Sex, social skills, crime and mens rea

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FranzOren
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07 Apr 2021, 9:33 pm

What if I committed sexual assault without mens rea intention, because I don't pick on all social cues? I have Autism Spectrum Disorder.


Let's imagine I still had a girlfriend and and I ask her if she wants to have sex, she then says "Yes", As soon I have sex with her she changed her mind and doesn't want to have sex and I kept having sex with her, because she did not tell me to "Stop, let's not do sex now", but her body languages is saying stop to me and I still kept having sex with her until she told to "Stop or I will call the police on you" and I was confused, because I am not very good at reading social cues. I understand things in literal ways.


But, how do I know when to ask her if she is okay?

It's scary to think about it even!

What red flag do I look for?



Thank you!

I am sorry that I asked! Autism Spectrum Disorder is kind of Communication Learning Disorder.



But before I do sex, I want to improve on my social skills a little more. I don't want to make mistakes and then be falsely accused of rape.



Joe90
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08 Apr 2021, 1:55 am

I don't think that will happen. If you get a girlfriend and you get in the same bed and you're both consenting adults and she wants sex as much as you do then it won't be rape. When I first had sex the man I was with told me to say if he's hurting me. He did hurt, but not intentionally, it's just my stupid abnormally narrow...bits. But I'm on the spectrum and I knew that it wasn't him hurting me, just sex itself, and he was not raping me. He even said "I don't want to hurt you". He was neurotypical.

I understand that you're just overthinking this but I can assure you that won't happen. Before having sex with a girl just ask her to say if anything hurts and that you'll stop. If it's not her first time then she should know how she feels about sex and she'll be more ready. Just be open and honest and show that you're caring.

My boyfriend touches my butt and any other place you can think of, at random times, but I love it. I mean, he's my boyfriend. He's the only man in the whole world who is not a sexual threat to me, because we're in a relationship.


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FranzOren
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08 Apr 2021, 3:45 am

It i just that I might not understand that some body languages means that tells me to stop, but I am reading.

It's just that I need a voice to tell me to stop when doing sexual stuff, because if she told me to stop in body languages that I don't understand, I would have had sex with you none-stop until you physically stop me and explain to me why you felt uncomfortable and sexually assaulted so I learn to never do that again or you call the police .



FranzOren
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08 Apr 2021, 4:00 am

I have trouble reading and understanding some verbal and nonverbal social cues.



FranzOren
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08 Apr 2021, 4:24 am

I am sorry that I am scared and tend overthink about it, but how do I know when to stop having sex?

I have trouble reading and understanding some verbal and nonverbal social cue, as I pointed out before.



IrreversibleMistakes
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09 Apr 2021, 12:14 pm

FranzOren wrote:
What if I committed sexual assault without mens rea intention, because I don't pick on all social cues? I have Autism Spectrum Disorder.


Let's imagine I still had a girlfriend and and I ask her if she wants to have sex, she then says "Yes", As soon I have sex with her she changed her mind and doesn't want to have sex and I kept having sex with her, because she did not tell me to "Stop, let's not do sex now", but her body languages is saying stop to me and I still kept having sex with her until she told to "Stop or I will call the police on you" and I was confused, because I am not very good at reading social cues. I understand things in literal ways.


But, how do I know when to ask her if she is okay?

It's scary to think about it even!

What red flag do I look for?



Thank you!

I am sorry that I asked! Autism Spectrum Disorder is kind of Communication Learning Disorder.



But before I do sex, I want to improve on my social skills a little more. I don't want to make mistakes and then be falsely accused of rape.

That's not exclusive to aspies. That's one of "accused but not guilty" cases.

Both left and right engage in this.

On the left they are hesitant to execute people because of chance of innocence. But they also want to punish men more in case of rape and sexual assault cases even if flimsier evidence is found. On the right they don't want rape accusees convicted unless there is absolute proof, even if they are rapist pieces of s**t.

As an AS male I find execution better option than long time incarceration but that's just me.

In my country even mass murderers don't get executed. So the criminal justice policy rather sucks here.

Anders Breivik is laughing that he didn't receive death penalty that he deserved.



FranzOren
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10 Apr 2021, 10:57 am

I just think death is an easier way out. If I was incarcerated for appropriate amount of time, I would learn how to behave.

For example: Let's say that I did have sex with my girl friend (I don't have a girl friend, I am just imagining a situation of what would happen in this story) and she did use her words and used simple body languages that I understand, to tell me that she does not want to have sex at a moment and I still had have sex with her.

That is where it becomes a problem and I need to be put to jail or prison and I might ask for therapies so I learn how to control myself, but putting me to death for sexual assault? Really?

I did not know you can be put to death for sexual assault, sexual offenses does not kill people. The worst crimes for death penalty I can think of are for multiple counts of murders, treason or espionage. But at the same time, I have mixed feelings about the death penalty, because four percent of people in death row are innocent.


Source to my question about developmental disorders and death penalty:

viewtopic.php?t=395591

https://www.quora.com/How-would-people- ... ose-crimes


(All the sources that supports my opinions is there as well!)

I am sorry if my logic sounded too simple!



FranzOren
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10 Apr 2021, 11:34 am

I need to be more specific!

Yes, I can read some body languages, but I am not sure If I can read all body languages, because of my history of developmental delay.

I can understand these specific examples of body languages that means to have sex or not:

Image

Image

Image

Image

Image


(Well, I don't understand all of them, but some of them are easy to understand)



Most, but not all complex body languages are hard for me to understand.

Examples of body complex languages:

Image

Image





I only understand when to stop having sex if my partner made a body language as a stop sign or thumps down. And if I am afraid that I might have hard time understanding some of her body languages, I can ask my partner if she can explain to me in words when I am supposed to start or stop having sex.


For example, I kept following the person, the person gets annoyed by me, but I kept following this person, because I don't understand why this person does not want to talk to me, but if a person told me "Please, STOP following me! Thank you!" or showed me simple body languages to stop me from following him/her, I would have said "I am sorry, I did not mean to annoy you. I hope you have a good day. Take care". And I stopped following this person and went somewhere else.

Examples of body languages that I understand the most to stop what I am doing:


https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/imag ... w&usqp=CAU
Image

Image

What I was worried about is that she agreed to have sex with me, I started to have sex with her, she did not use body language that I understand and she did not say anything when she no longer wanted to have sex. How am I supposed to know when to stop having sex if she does not give me any response? Should I ask her if she is okay?

I have so many questions about my lack of social skills and legality of my actions depending on the context.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7GjuAdqi1nA&t=616s



Prof. Sam Vaknin explained that if I don't understand what people are trying to tell me, I might do something that are stressful or distressful, he even explained that if you don't understand what people are trying to tell you, you can commit crimes without meaning to do so.

Prof. Sam Vaknin also explained that most autistic crimes are actually violent, because they are scared, don't feel well and don't understand where they even are.

That is why I got so scared and was asking questions about my legality of my actions, because my social skills are not that good.



Joe90
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10 Apr 2021, 3:19 pm

Most of those are sign language, which isn't familiar even to NTs unless they learn it.

Not everything NTs communicate is non-verbal, they do have a tongue.


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FranzOren
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10 Apr 2021, 3:30 pm

Thank you! I understood.

It takes me some more time to learn social skills, because of my history of developmental delay.



enz
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10 Apr 2021, 7:43 pm

Just have a conversation with your girlfriend about it and establish a way to say no



FranzOren
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10 Apr 2021, 7:49 pm

Thank you! I understood.