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funeralxempire
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28 Jul 2021, 12:40 pm

Mona Pereth wrote:
Does anyone have any ideas for a good, clearer synonym for what is generally meant by "toxic masculinity" but clearly not referring to "masculinity" in general?


Needledickery? 8)


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funeralxempire
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28 Jul 2021, 12:45 pm

Mikah wrote:
I haven't watched the video yet, but going by the title alone - this is contrary to multiple studies that have attempted to look at these things somewhat scientifically. The Right are usually happier, have less mental health problems and do better on many similar "life metrics" which are fashionable to study.

https://thefederalist.com/2019/11/04/re ... -liberals/


I'd suggest you watch the video. It's basically commenting on how poor concepts of masculinity lead to some men becoming emotionally stunted and how being emotionally stunted and misogynistic, and surrounding yourself with similar (like MGTOW, incels and similar red pill types) leads to depression and anger.


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28 Jul 2021, 1:09 pm

Does it also address the fact that some people use catch-phrases like "toxic masculinity" as a scapegoat to demonise men, and hide their latent misandry? That's a serious question, not tongue-in-cheek. I watched some of the video but it didn't seem to address the whole problem.



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28 Jul 2021, 1:14 pm

Because they get often get banned on this site. :)

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28 Jul 2021, 1:20 pm

IsabellaLinton wrote:
Does it also address the fact that some people use catch-phrases like "toxic masculinity" as a scapegoat to demonise men, and hide their latent misandry?
Like when a man gets called a "toxic male" for sticking to the facts instead of apologizing for being right?


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28 Jul 2021, 1:24 pm

IsabellaLinton wrote:
Does it also address the fact that some people use catch-phrases like "toxic masculinity" as a scapegoat to demonise men, and hide their latent misandry? That's a serious question, not tongue-in-cheek. I watched some of the video but it didn't seem to address the whole problem.


Toxic masculinity =/= masculinity.

Is there "toxic femininity?" In my opinion, yes.


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28 Jul 2021, 1:26 pm

Fnord wrote:
IsabellaLinton wrote:
Does it also address the fact that some people use catch-phrases like "toxic masculinity" as a scapegoat to demonise men, and hide their latent misandry?
Like when a man gets called a "toxic male" for sticking to the facts instead of apologizing for being right?


When men get called "toxic male" for any misguided reason, when they are shamed for being male, or when there's a War on Testosterone suggesting half the world's population is automatically violent or less enlightened than the other.



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28 Jul 2021, 1:29 pm

XFilesGeek wrote:
IsabellaLinton wrote:
Does it also address the fact that some people use catch-phrases like "toxic masculinity" as a scapegoat to demonise men, and hide their latent misandry? That's a serious question, not tongue-in-cheek. I watched some of the video but it didn't seem to address the whole problem.


Toxic masculinity =/= masculinity.

Is there "toxic femininity?" In my opinion, yes.


So, any masculinity is toxic. Wow!


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28 Jul 2021, 1:31 pm

funeralxempire wrote:
Mona Pereth wrote:
Does anyone have any ideas for a good, clearer synonym for what is generally meant by "toxic masculinity" but clearly not referring to "masculinity" in general?


Needledickery? 8)


Thanks Mona. That's what I'm looking for as well.

If toxic masculinity means:

sexism --- call it toxic sexism
violence -- call it violence
not crying because of gender expectations -- call it toxic socialisation
not crying because that's their natural personality -- call it human or call it Alexithymia



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28 Jul 2021, 1:33 pm

Mona Pereth wrote:
funeralxempire wrote:
The thing is toxic masculinity refers to a specific problem related to our cultural attitudes towards what makes one masculine, and the phrases you propose don't address that aspect.

Agreed. However, to refer to a specific problem (or a specific set of problems), perhaps it might be better to have a more specific word than "toxic." The word "toxic" has been used to mean all sorts of things, and has essentially come to mean "anything the speaker/writer really hates."

Does anyone have any ideas for a good, clearer synonym for what is generally meant by "toxic masculinity" but clearly not referring to "masculinity" in general?


The toxic subset of masculinity, and not all masculinity?

Go Latino. "Macho"? Or "machismo" (meaning 'taking macho to the extreme')?



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28 Jul 2021, 1:34 pm

IsabellaLinton wrote:
Fnord wrote:
IsabellaLinton wrote:
Does it also address the fact that some people use catch-phrases like "toxic masculinity" as a scapegoat to demonise men, and hide their latent misandry?
Like when a man gets called a "toxic male" for sticking to the facts instead of apologizing for being right?
When men get called "toxic male" for any misguided reason, when they are shamed for being male, or when there's a War on Testosterone suggesting half the world's population is automatically violent or less enlightened than the other.
This is when a small minority of people declare any masculine behavior as 'toxic'.


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28 Jul 2021, 1:35 pm

IsabellaLinton wrote:
funeralxempire wrote:
Mona Pereth wrote:
Does anyone have any ideas for a good, clearer synonym for what is generally meant by "toxic masculinity" but clearly not referring to "masculinity" in general?


Needledickery? 8)


Thanks Mona. That's what I'm looking for as well.

If toxic masculinity means:

sexism --- call it toxic sexism
violence -- call it violence
not crying because of gender expectations -- call it toxic socialisation
not crying because that's their natural personality -- call it human or call it Alexithymia


That all makes perfect sense.


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28 Jul 2021, 1:45 pm

IsabellaLinton wrote:
Fnord wrote:
IsabellaLinton wrote:
Does it also address the fact that some people use catch-phrases like "toxic masculinity" as a scapegoat to demonise men, and hide their latent misandry?
Like when a man gets called a "toxic male" for sticking to the facts instead of apologizing for being right?


When men get called "toxic male" for any misguided reason, when they are shamed for being male, or when there's a War on Testosterone suggesting half the world's population is automatically violent or less enlightened than the other.


Where? I haven't seen any of this in the feminist spaces I frequent. Care to link some examples?


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IsabellaLinton
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28 Jul 2021, 1:47 pm

VegetableMan wrote:
XFilesGeek wrote:
IsabellaLinton wrote:
Does it also address the fact that some people use catch-phrases like "toxic masculinity" as a scapegoat to demonise men, and hide their latent misandry? That's a serious question, not tongue-in-cheek. I watched some of the video but it didn't seem to address the whole problem.


Toxic masculinity =/= masculinity.

Is there "toxic femininity?" In my opinion, yes.


So, any masculinity is toxic. Wow!


Veg,
I believe =/= means "not equal". XFG is reaffirming that masculinity isn't necessarily toxic. We all seem to know this and agree. My point has been that the phrase is being overused in society to an extent that it's lost its meaning. An increasing number of people use the term to shame any masculine behaviour and to cancel one segment of the world's population. Women can be either end of the gender spectrum. Men can only be closer to centre, or they get ridiculed in the media.

That's my opinion and observation, anyway.



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28 Jul 2021, 1:53 pm

IsabellaLinton wrote:
VegetableMan wrote:
XFilesGeek wrote:
IsabellaLinton wrote:
Does it also address the fact that some people use catch-phrases like "toxic masculinity" as a scapegoat to demonise men, and hide their latent misandry? That's a serious question, not tongue-in-cheek. I watched some of the video but it didn't seem to address the whole problem.


Toxic masculinity =/= masculinity.

Is there "toxic femininity?" In my opinion, yes.


So, any masculinity is toxic. Wow!


Veg,
I believe =/= means "not equal". XFG is reaffirming that masculinity isn't necessarily toxic. We all seem to know this and agree. My point has been that the phrase is being overused in society to an extent that it's lost its meaning. An increasing number of people use the term to shame any masculine behaviour and to cancel one segment of the world's population. Women can be either end of the gender spectrum. Men can only be closer to centre, or they get ridiculed in the media.

That's my opinion and observation, anyway.


Ah, alright. I didn't pay close enough attention to the symbol. My apologies to XFG.


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XFilesGeek
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28 Jul 2021, 1:57 pm

^ No problem.


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