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ASPartOfMe
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15 Mar 2021, 8:23 am

Vatican says it will not bless same-sex unions, calling homosexuality a 'sin' and a 'choice'

Quote:
The Vatican said Monday that the Catholic Church would not bless same-sex unions, in a statement approved by Pope Francis that threatens to widen the chasm between the church and much of the LGBTQ community.

Explaining their decision in a lengthy note on Monday, the Holy See referred to homosexuality as a "choice," suggested it is sinful and said it "cannot be recognized as objectively ordered" to God's plans; a combative stance that is certain to disappoint millions of gay and lesbian Catholics around the world.
"The blessing of homosexual unions cannot be considered licit," the Vatican's top doctrinal office, the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, wrote in the statement.

God "does not and cannot bless sin," the statement added.

Pope Francis, who has frequently been praised for his welcoming tone towards LGBTQ people both within and outside the Church, approved the note.

“It is not licit to impart a blessing on relationships or partnerships, even stable, that involve sexual activity outside of marriage, as is the case of the unions between persons of the same sex," the statement said.

"[This decision] does not preclude the blessings given to individual persons with homosexual inclinations, who manifest the will to live in fidelity to the revealed plans of God as proposed by Church teaching."

Blessing same-sex unions, the Vatican said, would send a sign that the Catholic Church approves and encourages "a choice and a way of life that cannot be recognized as objectively ordered to the revealed plans of God."

The statement says that "God Himself never ceases to bless each of His pilgrim children in this world ... but he does not and cannot bless sin."

In a commentary provided with the statement, the Vatican stated that "the negative judgment on the blessing of unions of persons of the same sex does not imply a judgment on persons."


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kraftiekortie
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15 Mar 2021, 8:33 am

It's legal in many countries and many states.

I don't think people really care what the Pope says on this issue----except maybe a few devout Catholics.

Pope Francis, usually, is a pretty liberal-minded person. In this case, he's echoing Roman Catholic dogma.



Fnord
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15 Mar 2021, 8:38 am

This puts many hard-core evangelical protestants in a quandary: Do they finally admit that Catholics are "Good Guys" for coming down on same-sex marriages, or do they start supporting Queerfolk as victims of the RCC?


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magz
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15 Mar 2021, 8:40 am

Fnord wrote:
This puts many hard-core evangelical protestants in a quandary: Do they finally admit that Catholics are "Good Guys" for coming down on same-sex marriages, or do they start supporting Queerfolk as victims of the RCC?
I expect a split over this.

Not my war anymore, phew :roll:


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kraftiekortie
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15 Mar 2021, 8:42 am

I like Pope Francis. I liked John Paul II. They were basically good Popes.....but they have some opinions that are expected in Popes. I don't share in those opinions----but they're all right.

I don't care if either one of them 'blesses" me.

I doubt many gay people care, either.....

(I'm not gay, by the way :P )



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15 Mar 2021, 8:45 am

kraftiekortie wrote:
It's legal in many countries and many states.

I don't think people really care what the Pope says on this issue----except maybe a few devout Catholics.

Pope Francis, usually, is a pretty liberal-minded person. In this case, he's echoing Roman Catholic dogma.

I think gay couples' situation in RC teachings should be, logically, similar to remarried couples. The difference is, I think, in Western culture divorced people don't struggle for recognition of their rights and acceptance for their existence, so the "sin" teachings don't bother most of them (they do bother some, I personally know a couple not living together because of it).


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kraftiekortie
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15 Mar 2021, 8:48 am

I understand what you mean. Some people do take the Pope seriously, and I have to understand that.

Religion is a very complex thing----and it's full of contradictions. This is what makes people crazy sometimes on the basis of religion.



aghogday
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15 Mar 2021, 7:13 pm





"Vatican says it will not bless same-sex unions, calling homosexuality a 'sin' and a 'choice'"

Just Another 'Strike' Against the Catholic Church; Not Unlike Its Unwillingness to Require

Masks to Save the Sanctity of Breathing Life in all Masses. What This Does And It's A Fact

Is It Leads to Guilt of Children, of Parent's, Who Would Rather Kill Themselves Than Disappoint

Their Parents

to Believe

Their Child's

Nature of Behavior is 'Sin';

In this Case Homosexuality that

Is a Part of the Natural World that Simply

Provides Balance When Population Stresses Occur

As A Natural Part of Biology And Epigenetics As that Relatess

To Balance of the Environment As Whole; Ignorance as Usual

Harms,

Rapes,

Maims,

And Kills Telling A Human

Being they Are 'Sinful' For the

Nature of Who They Are in a Family

Where they Feel the Only Escape For Freedom

Is Death Not to Disappoint Those they count on and

Love Most For Support is Just Disgusting, Sinful, And The Face of Evil:

"The Church",

The Brick and

Mortar Structure,

With Very Little Real Nature of Human Loving Soul Free...

i Continue to Study it From A Safe Social Distance

Careful Not to Stain Any of my Soul Clothes When i Sit

There in The Future As An Anthropology Participant Observer in the Face of Ignorance

When the Pandemic Leaves And Continues to Be Replaced By the Face of Human Ignorance:

Yes, 'The Church';

The Brick

And Mortar

Golden Chalice

Golden Robe Idol Parts

With All the Words That Make it what it is same....

No, And i Don't Ignore it and Stay Silent As the Closest

Of Family Members Have Almost Fallen by the 'Trigger' of that Evil....

Keep Your 'Enemies'

Closest

To Protect

Family Members of the Future...

And Never Fall to 'Neon God's And the Sound of Silence'...

Obviously, the Congregation was threatening to 'Impeach' The

Pope Over His Approval of Civil Unions And Wanted to Keep Respect

of those who truly rule him 'below'....

Saint Augustine Started

The Marriage

to One Person

For A Lifetime Kick

After He Got His Fill

Of Engagements With

12 Year Old Girls And the such

And No Just Because it was Legal then

Doesn't Make it any less than Toxic Patriarchy

That Harms, That Rapes, That Maims and Kills No Different than

This Ignorance Now...

Some Folks Refuse

to Become More a

Part of Agape Love

For All Perhaps if they Forgot

About Worshipping a Man And Became

Love and Empathy For All They Might Rise up a Bit for Real as Love...

No Brick And Mortar;

No Golden Chalices;

No Golden Robes;

Not even

A Stitch

Of All The
CuLTuRaL

Clothes that Are Lies
At All Just Naked Truth, Love For All

With Least Harm Like not Driving Folks to Suicide....

i've Seen too Many Cold Faces of 'Priests' And Even Colder

Faces From their 'Bosses'; the only Thing that will Cure this is 'Humanity'...

The Church

Has Been

Dead for Many Years

THOUSANDS OF YEARS

As Far As Taking Care of all

The 'Brothers And Sisters'; the Least

And Most Vulnerable as of Course According

to 'Matthew' at Least The Penalty of NOT Doing

That is Sheep Getting Turned into Goats And Burned forever

Which of Course Can Only Be Described as Intent of 'Psychopathic Behavior'...

'My God' A Three Year Old Child Understands Love Better than 'Cold Psychopathic Intention'...

True a 3 Year

Old Pope With

Truly Open Arms

For All With No Lies

Could Do A Better Job of 'Love' (God) FOR REAL NOW.



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Last edited by aghogday on 15 Mar 2021, 7:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.

IsabellaLinton
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15 Mar 2021, 7:22 pm

The implications are devastating for Catholics who have yet to come out, who will face more discrimination and judgement from their parish as well as their families. I know several gay men who hid their homosexuality because of this fear. It led to them hating themselves and becoming victims of homophobic crime.

I belong to a traditional Anglican Church of England denomination, and we have always performed gay marriage equally with heterosexual. We don't judge or shun any human being for their orientation or ability. I wonder if this decision will affect the Anglican church? I certainly hope not.



naturalplastic
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15 Mar 2021, 7:43 pm

I like the current Pope.

I dont ask a Pope to stop being Catholic.

Ofcourse he is not going to officially endorse same sex marriage.

A Catholic WP member already branded him as being "satanic" (presumably for being the tiny bit liberal that he is).



KT67
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16 Mar 2021, 10:41 am

I like Francis on most things but I disagree with him on this.

It's why I don't bother going to church.

If God didn't want men to be trans, He wouldn't put us into 'female' bodies. If God didn't want homosexuality then He wouldn't create male beauty.*

The world is infinite and I hope one day there'll be a Church that recognises that.

Love isn't a sin. Even admiring beauty shouldn't be seen as a sin, something very puritan in that attitude imo.

*Don't give me 'it's for women' women don't tend to care about beauty, only about earning potential and muscles.


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aghogday
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16 Mar 2021, 12:18 pm

KT67 wrote:
I like Francis on most things but I disagree with him on this.

It's why I don't bother going to church.

If God didn't want men to be trans, He wouldn't put us into 'female' bodies. If God didn't want homosexuality then He wouldn't create male beauty.*

The world is infinite and I hope one day there'll be a Church that recognises that.

Love isn't a sin. Even admiring beauty shouldn't be seen as a sin, something very puritan in that attitude imo.

*Don't give me 'it's for women' women don't tend to care about beauty, only about earning potential and muscles.






Humans are Extremely Plastic in Terms
of Culture, Neuroplasticity, and Epigenetics

In How That Unpacks Our DNA From In the Womb to The Grave...

If That Wasn't True, i surely wouldn't Have Existed As A Weakest

Boy In School And A Strongest Leg Pressing 60-Year-Old-Dude

In the Military Gym; Nor A Boy Who Was Identified At 12 As A Girl

By A McDonald's Cashier And Taunted For His Pretty Eyelashes; Yes, Yes,

Green to Blue Changing Eyes, Bullied Verbally By 'First Baptist Kids' In the Bus on the Way to

Home From School; Threatened to Be Beat Up For Smiling in the Early 70's of Pre-Trump Town USA...

It's True, When i Was A Nice Poor Young Dude, the Girls Didn't Give me Much 'Loving' Attention...

It's True, When i Reached 53 And the Dance Hall Through Age 60

Happily Married to my Wife Who Still Who Has A Real Problem

Aging Close to Age 51; Now Still Fairest of Them All A Mirror

(me) Dare Not Rebuke Her Reflection, Hehe; Yeah,

When i Didn't Pay the Young Women

A Bit of Attention Dancing Fearlessly

With Empty Pockets i will add as i never

Bought Anyone A Drink or asked anyone to Dance in 6 Years

And 298 Dance Nights From Age 53 to almost 60, When Dam COVID-19

Shut the Place Down in the 'Heat' of Spring Break on 3.12.2020; Yet 'they'

Not Only Gifted me with their Hips for a Grinding Dance, Hehe;

Even Drinks that i Refused as they Literally Begged me for Whatever

Drugs i was on too as no one could Possibly be As High as Me without Drugs;

Oh Yeah, Yet YES i was ON Meditative Transcendent FLoWinG Dance That Has Been

Used that Way Freely Through Human Ancestry; Yes, Still Now; OMG, Shell-Shocked

As Some Young Women Said They Wished they Could Be Married to someone then just

Like me And OG me too; JUST for Dancing Fearless Free; of course, i Didn't Open my Mouth Yet and

Ruin Their Dreams With a 'Sheldon Cooper/John Nash' 'Ignore the Blonde' Bigger Professor Lecture;

Yet, You See, it's Cultural;

For There are Other

Countries Where

Women Are Delighted

Most With Men Who Have

Hearts As Soft as Flowers for You
See they were Gardened Differently;

They Don't See Man As God They See Love is Real....

It's All About

The 'Plastic';

Whatever Credit

Card A Human Soul is Gardened

Into; 'Things' or What Flies Forever

Deeper to Color All of what Life Comes to Be (LOVE/GOD);

Shall We Expect Any Religion That Worships a Man to Be Love

in Shorts

Or Long

Pants

or Even Naked Hanging on a Cross No...

Ah Yes, Yet there is 'Lakshmi' and All 'Her FRiEnDS'...

Is It Any Wonder 'the Beatles' Traveled To India and

Had Her At the Head of "Sgt Peppers Lonely HeARTS Club Band" in A Red Long Red Dress

On the Album Cover; in a Word No, For there is Beauty of Soul Love Wisdom Courage KINDNESS

STILL NoW That Defies Form; Essence Beyond All Penises and Vaginas and the Such alone...

Hehe,

Even

Grinding

Hips on the

Dance Hall Floor Standing

Lap Dances Given out Free of Charge...

It Depends On 'What' is Able to Be Stimulated Below or 'Beyond' (Hint: Love Agape)

OMG (Love) Sadly, The Church is A Stone Infant; Love is Forever And Colored always Differently NoW...

True, i 'KNoW' as i used to be 'A Stone Bust' on 'that Album Cover' too Just a Cold Solid Rock sitting still...

Half Way

Buried Then Like

Forever in a Second

Dead in a Living (Hell)

Burial Ground

Never Breathing Then
Colors Alive More than Stone...

Life is A Circus; 'Greater' Clowns Paint Love... (More Heaven Colors New)

Wow, too Bad They (The Beatles) Didn't Have to Use Hallucinate Drugs

To Create That Album; Oh When Ration Holds Hands With Magic Dreams of Art Come to Fruition

Now; No Need to Wait For Decades or Thousands of Years To And Fro As Now Becomes Eternal Love

Meanwhile, Free of Charge And

All External Substance Drugs

Dam Yet Darn,

'The Church'

is Focused

On Penises

And Vaginas';

Oh God When Will

'The Church' Rise Higher than A Penis and HE ALone....

Hint: When it Becomes Love For ALL A Long Way it has

to Travel Still or just fade away as Dust without Love does....

Like A Stone Statue Bust on the Album Cover oF A Living Burial Ground 'the Church'....

If 'Ration' Rules

It Does Not

Explain the

Great Success of

That Album after

The 50's When Folks

Were Starving to see Colors Again of Free...LoVE iN Creativity Greater...

Oh the 60's, Free Love And As Usual A War and PRiSons of Souls Come Next...

Ah Yes, Yet Now Stone Statues Continue to BREaTHE Free RiSinG Out of Dust Before....

The Church

Honestly

Needs to Keep

Its Grubby 'Little Trump Hands'

Off the Body Parts of Free Still Now...

THere IS A New Variable in 'the Equation';

The Information Highway And Those oF LiGHT Holding Hands Globe-Wide...

Now

'The

Hive' Arrives...

And 'The Church'

Dies More than Likely

it seems unless it sheds

its Stone... And Breathes Love Free;

Many of the Folks 'In the Catholic Church'

Are Very Conservative Leaning and Literal Thinking;

They are Just Not Cut Out and or Molded For Poetry

And Deeper Meanings

of Sacred Text

And the Such of

Arts; It's so Ironic;

Yet An 'Old Testament

God' Is ParT of Nature

And Will Be Here as Long

AS Human Is Classically Evolved as is for Change....

Meanwhile, 'A Circus' is 'in Town'; Maybe 'Second

to None' so Far at Least, Enjoy It While We Can and Will Freer Now...

And Please, Please, Please, 'Mister'; Someone Spread the 'Good News' to 'the Church' That Love is More

Than A Penis and Vagina And As Such Alone; Please, Please, Please, "Mr. Postman of the 50's Come" Through...

Other Than That Help 'The Church; And Those Who Follow 'THAT' Lift Veils oF iGNoRaNCE With a Little Education...

Do IT With

Love

And

Compassion;

Even More Human Than

'A Statue' Trapped IN A Burial Grown Where Love Won't Grow....

"Gays are Evolved By Nature (God) To Help Us Be Kinder to Each Other"

The Face Palm

On This Movement

of 'the Church' is Face Palm Forest

Thick as They Have No Clue How Human Love Even Works, OVERALL.

"If Michelangelo Was Straight He Might Have Wall Papered the Sistine Chapel"

Or

Become

Pope; Maybe

For Real If 'He' Set Himself

Free With Wings Of Who 'He'

Really Is Now...If Truth is the Light and Way to Go....FOR REAL NOW.

"It's In Our Diversity Where We Find Our Collective Strength" Without

Gay Our Stay is Shorter As Species, Overall...

It's Not 'The End of the

World' If 'We Decide'

If We ACTuaLLY

Be Come

to Get

SmARTeR

And Live A Little or A Lot
Longer as a Loving Cooperating
Smarter Species ToGeTHeR iN Diversity's Strength...

If 'The Church' Won't Catch Up 'We' Will Leave 'The Statue' 'Left Behind'....




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Fnord
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16 Mar 2021, 12:25 pm

The Vatican's letter only said that same-sex marriages will not receive the Church's "blessing" because it is the Church's official policy that anything other than a heterosexual marriage is a "sin".  This is the same situation that non-Catholics have faced with the RCC for centuries -- only Catholics who marry Catholics can have their marriage "blessed" by the Church.

But what is this "blessing", really?  What really happens when the priest raises his hands, says a prayer, and then tells someone to "go in peace"?  What is gained by this "blessing"?

If two people want to be married, then they can get married.  If one church will not "bless" you, then find another that will.

Simple, right?


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Sinister Biscuit
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16 Mar 2021, 12:41 pm

Fnord wrote:


If two people want to be married, then they can get married.  If one church will not "bless" you, then find another that will.

Simple, right?


2000+ years of oppression, violence, and genocide against LGBTQ people at the hands of arguably the largest and most entrenched worldwide cult of pedophilia that literally practices ritualised cannibalism but "the gheys" can just go to another church.

You fail to recognise the history of violence perpetrated by the Vatican and the influence they have on the heterosupremacists in control of our lives.
Well played - bigotry is alive and well.



IsabellaLinton
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16 Mar 2021, 12:43 pm

Fnord wrote:

If two people want to be married, then they can get married.  If one church will not "bless" you, then find another that will.

Simple, right?


I agree; however, there are over a billion Catholic people on planet Earth. A majority are extremely traditional and will treat this message as gospel. This includes lawmakers in countries around the world, deciding if gay marriage should be legal.

The announcement makes a homophobic statement which will also disempower many gay, Catholic individuals from coming out to their families, or being proud of their orientation. No one should be forced to feel conflicted in their family, their relationship, or their faith. Just because someone is gay it doesn't mean their church isn't important to them, or that they're willing to be shunned by their community. It's heartbreaking to have this reaffirmed.



Fnord
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16 Mar 2021, 12:55 pm

IsabellaLinton wrote:
Fnord wrote:
If two people want to be married, then they can get married.  If one church will not "bless" you, then find another that will.  Simple, right?
I agree; however, there are over a billion Catholic people on planet Earth.  A majority are extremely traditional and will treat this message as gospel.  This includes lawmakers in countries around the world, deciding if gay marriage should be legal.  The announcement makes a homophobic statement which will also disempower many gay, Catholic individuals from coming out to their families, or being proud of their orientation.  No one should be forced to feel conflicted in their family, their relationship, or their faith.  Just because someone is gay it doesn't mean their church isn't important to them, or that they're willing to be shunned by their community.  It's heartbreaking to have this reaffirmed.
Yes, it is a very sad situation; but The Pope has spoken -- "Ita locutus est, et ita fieri".  Now, what to do about it?


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