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madbutnotmad
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24 Mar 2021, 2:59 pm

After reading a book or two on Aleister Crowley and his obvious enthusiasm for the revival and practice of Magic/k.

I had to ask myself the question, if magic/k is supposed to bring the practitioner material rewards in this life and the material world.... And that by reputation, Crowley was considered to be a powerful warlock or sorcerer...

Then why did Crowley die penniless heroin addict, rather than the king of the world or universe?...
Crowley, born to privilege and luxury, died with nothing.

Personally, I thought that magic/k was supposed to work the other way around.
i.e. to make the penniless rich and powerful, rather than the rich and powerful, poor and powerless....

Or is Crowley secretly really successful, but in Hell or something, or perhaps he has the biggest house in smurf land,
and he has smurfette already up the duff and his maid and sex slave, and even pappa smurf, treats him like his guru...

Anyone who's into [email protected]/K, like to explain how that works?....
so i as to convince me that magic/k actually has any power or is simply just a throwback to the dark ages,
and just a human behaviour that some are attracted to which they use as an excuse and licence to hurt people
for prejudice and unjust reasons....

Just out of interest, I am trying to be open minded and give people a chance?...
I am not an expert in these areas, and i am not judging other people
(as i don't think that it is my right to judge people generally).

would be interested in learning how other people see things and why they put their faith into the things they do.
thanks



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24 Mar 2021, 3:05 pm

Edward Alexander Crowley was a self-proclaimed drug abuser and sex-fiend, a mostly self-published author of books on the occult and magick, a poet, a mountaineer, and a leader of a group called Ordo Templi Orientis (OTO).

Files exist that prove that he was once paid by the Germans to write anti-British propaganda.  When WWI came about, Crowley actually sided with the Germans.  He was involved in New York’s pro-German movement and wrote for The Fatherland, a pro-German propaganda paper.

Although an experienced mountaineer, tragedy struck when Crowley and a crew tried to climb Kangchenjunga, the third highest mountain in the world.  An avalanche killed four of the men on the expedition.  He was later quoted as saying, "A mountain 'accident' of this sort is one of the things for which I have no sympathy whatever".  When he passed the site of the avalanche the next day, he didn’t even bother stopping to talk to the survivors.

Crowley claimed to identify himself with the Great Beast 666 (from the Book of Revelation) and enjoyed the appellation of "wickedest man in the world".  Crowley inherited a fortune and worked hard at being strange.  He was especially alluring to dysfunctional women.

Crowley was so into snorting drugs that his nasal passages started to decay.  He underwent several drastic surgical operations to have this solved.  He would go through these procedures routinely for the rest of his life.

He was also a fake, a fraud, and a charlatan.  Crowley declared bankruptcy in 1935 after trying to falsely sue multiple people for libel.  He had significant financial issues due to his drug use and travels, and he wasn’t exactly good with his money.  The courts found that Crowley was actually spending three times his income.

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Edward Alexander Crowley
1875-1947


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Soliloquist
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24 Mar 2021, 6:33 pm

Fnord wrote:
When WWI came about, Crowley actually sided with the Germans. He was involved in New York’s pro-German movement and wrote for The Fatherland, a pro-German propaganda paper.


Quote:
When WWI came about, Crowley actually sided with the Germans (at least publicly). He was involved in New York’s pro-German movement and wrote for The Fatherland, a pro-German propaganda paper. However, neither the public nor his comrades knew that Crowley was hiding a secret. He was actually acting as a double agent for British Intelligence agencies, attempting to undermine Germany’s efforts in America from within.


Fnord wrote:
When he passed the site of the avalanche the next day, he didn’t even bother stopping to talk to the survivors.


Quote:
Crowley warned them that it would be dangerous to turn back, they did so—all of them, except Crowley, died in an accident.


Fnord wrote:
Crowley claimed to identify himself with the Great Beast 666 (from the Book of Revelation)


Quote:
As a child, Crowley’s mother referred to him as “the Beast 666” when he would misbehave. Crowley referred to himself this way throughout his life.


Fnord wrote:
Crowley declared bankruptcy in 1935 after trying to falsely sue multiple people for libel.


Quote:
Crowley attempted to sue people he believed had libeled him, and though he won some cases, the legal fees were too much. He was declared bankrupt in 1935


Aleister Crowley wrote:
Pan to Artemis

Uncharmable charmer
Of Bacchus and Mars
In the sounding rebounding
Abyss of the stars!
O virgin in armour,
Thine arrows unsling
In the brilliant resilient
First rays of the spring!

By the force of the fashion
Of love, when I broke
Through the shroud, through the cloud,
Through the storm, through the smoke,
To the mountain of passion
Volcanic that woke ---
By the rage of the mage
I invoke, I invoke!

By the midnight of madness: -
The lone-lying sea,
The swoon of the moon,
Your swoon into me,
The sentinel sadness
Of cliff-clinging pine,
That night of delight
You were mine, you were mine!

You were mine, O my saint,
My maiden, my mate,
By the might of the right
Of the night of our fate.
Though I fall, though I faint,
Though I char, though I choke,
By the hour of our power
I invoke, I invoke!

By the mystical union
Of fairy and faun,
Unspoken, unbroken -
The dust to the dawn! -
A secret communion
Unmeasured, unsung,
The listless, resistless,
Tumultuous tongue! -

O virgin in armour,
Thine arrows unsling,
In the brilliant resilient
First rays of the spring!
No Godhead could charm her,
But manhood awoke -
O fiery Valkyrie,
I invoke, I invoke!


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Mona Pereth
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24 Mar 2021, 7:12 pm

Soliloquist wrote:
Quote:
When WWI came about, Crowley actually sided with the Germans (at least publicly). He was involved in New York’s pro-German movement and wrote for The Fatherland, a pro-German propaganda paper. However, neither the public nor his comrades knew that Crowley was hiding a secret. He was actually acting as a double agent for British Intelligence agencies, attempting to undermine Germany’s efforts in America from within.

This is a quote from where?

Soliloquist wrote:
Quote:
Crowley warned them that it would be dangerous to turn back, they did so—all of them, except Crowley, died in an accident.

Your source?

Fnord, could you please cite you sources too?


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techstepgenr8tion
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25 Mar 2021, 9:24 am

No clue but then again I don't how much he was into that specifically.

I think there's far credible evidence of mysticism working, most of the kabbalistic manipulations (gematria, notoricon, temura) are about hacking your brains own software. I spent a few weeks several years ago reading Gems of the Equinox and I remember Vision and the Voice being one of the more interesting things in there - ie. a pretty lengthy writeup of his encounter with the 30 Enochian Aethers. From what I remember the visions were quite kaleidoscopic, constantly shifting and permutating through each other - very DMT trip in flavor however it's an open question as to whether it was all of the pranayama and other things he was doing that got him there or whether he was adding other substances on top of that.

Crowley really open-sourced the Golden Dawn system more, added more eastern practices and elements, and he tried also to make A.'.A.'. a much more rigorous system, meaning that in the Golden Dawn people could get promoted through the ten grades quite often by just showing up, behaving well, and being liked whereas with A.'.A.'. it was boot camp, you'd have to work your arse off to where the things that you were supposed to be able to do at each sphere of the Tree of Life that the grade level represented had to be something that you could actually demonstrably do. The other thing, A.'.A.'. was very heavily about what's called 'Knowledge and Conversation of the Holy Guardian Angel', which Crowley didn't feel like the Golden Dawn emphasized enough and so he hit that much harder in A.'.A.'.

If you want more details on the above there's a psychologist and magician, Dr. David Shoemaker, who has a Youtube channel called 'Living Thelema' where he gets into the contents, angles, and directions of what A.'.A.'. practice is about.

The other thing about Crowley - the sense that he was a 'Satanist', it's complicated. I've learned myself for example that what's often in the darker cthonic imagery is the more primal or natural. What divides into right hand path and left hand path seems to rarification vs. engaging with the very hard and primal elements. The rarification is giving yourself higher levels of self-governance, think of the kinds of integrity that Manly P Hall was big on people developing, whereas the left hand path is like trying to level up, strengthen, and fortify the animal and to some degree it's the more dangerous path because the goal is actually getting a lot closer to direct manipulation of the kinds of generator functions that your frame is built on.

Either way running at a system hard enough, especially if you're really obstinant about success by any means necessary, can be a great way to pop your cork as far as I can tell. It's a bit like in the life you've lived your own mind is in its own basin of attraction and if you try to climb out of that bowl rather than modifying it peace by peace you can land somewhere else that's more like a herniation or like the baby falling out of the crib and landing on the ground - ie. it's a decidedly worse, less cohesive state.

I think Crowley was one of those people who started off with a lot of anger from the ways his parents religiously abused him, had a lot of fire to want to climb right out of the state of the world that he found himself in, did whatever he could to shock people (think a bit like Andy Kaufmann style pranks but with a more offense and shock-oriented pitch), the system he built was really a different handling of the same ToL that the Golden Dawn were doing but... a good way of saying it... he made it 'angsty', or pretty much he loaded up with all sorts of industrial and punk patches. Putting the Beast and Babalon on the ToL wasn't a way of saying 'this is a Satanic reinvisioning of the ToL', it was more of a complete overhaul of what the Beast and Babalon symbolized - ie. rejiggered their components to make them redemptive figures. The Book of the Law is just loaded with iconoclastic but otherwise kabbalistic number games and metaphors which I think were probably Crowley's subconscious and all the stuff he was loading it up with spitting a brick of reprocessed material at him.

I know I said very little on magic but - I really don't remember reading much about him trying to change the world or 'manifest' things too much more than perhaps whatever fights he had to get and keep Boleskine House. Most of the big magical acts I remember reading about were Jack Parsons and Marjorie Cameron doing their working (with - strange enough - L Ron Hubbard watching in the corner). Crowley was much more of a psychonaut and self-transformation guy who was trying to follow the threads he was grabbing wherever they lead. In a way he was a bit more of a chaos magician in the modern sense even if he was founding his own systems.


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aghogday
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25 Mar 2021, 10:57 am





SMiles, So Many Metaphors, So Many Cross Cultural References,

And So Many Authors of the Human Story That Repeats In Basic Human Archetypes

And Symbols That Are Limitless That Express A Similar Human Condition Through the Ages...

"Do As Thou Wilt",

An Excellent Freedom

Chant For Those Imprisoned

In the CuLTuRaL Trap of Group Think

That May Bond over Horrific Dreams or Nightmares Same....

'Love is the Law',

No Cr8p, We Are

Mammals, Where Females

Nurture By Warm Breast Feed

Of Love Where the Neurohormone

Oxytocin is Indeed the Milk of Social Bonding

For All Ages When Normal And Healthy of Course Enough...

So What About the Addict Aleister Crowley; Yes, Sadly Prisoner

of the Disease of Addiction Coming From the Scars Within of Born

And Raised Gardened Life... True, Oh the Extent Folks Will Go to Fill And Feel the Void Within...

Aleister Crowley

A Man Trying

to Find A Soul

With a Padded Wallet

of Inheritance And With

Stellar Verbal Intelligence; Yet,

Shallow Emotions Mostly Restricted

to Base Reptile Brain Drives, Food And Sex

And Stimulants As Such to replace the Warmth

of Deeper Emotions to Bond And Feel Within to Give and Share Free

More Like
What

'White

Magicians'

Do as that Pertains

to Influencing The Warmth of
LoVE iN Others in Empathic Ways of

Giving Sharing And Caring, Are Ya Ready
To Dance And Sing An Amen of Love Yet all Warm and Fuzzy...

Not so Much For Aleister Crowley As He Was Looking to Escape in Sex and Drug Addictions

And Even in His So-Called 'Book of the Law', He Dictated from Subconscious Flow of Mind Gave Him
And Others All the Justification They Needed Where Sadly Copy Cat Followers Still Feel the Same Way

In Modern Generations As Yes Aleister Crowley, Might have had a Horrible Ending to His Life and Never

Really Felt Like Enough, Always Empty within, Looking For Someway to Fill/Feel the Void; Yet, Influence of

Who He was Still Lives on today, Nearly A Century After His Death; so True, He Accomplishes still

What 'the 99 Percent

of Humanity' Never

Does; 'Immortality',

Particularly as

His Poetry Is Still

Read; A Record of His Soul

As Is Then Still Breathing Now

Authentically For What He was at Essence Dark or Light, He Still 'Breathes'...

Now Obviously, in this Thread Above as His influence continues on for real....
As Far as 'Black Magicians' Go, Those Who Influence For Selfish Means of Faux Carrots
And Sticks Promised As 'The Church, in General, All Religions' In Fact Are Among the Most

Successful 'Black

Magician Ways' of

Controlling And Subjugating

And Taking Away Freedoms of

Others for Selfish Purposes of Domination...
Is it any Wonder that 'The Clergy' Ticks off the
Psychopathic Check-List in the Top 10 Professions

IN A Word, Hell No
And Hell Yes an

Excellent Nocebo

Effect of 'Black Magician'

Voodoo way to get Others

to Submit to Black Magic in Organizational

Ways; Is Promising Heaven After Death Any Less Evil

Missing It Within On Earth Meanwhile to Master, Subjugate

And Control Others Same While Living; Well no, Not If You Are

At least Rational

And Appreciate

This Breath Now

Enough to Make

It Peaceful And Harmonious

Warm And Tender Loving Heaven Now
For all; yet True the Proof is in the Pudding

Mix As Truly Trump Puts Aleister Crowley to Shame

As He Made Himself A Replacement God For Jesus in Churches

Across the Country and Made it no Secret They would Love and Support

Him Same if He Shot Someone on 5th Avenue in Public or Even Worse the

Reality of Inciting A Violent Insurrection to Overturn Democracy And Even when

Folks (Republican 'Highest' Leaders) Admitted He Did it They Turned 'Right' around

On '5th Avenue'

And Kissed

His Butt

No

Matter

How Much

He made them

Bleed Before on the

Metaphor of 5th Avenue

And All the Folks He convinced

Not to Wear A Mask Even in Church

to Spread A Deadly Pandemic All around

Killing Way Over Half A Million Folks Now;

Wow, What Black Magician Success Trump Employed

And Still Manages to Employ, influencing Folks Totally in the

Dark oF iGNoRaNCE For Selfish Gain for that one Man Who Does

As He Wilts, no matter How Many Folks Fall to Death By His Hand And Voice of Dark Influence...

So Does 'Sex Magic' Work; Duh, Science Shows that Lust is a Core Source for Creativity and Productivity;

Particularly Among Men And Lust is Vital For Cooperation Among Women to Show Who Is the Most Nurturing

oF all

To 'Capture'

A Male Mate

So Yeah, Multiply

That By Every Human

in The Country And See How

Much CR8P You Will Sell By Using

Sex in all the ways that comes to Fill

Up Double Garages With More Goods Never

Even Used to Sell At the Next Garage Market 10-Cent-Drive

Without

Sex to

Sell Unless
the Wife is

Wearing Short Shorts
in the Garage Sale Environment Hehe...

Yet You See There is A Different Kind of Magic

And A Different Kind of Magician; Yes, The 'White Magician'

Other Names in Other Cultures Include 'Shaman' One Who Heals

With Positive Influence of Total Honest And Sincere Emotions that

Require No Wallet at All; Not Even A Cent; At About the Age of Trump

When He was Chatting on a Bus Talking about How Powerful He Was As

Powerful Enough to Grab And Abuse Private Parts of Women; Yet With

No Money in my Pockets Pushing 60 Years-Old, i was/am Just influencing Flowers

With Dance And Song of Smiles; Thing is i never

Approached A Single one for A Dance

Or Song; They Came to me

As they Could Feel

And Sense my

Light

Without

Even A Word

The Light Generated

Within; Yet True i just Came

Back Now From a Place Where Commonly

Nice Young Women Say My Words Bring them 'Pure Bliss'...

Honestly, it was nothing at all; i was/am Just Being me Free and Happy

Loving All Others Unconditional Just to be Who i am at Core LoVE iNCaRNaTE NoW

It was/is

Nothing

At All,

A Real

Smile A Wealth

that Aleister Crowley

Likely Never Felt and Trump

Likely Never Will Actually Give or Receive

Empty Within; So Who Is Truly Rich; So Who is

Truly Poor; True, my Life is No Strip Bar for Pay...

Empty Pockets and Genuine Light of Love Pave all my Way Free...

For You See What Lives Within or Dies Within Is all that is really real now and then....

And True, i could make Thousands of More Quick Gifs Just like the one below Yet this

one is
likely

Brevity

Enough to
Get the Point across...

People Will truly Remember

You By the Way You Make them

Feel; Not What They Are able to Give you in Selfish-Material ways...

Do What You Love, Love Others in Ways That Brings them Pure Bliss

And You Live Forever

in their Soul

And they

Spread

That Eternal

Life of Love That is Light

And Real 'White Magic' to Others

The Same; Yet You See i am no name, Just an Eternal Cheshire Cat Smile... Now...

Don't Even Need to Leave Any Initials of my Born on Date Name Anywhere as i am no name....

Yet Love Still Breathing...

the Opposite

of the

Other

WayS iNDeed....

i Couldn't Find A Golden

Colored Cat; so i settled for a Black

Panther for the Theme Song hehe; True

Though, Was the Mascot For my High School...

Mysterious and in my case Always Bringing Free Gifts....

Haha, Check Out those 80's Hair Styles; Yep, i Was Doing it in
The Dance Halls in the 80's Yet Truly Not Very Successful Bringing
Smiles as a Wall Flower; 'White Magic'; Like Anything Else Takes Long Years for True Success in Practice....

While Everyone Else Was Pursuing Money, in the 'Back Ground', Almost Invisible, Still Practicing my 'Craft'...

It's What Cats Do....

It's What Truly

'Bigger Feral

Loving Cats' Do.... still now...

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funeralxempire
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25 Mar 2021, 11:35 am

Claiming to have magic(k)al powers just proves he wasn't even a very original con-artist.



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25 Mar 2021, 11:41 am

funeralxempire wrote:
Claiming to have magic(k)al powers just proves he wasn't even a very original con-artist.
The first religion came about when the first scoundrel met the first fool (a quote attributed to Mark Twain), so Crowley is certainly not the last in a long line of equally-distinguish predecessors.


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25 Mar 2021, 2:29 pm

madbutnotmad wrote:
if magic/k is supposed to bring the practitioner material rewards in this life and the material world.... And that by reputation, Crowley was considered to be a powerful warlock or sorcerer...

I had a Thelemite roommate for about a year, and I skimread Magick In Theory And Practice, so here's my takeaway. Crowley's reasons for practicing Magick were to achieve the Knowledge and Conversation of his Holy Guardian Angel; he didn't practice Magick for material gain, or for any other reasons that would be comprehensible to a non-practitioner. I actually don't know how you managed to read two books about Aleister Crowley and miss this point so thoroughly.



techstepgenr8tion
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26 Mar 2021, 2:24 pm

Barchan wrote:
madbutnotmad wrote:
if magic/k is supposed to bring the practitioner material rewards in this life and the material world.... And that by reputation, Crowley was considered to be a powerful warlock or sorcerer...

I had a Thelemite roommate for about a year, and I skimread Magick In Theory And Practice, so here's my takeaway. Crowley's reasons for practicing Magick were to achieve the Knowledge and Conversation of his Holy Guardian Angel; he didn't practice Magick for material gain, or for any other reasons that would be comprehensible to a non-practitioner. I actually don't know how you managed to read two books about Aleister Crowley and miss this point so thoroughly.

... and with that the conversation grinds to a halt. :lol: :roll:

(not just picking on this one thread but just how adept we've become, as a community, at the fine art of attention/memory-holing information we don't want to see)


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