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KT67
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04 Feb 2021, 12:04 pm

Seriously.

What's the point of getting into arguments online?

I'm not going to convince an opponent and they're not going to convince me.

Best we can hope for is back and forth across a small political divide.

What actually shapes political thought imo is:
1 Who you mix with irl
2 Your life experiences
3 The life experiences of those you mix with irl esp when not chosen for political purposes so: a bigot might become either more or less homophobic on the coming out of their child
4 Occasionally what you read and sit with for a long time.

Political argument online just feels like a pissing contest that at best is annoying and at worse creates division & hatred between people who might otherwise have made pleasant acquaintances as things get into the personal territory.


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HeroOfHyrule
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04 Feb 2021, 12:42 pm

Because people are incapable of shutting their mouths and playing nice, to put it blunt.

I don't get into political discussions with almost anyone anymore since everyone has an agenda, even people you think are politically similar to you. People don't want to discuss things, most people get into political discussions to win. They hold their political opinions as fact, and if you deviate from that "fact" you need to be argued with since deviating from that "fact" makes you an idiot.


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aghogday
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04 Feb 2021, 1:25 pm

Why Get into An Argument at All...

People Like to Feel Bigger Than they
Currently Are; Competition Gives
Them That Shot of Neurochemical/
Neurohormone When They FEEL
SENSE they win in any Human

Competition, Yes For Real

To Increase Perceived
Status in Terms More

Materially Reductionist
of Dopamine, Serotonin;
Yes, The Empathy of Oxytocin
one Feels As A Team Ya Bond
With In Perceived Ideals and Facts

Is Winning A Game And Or A Debate at Hand...

Other Neurohormones include Epinephrine, Endorphins,
And Androgens And Estrogens; And Various Other Unnamed;
Or Perhaps Not Even Named Yet Neurohormones and Neurochemicals
As a Synergy of Feeling and Sensing Life We Individually Create Within...

So What's the Short

Cut to Not Having

To Feel/Sense We

Must Compete to Breathe...

AHa, Generate Our Own Neurochemicals,
Neurohormones Within; Become The Painter, Brush,
Paint, And Masterpeace Painting Within With Our Own

Hand

of Humanity's

Greatest Art A

Soul Complete With

All That's Left to Do is

Give and Share Freely

With Least Harm

Who Knows

Ya (me) Might Public Dance

Half Way Around the World

in Distance And More; Soon Write

A 9 MiLLioN Word Longest Long Form EPiC Poem

That is only A Compilation of Giving And Sharing

Free to Folks Around the World For Others to Benefit From Again...

Indeed, this Autotelic Flow of Heaven Within Generated As Art unto
Heaven Within to Give And Share Free to Others even More with Bountiful

Divine

And

Holy

Sacred

Frission That's

Real Putting the

Theism in Realism For

ReaL This Heaven Now Within to

Give and Share For Free totally

Backed Up By Science As REAL...

Meanwhile, 'Mozart'

And 'Van Gogh',

'Beethoven',

'Einstein',

And

'Da
Vinci',

Are

Still Playing

'Candy Crush'

With 'Forrest Gump;

At A Bus Stop to Win; Just totally

Lost from Most of Human Potential...

Key is Being Enough Within to do more now...

Not Having to compete; Just Becoming More of a Butterfly Flight Free...

i don't come here to debate.. i come here to listen to my Soul Dance and Sing

i 'Thought this

Was A Place

For Philosophers...

Not for What has been done before....

Thing is, i don't don't have to think to do this.. Just do it now in Effortless Ease of Flow..

Let the Dance And Song Do the Dancing And Singing; Give All the Worry A Vacation

Never Needing to come back...

Is it Possible:

Yes.

Is It Probable

From What i've Seen: sadly no...

Somethings Sadly Just don't change; Age to Age, in Life For Real Now

Where Winning is Only A Road to Losing Again to Win Never Complete Within....

It's like this; Ya (me) can/will go to School, for 19 Years, Work for Pay for 33 Years, Get
3 Degrees and Retire Financially Independent at Higher Levels of Federal Retirement Pay Before 50...

And Honestly
Be as Poor

As Ever more within

Now Then With Nothing

Real of Value Complete Then Now...

i didn't go to School, or Work, or

Pay for this Heaven; i earned Every Smile

With Another Smile Now For Free Doing More at ease than ever before....

Competing Against no one...

Just doing more

to Love

This Life for Real...

Just a Philosopher; like
This 'Wrong Planet Site' says not something

You Earn A Living With; Just A Way to truly

Breathe Free With Our Own Dance and Song

No Else Owns; Or Perhaps Have no Clue Why it's worth to do...

Heaven

Is sort

oF A Reward
Worth Keeping;
Yet only For Those who
Give And Share more now

With No Expect of Return Giving Sharing Freely Even more ...

Yet, Truly Breathing Complete Free Now Enough....

to Give
And Share

with

Least

Harm even Freely some
More Never Ending Story

Just Never Landing, Always Flying Higher;
Tight Rope Dance Song Even Higher; Endless
Metaphors Beyond Infinity; Human Imagination
Creativity and Loving Giving Sharing Freely Beyond Measure more...

What's A Difference
Between A 'Distance'

oF iNFiNiTY NoW...

We aRe

Creators oF NoW...

Hehe, Other than that
if Ya BREaTHE Deep

Enough, it's difficult

For others to Reach the Surface of 'the Ocean' to even see...

Quickest Way Never Ever to Get into a Silly Argument Wasting Precious Heaven Now...

Part and Parcel
Of A Journey
All Paths

Just

Eternal

Now Complete Enough for Real...


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VegetableMan
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04 Feb 2021, 1:35 pm

The point is to promote a "political belief " or "poltical agenda." Some see it as a crusade, upon which our very survival pivots. For others, perhaps the motivation is more ego-driven.

Whatever the case, it's a fruitless pursuit. Very rarely do the participants in such exchanges have a mind open enough to be be effected by new information.


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maycontainthunder
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04 Feb 2021, 1:49 pm

I've set myself the rule of not starting an argument online, there is just no point to it at all. I'll give my advice as I see it and if they don't agree with it that is their choice.


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Kipperbang
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04 Feb 2021, 2:00 pm

maycontainthunder wrote:
I've set myself the rule of not starting an argument online


no you haven't



maycontainthunder
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04 Feb 2021, 2:03 pm

Nice try, not happening! :jester:


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kraftiekortie
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04 Feb 2021, 2:04 pm

I try to avoid arguments at all costs.

I wish more people had the ability to have a decent discussion without getting mad all the time.



Kipperbang
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04 Feb 2021, 2:05 pm

maycontainthunder wrote:
Nice try, not happening! :jester:


it was worth a try :jester:



techstepgenr8tion
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04 Feb 2021, 2:24 pm

My interest has been more at picking at people's quality of argumentation - they don't have to agree with me. Even that seems like it's too high a bar in many cases though.


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VegetableMan
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04 Feb 2021, 2:29 pm

Sometimes you have to put up with with a lot of rigid thinking to find that one gem of a mind with whom you can connect and have meaningful conversations. It's worth the effort, despite the emotional toll it has on us.


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Jakki
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04 Feb 2021, 2:47 pm

Finding that gem and how it is cut defines the quality of that gem , hopefully it is an agreeable gem ?
Just for the sage of argument . :mrgreen:


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League_Girl
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04 Feb 2021, 3:11 pm

I see this "agenda" being thrown around and I always wonder "what agenda?" The agenda for advocating for human rights? The rights to allow trans people to have access to treatment for their dysphoria and trying to stop misinformation from being spread about it? To stop police brutality against black people? To get more people aware of systemic racism? People act like this is all a bad thing when they say they have an agenda. Trying to get people to understand drug addiction and it's not just a matter of making poor choices? Trying to get people to understand how to stop being poor is not that simple and no one chooses to be poor or there would be no poor people?

One thing that annoys me in political discussions is when people try to police my language about myself. I can call myself high functioning all I want. I am high functioning. What gives them the right to criticize anyone who decides to call themselves high functioning? Then they use that against you telling you you have no right to your views if you call yourself high functioning and you don't get to speak about disabilities.

And another thing, you can't change someone's mind, they will only change their mind if they decide to seek that information out themselves. Asking questions to be educated, lot of people are not going to try and educate you because many of them are burned out from willful ignorance and it's impossible to tell if someone is asking in good faith. I once joined a reddit sub called gendercriticaldebates I don't remember the exact name but anyway I subbed there thinking this was for gender critical to ask trans people in good faith to change their minds and for cis people to ask too and after I had been subbed there and after finding myself being downvoted and also getting into a couple arguments and reading other threads, I saw this was just a sub to argue with trans people about their existence and accuse them of gender stereotyping and being misoginysts. This was another TERF sub and they just wants to argue with trans people and not be educated, not try and be understanding, just argue to be right and make trans allies and trans people look stupid. That sub appears to be gone now. And I do think gender critical people will play dumb so you will contradict yourself, confuse you, make you look stupid. eg. "wait, so gender is like having nick names" deliberately missing the point. Then you will be exhausted, you give up and they "win." This was totally a bad faith sub.


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04 Feb 2021, 3:11 pm

I no longer have any confidence in political parties or individuals who proclaim to promote them.
I believe in this day and age of sophistication, political campaigns are really only about promoting an image
based on values that the politicians know are popular, all in order to convince the common people to vote them in,
so that they can then gain power and control over public spending and the many other areas that are related that they can then exploit for their own purposes while pretending to do a good job fulfilling their role to the people...
With the vast majority of the individuals involved in politics coming from colleges and families inherit wealth and power. Well, at least in the UK...

I now have little confidence in the words of politicians and now instead believe in humanitarianism.
Ideally following a humanitarian philosophy no matter what political party or power elite empowered individual wealds the power.



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04 Feb 2021, 3:37 pm

KT67 wrote:
Seriously.

What's the point of getting into arguments online?

I'm not going to convince an opponent and they're not going to convince me.

Best we can hope for is back and forth across a small political divide.

What actually shapes political thought imo is:
1 Who you mix with irl
2 Your life experiences
3 The life experiences of those you mix with irl esp when not chosen for political purposes so: a bigot might become either more or less homophobic on the coming out of their child
4 Occasionally what you read and sit with for a long time.

Political argument online just feels like a pissing contest that at best is annoying and at worse creates division & hatred between people who might otherwise have made pleasant acquaintances as things get into the personal territory.

What you say is true. I wish I knew why people engage in online shouting matches. When I bring up politics with others, we discuss. (Though people I know IRL are pretty chill.)


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KT67
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04 Feb 2021, 6:44 pm

maycontainthunder wrote:
I've set myself the rule of not starting an argument online, there is just no point to it at all. I'll give my advice as I see it and if they don't agree with it that is their choice.


Me too at least with politics.

And I'm increasingly agreeing with the second wave feminists who said 'the personal is the political'...

But just cos I set myself a new year's resolution two years running doesn't mean I don't get tempted/drawn back into it. Seems like once a month I have a week long argument with someone.

Then I have massive emotional turmoil over it. Stress over it. Get paranoid they will change everyone's mind if I don't win them over.

Normally it's when I think someone is likely to hurt someone else by their beliefs or is directly hurting me. So for eg if they say something bigoted or imply women 'don't know their own minds' etc.

On here, I hope I don't bother the mods, but if I see a rule being broken or possibly being broken, I report it. I used to get into arguments with people only to find out the account had been banned cos of trolling.

I just need to re-set the rule.


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