Another confusion about ASD and crime.

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FranzOren
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21 Jun 2021, 8:41 pm

What is "Criminal Autistic Psychopathy"? I thought that statistics point out that most people with ASD are ten times more likely to be victims and five times less likely to commit crimes than the general population.


Sources of the websites that makes me confused:

* https://sciencedirect.com/science/artic ... 3811719952

* https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/17032961

* https://wikipedia.org/wiki/high-functioning_autism

* https://youtube.com/watch?v=7GjuAdqi1nA


Are scientists arguing that since Autism is a spectrum that there must be rare form of developmental disorders that causes ASD and causes people to commit crimes at the same time?

I am so confused.



The_Znof
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22 Jun 2021, 11:55 am

we should try to edit the HFA wiki. Ive never edited a wiki.

Dont worry about them Franz, they're nuts.


so am I, but THATS different.

https://www.gematrix.org/?word=what+the ... ry+of+mind



FranzOren
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22 Jun 2021, 12:09 pm

Thank you! I understood.



The_Znof
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22 Jun 2021, 12:10 pm

this pretty much ends it for Sam and the gang over at the HFA wiki Franz, you should relax about this, adhd can cause crime, but if you have ASD it helps lessen the chance of crime over adhd alone.


aquafelix wrote:
I'm aware that autistic people can end up in the criminal justice system for various reasons, but I know that the research is clear that autism alone is not a risk for violent offending. Below is an article on a very large study that came to that conclusion.

Largest study to date finds autism alone does not increase risk of violent offending



mohsart
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22 Jun 2021, 12:25 pm

I've read that autists usually have a very strong moral, or a code that they/we live by. But that that code doesn't neccesarily correspond with the law - Some illegal things may be ok according to the code and vice versa.
I myself break the law every day, but according to my moral it has to be done "right", ie smoking on the train platform is against the law, but I do it, unless there are other people around, then I move or put out the cigarette.
I suppose worse crimes than that may be ok according to someone elses morals/code.
For example, I recently saw a documentary of a bank robber who thought robbing banks was ok as long as nobody got hurt.
All that said, I do believe the vast majority of us are more law-abiding than the average NT.

/Mats


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FranzOren
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22 Jun 2021, 2:56 pm

Thank you all, I understood. It makes sense.



FranzOren
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22 Jun 2021, 4:13 pm

I think we should edit this Wikipedia page about HFA and crime. I will do more research about it and see if there is any connection, because what Wikipedia and the professor said about HFA and crime is very confusing. I will change it on Friday.



FranzOren
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22 Jun 2021, 7:03 pm

Are there some reports of people with Low-functioning Autism that commit crimes in rare cases? Because having Low-functioning Autism causes you not to know what is legal or not legal to do. I think there should be more studies about LFA and crime, than HFA.

There are some reports that might and studies that might not be official, that point out that some people with Low-functioning Autism commit crimes in rare cases, because they also have low IQ that prevents them from understanding what is legal and what is not legal to do, but even people with Low-functioning Autism are ten times more likely to be victims than the general population.

I am sorry if I mixed that cases together. I hope you know what I mean.



FranzOren
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22 Jun 2021, 7:04 pm

I edited and fixed the errors on Wikipedia, I hope that my answer helps there helps a lot to remove of the confusion.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High-func ... m#Behavior



The_Znof
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13 Jul 2021, 6:01 pm

Good Job Franz!

This study may be worth a look, it is a chief source of the botched minority report style witch hunt going on at the HFA wiki.

Quote:
Three specific deficits characteristic of individuals with ASDs (theory of mind, emotion regulation, and moral reasoning) are examined as potential confluent forces leading to criminal behavior among individuals with ASDs. Legal and policy recommendations are presented.

http://jaapl.org/content/40/2/177.long

this one is linked to in it, and well worth a look on its own, esp considering the closing sentence:

Quote:
Impaired moral judgment is associated with distinct neural systems, including the right temporal parietal junction4. Gabrieli says his group is working on an imaging study focusing on which brain regions are active in these individuals while they are engaged in moral reasoning.

They’d better work quickly: Frith predicts that the utility of the new test may be limited. “I have no doubt that the Asperger’s community will get hold of the test, study it, and learn the scenarios,” she says.


https://www.spectrumnews.org/news/mind- ... in-autism/



FranzOren
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13 Jul 2021, 6:41 pm

It makes sense.



The_Znof
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15 Jul 2021, 3:31 pm

I went to see who this Frith person was, expecting some mid level idiot at best, but..

https://www.thebritishacademy.ac.uk/pub ... interview/

I would expect somebody that important to abstain from such self incriminating statements as we have in this thread by her.

Quote:
They’d better work quickly: Frith predicts that the utility of the new test may be limited. “I have no doubt that the Asperger’s community will get hold of the test, study it, and learn the scenarios,” she says.


i mean, this is not the perfect picture of the impartial scientist here, is it? :jester:

and these are the people saying we lack theory of f*****g mind?



FranzOren
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15 Jul 2021, 5:51 pm

I understood.



The_Znof
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17 Jul 2021, 1:38 pm

Im about halfway through Uta Frith's book "Autism, Unraveling the Enigma"

For a while it seemed quite neuteral, leaving me suprised it was the same person who had made the comment I complained about above,

But now some disturbing stuff is jumping out.

The only good thing is it seems easy to point out her bias and weak 'science'

She worries about the asperger community getting hold of her test and gaming it, all 25 of them?

Thats right, she only used 25 humans to generalize autistics are sub human, so how is she speaking of, an autistic community? How did these 25 get picked? or are the 25 the whole community?

This is another example of what I meant by "shoddy research" when talking about Sam, but Uta is a way bigger problem than Sam.

Shes the one gaming tests, showing a profound lack of empathy in real life in her dedication to dehumanizing a group of people - I smell Narc..

I have been thinking about this quote a lot, by expanding the context it gets pretty screwy for sure

Quote:
The study doesn’t explain whether high-functioning adults with autism truly understand false beliefs over time, or whether they merely learn to solve the tasks, Bernier notes. But it does suggest that in the case of the moral scenarios, their ability to reason is not just delayed, but absent entirely. “If these are delays, they are persistent delays that last well into adulthood for people with typical cognitive ability,” he says.

[b]Frith says she is delighted that these researchers have come up with a strategy that validates the theory she helped develop 25 years ago.[/b] “It does make sense of the social behavior,” she says, “and it can be linked up to certain abnormal activations in the brain.”

Impaired moral judgment is associated with distinct neural systems, including the right temporal parietal junction4. Gabrieli says his group is working on an imaging study focusing on which brain regions are active in these individuals while they are engaged in moral reasoning.

They’d better work quickly: Frith predicts that the utility of the new test may be limited. “I have no doubt that the Asperger’s community will get hold of the test, study it, and learn the scenarios,” she says.


how delighful Utah!, were not human here! gee thanks!

I will be back to elaborate

Image



FranzOren
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17 Jul 2021, 3:11 pm

I trust Google Scholar more when it comes to finding out the link between ASD and crime.

Studies in Google Scholar states that most people with ASD are ten times more likely to be victims and five times less likely to commit crimes than the general population.

Few studies that linked HFA to crime are not that peer reviewed yet and there needs to be more explanation to why few of those studies linked HFA to crime.



Harry Haller
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17 Jul 2021, 5:20 pm

They might be making it up. (You know, academics need to publish to survive and want to be famous)

It would have to exist in the overlap between two disciplines, medicine and law -- and there is just nothing in DSM or ICD about "Criminal Autistic Psychopathy," for starters.

Have some professional forensics experience examining folks accused of crime, and overwhelmingly these are people who have damage to the part of the brain responsible for putting the "brakes" on impulses. So they want to hit the po-lice-man, but the part that says "don't do that" isn't properly working. (This is also the part of the brain - orbitofrontal cortex - that gets anaesthetised first by ethanol, which is why bar fights)

The really scary ones are psychopaths - entire regions of the brain responsible for ethics sociability fear and consequence are just not operating; but the planning/thinking parts of the brain are totally online.

https://www.theatlantic.com/health/arch ... th/282271/
(There's also a few interesting videos, query "James Fallon")

Some speculation that the dumb psychopaths go to prison, but the smart ones become CEO's

Yeah but, autism spectrum and criminality? Skeptical