We need to stop labeling dissidents as "conspiracy theorists
With all the obvious lies being pushed about this vaccine, it is no wonder why people don't want it.
If the news concentrated on speaking the truth and not trying to manipulate people, more people would have the vaccine as they would not be so cautious.
I will quote myself to explain something that our news keeps saying which are complete lies.
"Get the vaccine so one is not a danger in spreading the virus to others."
Now vaccines do nothing to stop one spreading viruses. They never have and they never will. All it means is the one who has had the vaccine has an immune system that is or should be better able to cope with the virus or disease that one is vaccinated against. Even if they were able to 100% vaccinate the whole worlds population, the virus would still survive and be passed on from person to person. It just means that the people have a head start if they catch the virus.
Another lie I heard on our local Welsh news several months ago when they were reeling out the vaccines like mad was that they stated that they had already been able to vaccinate 78% of the population and they urged the rest to come forwards when called.
Then a few days ago they said "Only 40% of the population of Wales has been vaccinated and there were concerns that people were not coming forwards".
So what is it? 78% or 40%? Were they lieing before and telling the truth now? Or were they telling the truth now and lieing then?
The problem is when we keep being lied to, we then start to believe there is a hidden agenda behind it.
It's becoming more and more apparent that getting a double vaccine isn't going to be enough to for us to be fred from these idiotic, draconian lockdowns.
Just wait for your second dose and ignore all restrictions afterwards. If a guard tells you to put a mask on in a shop just ignore them.
funeralxempire
Veteran
Joined: 27 Oct 2014
Age: 39
Gender: Non-binary
Posts: 25,516
Location: Right over your left shoulder
With all the obvious lies being pushed about this vaccine, it is no wonder why people don't want it.
If the news concentrated on speaking the truth and not trying to manipulate people, more people would have the vaccine as they would not be so cautious.
I will quote myself to explain something that our news keeps saying which are complete lies.
"Get the vaccine so one is not a danger in spreading the virus to others."
Now vaccines do nothing to stop one spreading viruses. They never have and they never will. All it means is the one who has had the vaccine has an immune system that is or should be better able to cope with the virus or disease that one is vaccinated against. Even if they were able to 100% vaccinate the whole worlds population, the virus would still survive and be passed on from person to person. It just means that the people have a head start if they catch the virus.
Another lie I heard on our local Welsh news several months ago when they were reeling out the vaccines like mad was that they stated that they had already been able to vaccinate 78% of the population and they urged the rest to come forwards when called.
Then a few days ago they said "Only 40% of the population of Wales has been vaccinated and there were concerns that people were not coming forwards".
So what is it? 78% or 40%? Were they lieing before and telling the truth now? Or were they telling the truth now and lieing then?
The problem is when we keep being lied to, we then start to believe there is a hidden agenda behind it.
It's becoming more and more apparent that getting a double vaccine isn't going to be enough to for us to be fred from these idiotic, draconian lockdowns.
Just wait for your second dose and ignore all restrictions afterwards. If a guard tells you to put a mask on in a shop just ignore them.
Sounds like a good way to get kicked out and banned.
_________________
Watching liberals try to solve societal problems without a systemic critique/class consciousness is like watching someone in the dark try to flip on the light switch, but they keep turning on the garbage disposal instead.
戦争ではなく戦争と戦う
Look let me just put it out there: of course there are legitimately idiotic conspiracy theorists. Of course QAnon peddles some outrageous drivel that makes even me nauseate. And of course David Icke is crazy and so is Alex Jones
But not everyone who questions the mainstream or orthodox is David Icke or Alex Jones. Given the corruption of the media, the level of censoriousness that pervades this country, of course the official narrative for everything will seem the most trustworthy when facts that contradict it are censored and suppressed.
Im not saying every and any conspiracy theory is right because the mainstream is always wrong; all I'm saying is that the mainstream isn't necessarily right and that sometimes what may sound crazy can actually be true.
The idea of a conspiracy itself isn't too farfetched. Didn't the cabal that assassinated Julius Caesar, was that not a conspiracy? In the dramatized play of that event written by Shakespeare there was a scene where a man with a letter tried to warn Caesar of his impending death by the assassins, and Caesar dismissed it in modern parlance as nothing but a conspiracy. If Caesar were alive today and the paper warning of his assassination were to circulate, modern day fact checkers and truth monopolizers would insist that the letter is "fake news" and ban it....until the assassination happens and everyone who scoffed at it as a conspiracy is made to look like an idiot.
False equation.
Conspiracy theorists arent necessarily dissidents.
And dissidents dont necessarily resort to conspiracy theories.
Second: the right to be heard does not equal the right to be taken seriously.
Its not necessarily the fault of the audience that they jeer at you. It could be your fault for not making your case.
The senators who assasinated Caesar constituted a normal mundane common type of "conspiracy"- involving a tight and small group of conspirators - common thing in real history. Like the "conspiracy" involving the Saudi prince to murder the journalist in Syria. To be a modern tin hatter style "conspiracy theory" it would have to have been- an impossibly large conspiracy spread over a vast nation involving millions in the execution and in the cover up (like the theory the Biden stole the election from Trump). And it would have to be convoluted. Not just guys stabbing Caesar, but .a conspiracy of Pro Julius Caesar Senators - out to make the anti Ceasar group "look bad" by ...PRETENDING to be anti Caesar...and then assassinating Caesar ( but its a really a fall guy disquised as Caesar while the real Caesar escaped and lives on with Elvis in Africa). A certain WP member actually apparently really believes that the Capitol insurrection was staged by anti trump folks posing as proTrump folks - to make pro Trump folks "look bad".
US facing ‘massive shortage’ of conspiracy theories as all of them have come true
Long lines are forming outside most underground book stores and Ra Shops across the country and perennial tin-foil-hat-wearers are getting worried.
“I don’t know what to do, I’ve never not had a conspiracy theory to keep me going,” Roger Thornehill of Chicago said. “What am I going to stay up until 4 in the morning worrying about if they’re uncovering all the conspiracies? I’m freaking out over here.”
Recent revelations have uncovered massive fraud in the 2020 election and US involvement in the development of the COVID-19 pandemic.
“Everyone just wrote these off as theories a few weeks ago. Now it’s coming to light that they really happened,” Thornehill said, sweating profusely.
Florida Governor Ron DeSantis has issued a state of emergency after Florida Man did nothing crazy all day for the first time ever.
Former Vice President Biden issued a statement that there will be “plenty of new conspiracy theories produced shortly,” and “not to worry.”
“What if they’re just exposing all these conspiracies to cover up an even worse conspiracy?” Thornehill added.
Source: https://genesiustimes.com/us-facing-massive-shortage-of-conspiracy-theories-as-all-of-them-have-come-true/
With all the obvious lies being pushed about this vaccine, it is no wonder why people don't want it.
If the news concentrated on speaking the truth and not trying to manipulate people, more people would have the vaccine as they would not be so cautious.
I will quote myself to explain something that our news keeps saying which are complete lies.
"Get the vaccine so one is not a danger in spreading the virus to others."
Now vaccines do nothing to stop one spreading viruses. They never have and they never will. All it means is the one who has had the vaccine has an immune system that is or should be better able to cope with the virus or disease that one is vaccinated against. Even if they were able to 100% vaccinate the whole worlds population, the virus would still survive and be passed on from person to person. It just means that the people have a head start if they catch the virus.
Another lie I heard on our local Welsh news several months ago when they were reeling out the vaccines like mad was that they stated that they had already been able to vaccinate 78% of the population and they urged the rest to come forwards when called.
Then a few days ago they said "Only 40% of the population of Wales has been vaccinated and there were concerns that people were not coming forwards".
So what is it? 78% or 40%? Were they lieing before and telling the truth now? Or were they telling the truth now and lieing then?
The problem is when we keep being lied to, we then start to believe there is a hidden agenda behind it.
It's becoming more and more apparent that getting a double vaccine isn't going to be enough to for us to be fred from these idiotic, draconian lockdowns.
Just wait for your second dose and ignore all restrictions afterwards. If a guard tells you to put a mask on in a shop just ignore them.
Sounds like a good way to get kicked out and banned.
If half of people in the shop do it they're in for a handful.
Just wait for your second dose and ignore all restrictions afterwards. If a guard tells you to put a mask on in a shop just ignore them.
Why? What's so "draconian" about wearing a mask?
At least the shop is allowed to be open.
Until the vast majority of the population has been vaccinated, requiring everyone in the shop to wear a mask makes sense. Otherwise, the shop would need to pay someone to do nothing but keep an eye on everyone in the store to make sure that everyone who isn't wearing a mask has a vaccination card. Requiring everyone in the store to wear a mask is much simpler and less costly.
_________________
- Autistic in NYC - Resources and new ideas for the autistic adult community in the New York City metro area.
- Autistic peer-led groups (via text-based chat, currently) led or facilitated by members of the Autistic Peer Leadership Group.
- My Twitter / "X" (new as of 2021)
funeralxempire
Veteran
Joined: 27 Oct 2014
Age: 39
Gender: Non-binary
Posts: 25,516
Location: Right over your left shoulder
With all the obvious lies being pushed about this vaccine, it is no wonder why people don't want it.
If the news concentrated on speaking the truth and not trying to manipulate people, more people would have the vaccine as they would not be so cautious.
I will quote myself to explain something that our news keeps saying which are complete lies.
"Get the vaccine so one is not a danger in spreading the virus to others."
Now vaccines do nothing to stop one spreading viruses. They never have and they never will. All it means is the one who has had the vaccine has an immune system that is or should be better able to cope with the virus or disease that one is vaccinated against. Even if they were able to 100% vaccinate the whole worlds population, the virus would still survive and be passed on from person to person. It just means that the people have a head start if they catch the virus.
Another lie I heard on our local Welsh news several months ago when they were reeling out the vaccines like mad was that they stated that they had already been able to vaccinate 78% of the population and they urged the rest to come forwards when called.
Then a few days ago they said "Only 40% of the population of Wales has been vaccinated and there were concerns that people were not coming forwards".
So what is it? 78% or 40%? Were they lieing before and telling the truth now? Or were they telling the truth now and lieing then?
The problem is when we keep being lied to, we then start to believe there is a hidden agenda behind it.
It's becoming more and more apparent that getting a double vaccine isn't going to be enough to for us to be fred from these idiotic, draconian lockdowns.
Just wait for your second dose and ignore all restrictions afterwards. If a guard tells you to put a mask on in a shop just ignore them.
Sounds like a good way to get kicked out and banned.
If half of people in the shop do it they're in for a handful.
They can call police to remove people who are trespassing if they won't leave on their own accord after being informed they're no longer permitted entry.
_________________
Watching liberals try to solve societal problems without a systemic critique/class consciousness is like watching someone in the dark try to flip on the light switch, but they keep turning on the garbage disposal instead.
戦争ではなく戦争と戦う
Back to the main topic of this thread:
I distinguish two kinds of "conspiracy theories":
1) Specific allegations of wrongdoing by a government or other powerful entity. These may or may not be true, depending on the evidence.
2) Grand conspiracy ideology: The idea that vast numbers of people are part of a centuries-old (perhaps even millenia-old) conspiracy. The "Protocols of the Elders of Zion" falls into this category, as do many of today's popular claims about "the Illuminati."
I regard the latter category as not just false but extremely dangerous -- especially today's most popular incarnation thereof, which alleges that vast numbers of people, including the entire Democratic party, are part of a gigantic child sex ring.
_________________
- Autistic in NYC - Resources and new ideas for the autistic adult community in the New York City metro area.
- Autistic peer-led groups (via text-based chat, currently) led or facilitated by members of the Autistic Peer Leadership Group.
- My Twitter / "X" (new as of 2021)
_________________
One addresses the dissident's identity, while the other addresses their behavior.
Do try to keep up.
_________________
Just wait for your second dose and ignore all restrictions afterwards. If a guard tells you to put a mask on in a shop just ignore them.
Why? What's so "draconian" about wearing a mask?
At least the shop is allowed to be open.
Until the vast majority of the population has been vaccinated, requiring everyone in the shop to wear a mask makes sense. Otherwise, the shop would need to pay someone to do nothing but keep an eye on everyone in the store to make sure that everyone who isn't wearing a mask has a vaccination card. Requiring everyone in the store to wear a mask is much simpler and less costly.
Puzzled a little.
Vaccines do not prevent viruses from spreading. They spread anyway regardless if one has had a vaccine or not.
Facemasks can do a little but they can also trap viruses in the material so it is a bit of a mixed blessing. What they do do is protect other people if you have the virus. What they do not do so well is if someone else has the virus, prevent you from getting it. (As airborne virus particles are smaller then the gaps in the mask. The issue is that to make the mask effective, one would not be able to breathe through it. The only real effective way is a full on body suit or at least a gas mask type thing which has better protection).
Facemasks therefore are worn to lessen the spread of the virus if one happens to be carrying it. It is why in the Far East where places like China have always worn facemasks, they will wear them if they happen to have a cold or a runny nose. They do not normally wear them if they don't. (It has been their custom in a few countries in the Far East to do this and they have been doing it for many decades as a way of life, but in a way it is partly understandable because over there they do their washing up in cold water, and they do not preheat ovens before they cook meats. (My brothers wife is Korean and many of the other Koreans also look at my Mum daft when she preheats the oven or she washes things in hot water as they don't do it over there. It could be why they need to wear masks more?).
_________________
.
And that's the point of requiring people to wear masks.
The problem with requiring people to wear masks only if they have the virus is that a lot of people are asymptomatic and don't know they have it. So, to limit the spread of the virus, it is necessary to require everyone to wear a mask.
_________________
- Autistic in NYC - Resources and new ideas for the autistic adult community in the New York City metro area.
- Autistic peer-led groups (via text-based chat, currently) led or facilitated by members of the Autistic Peer Leadership Group.
- My Twitter / "X" (new as of 2021)
And that's the point of requiring people to wear masks.
The problem with requiring people to wear masks only if they have the virus is that a lot of people are asymptomatic and don't know they have it. So, to limit the spread of the virus, it is necessary to require everyone to wear a mask.
You may want to revise that claim...Asymptomatic doesn't appear to be an issue (according to a study published by the CDC).
Pre-symptomatic, may be, though.
Source: https://wwwnc.cdc.gov/eid/article/27/4/20-4576_article
Pre-symptomatic, may be, though.
Source: https://wwwnc.cdc.gov/eid/article/27/4/20-4576_article
Thanks for the info and documentation. Yes, the people to worry about are the presymtomatic people, not the ones who will never have symptoms.
The problem is tracking down all the presymptomatic people. That can be difficult, especially in a large, densely populated city, where many people (under normal circumstances) are in close proximity to dozens if not hundreds of other people every day.
So the simplest solution is just to tell everyone to wear a mask and stay six feet apart.
Here in NYC, without masks and social distancing, we would be one big super-spreader event all day every day.
_________________
- Autistic in NYC - Resources and new ideas for the autistic adult community in the New York City metro area.
- Autistic peer-led groups (via text-based chat, currently) led or facilitated by members of the Autistic Peer Leadership Group.
- My Twitter / "X" (new as of 2021)
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