the formation of the planet Earth at the beginning of the existence of the Solar System)
Two days from 41:12 - from ca. 4 550 000 000 ybp to now (the verse can be thought as saying about seven layers of the Earth's atmosphere)



Last edited by nca14 on 26 Oct 2021, 1:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Fnord
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26 Oct 2021, 1:10 pm

Quote:
There is a  theory  belief that the Quran verses 41:9-12 tell about the age of Universe (Big Bang) and formation of planet Earth because this passage was interpreted as having told that the Earth was formed after two thirds of the time from the Big Bang to our times.
There.  Corrected it for you.

Theories are provable, and have been proven.

Hypotheses may be provable, but have not yet been proven.

Beliefs prove nothing.



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26 Oct 2021, 4:06 pm



Hmm, the Placebo
Effect Proves Just
How Powerful Belief

Will Come To Be As Far
As Potentially Putting So-Called
Incurable Disease At the Extreme

of the Placebo Powerful Effect, in the
Drawers of Incurable Illness Gone into

Remission

By Only

An Explanation

Of Forces Beyond
'Normal Empirical Measurement'...

Of Course, if one Truly Believes in the
Teachings of Jesus of Nazareth, The Dude
And Not Some Myth, Among Others with
Similar Teachings Through the Ages More
Than A Mouth Piece With Lips, One Understands

Through ACTUAL Practice, The Amazing Effects that
Come Naturally With the Power of Loving Faith's Belief

(Of Course, A Full Synergy of Healing Bio-Electrical-
Neurochemical-Neurohormonal Associated Ingredients

And Processes in Synergy Are Involved)

Are Real For Instance Even Science Shows

i Will Imagine Exercising

my Arm in A Cast

And Sure Enough

That Arm Will Not
Atrophy Nearly As
Much As A Control Group For Real;

Yes, 'Mind Over Matter' As There is Really
No Way to Empirically Measure How Consciousness

Works As A Discretely Measured Process; However What
We Will Do Empirically Is Measure The Amazing Effects

of What

The Powerful

Force of Belief Will Bring;

Faith Beyond Words, Love Put into the Practice of Belief...

Of Course This is only Word Salad, For Those With No Actual
Practice in Experience; Yet The Empirical Results Are Irrefutable....

Belief, Faith, Hope, Love Are All Feeling And Sensory Forces That

Are Indeed

Healing,

Joyful,

Inspiring For
All In Moving,
Connecting, Co-Creating
Ways; Those Who Materially
Reduce the Energy Into Only Words

Are Only Living

In the Shell

Of A Once

Living

Sea Creature
That Is Yet to Actually Live...



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nca14
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04 Dec 2021, 3:02 pm

I have thoughts which say that Quran-based religions are the religions in which the best miracles made by God are inconceivable "synchronicities" and definitely not unconditional and interestless Love and Goodness. My "mentality" has thoughts that shocking Quran's "synchronicities" are the best cunning tricks of Satan in entire history of Creation. My "mentality" could think: "Islam is the religion of "synchronicities", not the religion of Love, Goodness and Beauty.

"Synchronicities" of Quran can be "extremely intriguing" for my mind. They are "hard to describe", they are so much improbable by just the law of probability.

My "mentality" has the fear that Quran is in fact from God (and "synchronicities" associated with its original text are very important proofs of it) and that if I will not convert into Quran's religion, I will be tortured (probably without end) or at least annihilated - that I certainly will not live in comfort and bliss without end as someone saved by God.



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04 Dec 2021, 3:24 pm

I declare jihad on numerology...


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nca14
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15 Oct 2022, 9:50 am

Quran does not believe in personal God, Quran does not believe that God is a person, and does not believe that Deity has emotions and feelings (of any sort or only human ones?), Quran believes (or at least appears to believe?) that God is not sentient and can not feel any pleasure, joy, happiness...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Personal_god - fragments with own markings - very important:

Quote:
A personal god, or personal goddess, is a deity who can be related to as a person, instead of as an impersonal force, such as the Absolute, "the All", or the "Ground of Being".

Quote:
Islam rejects the doctrine of the Incarnation and the notion of a personal god as anthropomorphic, because it is seen as demeaning to the transcendence of God. The Qur'an prescribes the fundamental transcendental criterion in the following verse: "There is nothing whatever like Him" [Qur'an 42:11]. Therefore, Islam strictly rejects all forms of anthropomorphism and anthropopathism of the concept of God, and thus categorically rejects the Christian concept of the Trinity or division of persons in the Godhead.

Islamic theology confirms that Allah (God) has no body, no gender (neither male nor female), and there is absolutely nothing like Him in any way whatsoever. However, due to grammatical limitation in the Arabic language, masculinity is the default grammatical gender if the noun is not specifically feminine. But this does not apply to the word "Allah," because according to Islamic theology Allah has no gender. Allah is also a singular noun and cannot have a plural form. The "We" used in the Qur'an in numerous places in the context of God is used only as the "Royal We" as has been a tradition in most of other languages. It is a feature of literary style in Arabic that a person may refer to himself by the pronoun nahnu (we) for respect or glorification. Allah is a unique name in Arabic that cannot be used for anyone, which mostly is not the case in other languages; for instance, writing "god" with a small "g" is allowed to denote various deities. There is nothing that can be used as a similitude or for the purpose of comparison to Allah even in allegorical terms because nothing can be compared with Him. Thus, the Qur'an says: "Do you know any similar (or anyone else having the same Name or attributes/qualities, which belong) to Him?" [Qur'an 19:65]. According to mainstream theological accounts, Allah is the creator of everything that exists and transcends spatial and temporal bounds. He has neither any beginnings nor any end and remains beyond the bounds of human comprehension and perceptions. This has been described in the Qur'an at various places, such as the following: "He knows (all) that is before them and (all) that is behind them (their past and future, and whatever of intentions, speech, or actions they have left behind), whereas they cannot comprehend Him with their knowledge." [Qur'an 20:110]

In one of the most comprehensive descriptions – as revealed in Surat al-Ikhlas – the Qur'an says:

1. Say: He, Allah, is Ahad (the Unique One of Absolute Oneness, who is indivisible in nature, who is unique in His essence, attributes, names and acts, the One who has no second, no associate, no parents, no offspring, no peers, free from the concept of multiplicity, and far from conceptualization and limitation, and there is nothing like Him in any respect).

2. Allah is al-Samad (the Ultimate Source of all existence, the Uncaused Cause who created all things out of nothing, who is eternal, absolute, immutable, perfect, complete, essential, independent, and self-sufficient; Who does not need to eat or drink, sleep or rest; Who needs nothing while all of creation is in absolute need of Him; the one eternally and constantly required and sought, depended upon by all existence and to whom all matters will ultimately return).

3. He begets not, nor is He begotten (He is Unborn and Uncreated, has no parents, wife or offspring).

4. And there is none comparable (equal, equivalent or similar) to Him.

In this context, the masculinity of huwa (he) with respect to Allah is unmistakably a purely grammatical masculinity without even a hint of anthropomorphism. The Maliki scholar Ibrahim al-Laqqani (d. 1041/1631) said in his book, Jawharat al-Tawhid (The Gem of Monotheism), that: "Any text that leads one to imagine the similitude of Allah to His created beings, should be treated either through ta'wil or tafwid and exalt Allah the Almighty above His creation."

The Hanafi jurist and theologian al-Tahawi (d. 321/933), wrote in his treatise on theology, commonly known as al-'Aqida al-Tahawiyya:
Quote:
He is exalted/transcendent beyond having limits, ends, organs, limbs and parts (literally: tools). The six directions do not encompass/contain Him like the rest of created things.


The six directions are: above, below, right, left, front and back. The above statement of al-Tahawi refutes the anthropomorphist's dogmas that imagine Allah has a physical body and human form, and being occupied in a place, direction or trajectory. 'Ali al-Qari (d. 1014/1606) in his Sharh al-Fiqh al-Akbar states: "Allah the Exalted is not in any place or space, nor is He subject to time, because both time and space are amongst His creations. He the Exalted was present in pre-existence and there was nothing of the creation with Him".

Al-Tahawi also stated that:
Whoever describes Allah even with a single human quality/attribute, has disbelieved/blasphemed. So whoever understands this, will take heed and refrain from such statements as those of disbelievers, and knows that Allah in His attributes is utterly unlike human beings.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anthropopathism - fragment with own markings:
Quote:
Anthropopathism (from Greek ἄνθρωπος anthropos, "human" and πάθος pathos, "suffering") is the attribution of human emotions, or the ascription of human feelings or passions to a non-human being, generally to a deity.