The end of America's era of 'Nation Building'

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VegetableMan
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31 Aug 2021, 7:21 pm

DW_a_mom wrote:
VegetableMan wrote:
DW_a_mom wrote:
VegetableMan wrote:
Biden is anti-war? Are you serious? Can you provide evidence that backs up that claim?


It is my understanding that he was pushing for us to get out of Vietnam long before we did, and has been pushing for us to get out of Afghanistan since 2011, if I have the year right. He has long professed regret about authorizing the wars in the Middle East. What do you have as evidence otherwise?


Expressing regret for the the ME wars doesn't hold much water. As far as the Vietnam War, he was very young at the time. He voted in favor of the Iraq War and he supported all the five wars Obama got us into.

He's already bombed Syria twice and has also bombed Somalia. That doesn't sound particularly anti-war to me.


Sitting in the seat of the presidency changes instincts. Sometimes there doesn’t seem to be any response besides dropping a bomb. There is a difference between leaders who pragmatically follow the recommendations of their military advisors and those that seem eager to prove themselves through war, but it takes being personal close to someone to really know which they are. From what I’ve read, Biden is capable of being the former, but prefers to stay out of war. I haven’t heard anyone suggest he is the later. You feel his track record says differently. I guess that puts us at a stalemate; I don’t think there is any way for either of us to prove where his heart is.


Only time will tell. But he's already filled his cabinet with "pro-war hawks." That doesn't bode well for the future.

https://jacobinmag.com/2020/11/joe-bide ... -war-hawks


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Pepe
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31 Aug 2021, 8:40 pm

King0fSpades wrote:
https://www.cnbc.com/2021/08/31/biden-addresses-the-end-of-the-us-war-in-afghanistan.html


Maybe Americans need to quit meddling in other countries and work on repairing the mess in our own country? Just a thought.


Every major sovereign interference has failed, hasn't it?
Vietnam, Iraq, Afghanistan.
Hopefully, they have learnt by now. 8)


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Pepe
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31 Aug 2021, 8:46 pm

VegetableMan wrote:
King0fSpades wrote:
VegetableMan wrote:
It remains to be seen whether he means what he says. I'm highly sceptical. He has always served the Military Industrial Complex throughout his political career.


Even if he does mean what he says... who's to say the next guy who replaces him in the oval office wont be part of another big mess like this?


The wars will continue until enough Americans rise up and say, "No more!"


Poll reports I have heard identified that overwhelmingly, Amerians wanted to get out of Afghanistan.
*Both* parties serviced the desire of the majority, assuming the polls are accurate, so both Trump and Biden conceded to their wishes.
It is gobsmacking that people don't realise this and blame one individual, over the other, for the withdrawal.
A lot of odd people in the world. 8)


_________________
Laughter is the best medicine. Age-appropriate behaviour is an arbitrary NT social construct.
Don't tell me white lies. Gaslight me at your peril. Don't give me your bad attitude. Hypnosis, psychosis. Tomarto, tomayto. There are *4* lights. Honey badger.
If I'm so bad, pass me by. ;)


And one more thing,


"A stranger is a friend gang-stalker you haven't met yet." Humour is not meant to be taken seriously, yet many pervert its intent.
Truth may be inconvenient but it is never politically incorrect...The Oracle of Truth has spoken...8)


I luv KFC!


Pepe
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31 Aug 2021, 8:49 pm

King0fSpades wrote:
VegetableMan wrote:
King0fSpades wrote:
VegetableMan wrote:
It remains to be seen whether he means what he says. I'm highly sceptical. He has always served the Military Industrial Complex throughout his political career.


Even if he does mean what he says... who's to say the next guy who replaces him in the oval office wont be part of another big mess like this?


The wars will continue until enough Americans rise up and say, "No more!"


Let's just hope we dont wind up fighting amongst ourselves. :heart:


Irony?
Presumably. 8)

But I will say it anyway: You guys already are! 8O


_________________
Laughter is the best medicine. Age-appropriate behaviour is an arbitrary NT social construct.
Don't tell me white lies. Gaslight me at your peril. Don't give me your bad attitude. Hypnosis, psychosis. Tomarto, tomayto. There are *4* lights. Honey badger.
If I'm so bad, pass me by. ;)


And one more thing,


"A stranger is a friend gang-stalker you haven't met yet." Humour is not meant to be taken seriously, yet many pervert its intent.
Truth may be inconvenient but it is never politically incorrect...The Oracle of Truth has spoken...8)


I luv KFC!


King0fSpades
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31 Aug 2021, 8:50 pm

Pepe wrote:
King0fSpades wrote:
VegetableMan wrote:
King0fSpades wrote:
VegetableMan wrote:
It remains to be seen whether he means what he says. I'm highly sceptical. He has always served the Military Industrial Complex throughout his political career.


Even if he does mean what he says... who's to say the next guy who replaces him in the oval office wont be part of another big mess like this?


The wars will continue until enough Americans rise up and say, "No more!"


Let's just hope we dont wind up fighting amongst ourselves. :heart:


Irony?
Presumably. 8)

But I will say it anyway: You guys already are! 8O



I mean Civil War-style


One was enough!


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Pepe
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31 Aug 2021, 8:51 pm

VegetableMan wrote:
DW_a_mom wrote:
King0fSpades wrote:
VegetableMan wrote:
It remains to be seen whether he means what he says. I'm highly skeptical. He has always served the Military Industrial Complex throughout his political career.


Even if he does mean what he says... who's to say the next guy who replaces him in the oval office wont be part of another big mess like this?


One problem is that Americans tend to re-elect presidents when there is a security threat facing the nation, so presidents that want to be re-elected have incentive to manufacture a conflict and start war.

Biden has a history of being pretty anti-war (even if he is content spending money to prepare for war). And he's old. But who knows what the political landscape will look like in a year.


Biden is anti-war? Are you serious? Can you provide evidence that backs up that claim?


I'd like this to be made clear, also.
What I *do* know is that Trump was definitely anti-war.

Not supporting the guy, just saying it as I see it. 8)


_________________
Laughter is the best medicine. Age-appropriate behaviour is an arbitrary NT social construct.
Don't tell me white lies. Gaslight me at your peril. Don't give me your bad attitude. Hypnosis, psychosis. Tomarto, tomayto. There are *4* lights. Honey badger.
If I'm so bad, pass me by. ;)


And one more thing,


"A stranger is a friend gang-stalker you haven't met yet." Humour is not meant to be taken seriously, yet many pervert its intent.
Truth may be inconvenient but it is never politically incorrect...The Oracle of Truth has spoken...8)


I luv KFC!


Pepe
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31 Aug 2021, 8:53 pm

King0fSpades wrote:
Pepe wrote:
King0fSpades wrote:
VegetableMan wrote:
King0fSpades wrote:
VegetableMan wrote:
It remains to be seen whether he means what he says. I'm highly sceptical. He has always served the Military Industrial Complex throughout his political career.


Even if he does mean what he says... who's to say the next guy who replaces him in the oval office wont be part of another big mess like this?


The wars will continue until enough Americans rise up and say, "No more!"


Let's just hope we dont wind up fighting amongst ourselves. :heart:


Irony?
Presumably. 8)

But I will say it anyway: You guys already are! 8O



I mean Civil War-style


One was enough!


"Oh, ok."

You do realise there is a major *social* war ripping America apart right now, right? :scratch:


_________________
Laughter is the best medicine. Age-appropriate behaviour is an arbitrary NT social construct.
Don't tell me white lies. Gaslight me at your peril. Don't give me your bad attitude. Hypnosis, psychosis. Tomarto, tomayto. There are *4* lights. Honey badger.
If I'm so bad, pass me by. ;)


And one more thing,


"A stranger is a friend gang-stalker you haven't met yet." Humour is not meant to be taken seriously, yet many pervert its intent.
Truth may be inconvenient but it is never politically incorrect...The Oracle of Truth has spoken...8)


I luv KFC!


DW_a_mom
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31 Aug 2021, 8:56 pm

Pepe wrote:

I'd like this to be made clear, also.
What I *do* know is that Trump was definitely anti-war.

Not supporting the guy, just saying it as I see it. 8)


The way I see it: Trump is pro-Trump. If being anti-war gets him what he wants, he is anti-war. If being pro-war gets him what he wants, he’ll be pro-war. What he wanted as president was to hold power and stay president.


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Pepe
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31 Aug 2021, 8:56 pm

King0fSpades wrote:
cyberdad wrote:
King0fSpades wrote:
https://www.cnbc.com/2021/08/31/biden-addresses-the-end-of-the-us-war-in-afghanistan.html


Maybe Americans need to quit meddling in other countries and work on repairing the mess in our own country? Just a thought.


This seems to be a positive step in the right direction. First time since 2015 the US has a proper leader.


I still worry about Biden's leadership abilities and while I do think the evacuation process in Afghanistan was a complete blunder I think Biden does have the right idea. I mean why did people expect Americans to just keep sacrificing lives and waste money in that country forever? We were going to have to leave sooner or later...

I think it was a very painful thing for the world to watch but hopefully it will be a step in the right direction for the US. We're having some serious problems in our own country right now and we really need to try and fix them before things get worse.


Withdrawing from Afghanistan wasn't the problem.
The way it was done under Biden was. 8)


_________________
Laughter is the best medicine. Age-appropriate behaviour is an arbitrary NT social construct.
Don't tell me white lies. Gaslight me at your peril. Don't give me your bad attitude. Hypnosis, psychosis. Tomarto, tomayto. There are *4* lights. Honey badger.
If I'm so bad, pass me by. ;)


And one more thing,


"A stranger is a friend gang-stalker you haven't met yet." Humour is not meant to be taken seriously, yet many pervert its intent.
Truth may be inconvenient but it is never politically incorrect...The Oracle of Truth has spoken...8)


I luv KFC!


Pepe
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31 Aug 2021, 9:03 pm

DW_a_mom wrote:
Pepe wrote:

I'd like this to be made clear, also.
What I *do* know is that Trump was definitely anti-war.

Not supporting the guy, just saying it as I see it. 8)


The way I see it: Trump is pro-Trump. If being anti-war gets him what he wants, he is anti-war. If being pro-war gets him what he wants, he’ll be pro-war. What he wanted as president was to hold power and stay president.


I thought we agreed we weren't good for each other. :mrgreen:

Yes, Trump is for Trump, but he also wanted to make America economically strong again which meant ceasing the multiple billions of taxpayer money going up in ordinance smoke.

I heard a disturbing report that in the 20 years of the Afghanistan occupation, America spent 330 million dollars *A DAY* for that *20* years!! !
This is a staggering amount and I wouldn't be surprised if I misheard the amount/time.
Please correct me if I am mistaken. 8)


_________________
Laughter is the best medicine. Age-appropriate behaviour is an arbitrary NT social construct.
Don't tell me white lies. Gaslight me at your peril. Don't give me your bad attitude. Hypnosis, psychosis. Tomarto, tomayto. There are *4* lights. Honey badger.
If I'm so bad, pass me by. ;)


And one more thing,


"A stranger is a friend gang-stalker you haven't met yet." Humour is not meant to be taken seriously, yet many pervert its intent.
Truth may be inconvenient but it is never politically incorrect...The Oracle of Truth has spoken...8)


I luv KFC!


Pepe
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31 Aug 2021, 9:07 pm

VegetableMan wrote:
cyberdad wrote:
VegetableMan wrote:
Biden is anti-war? Are you serious? Can you provide evidence that backs up that claim?


Hmmm sounds like you hate him whether he engages in war "Biden is a war monger" or if he pulls troops out of Afghanistan "Biden did the wrong thing"

I'm afraid you can't have it both ways.


You are clueless. Stick to Australian politics.


I'm afraid, my friend, there is little no chance of that, unfortunately. :mrgreen:
I just ignore his posts. 8)


_________________
Laughter is the best medicine. Age-appropriate behaviour is an arbitrary NT social construct.
Don't tell me white lies. Gaslight me at your peril. Don't give me your bad attitude. Hypnosis, psychosis. Tomarto, tomayto. There are *4* lights. Honey badger.
If I'm so bad, pass me by. ;)


And one more thing,


"A stranger is a friend gang-stalker you haven't met yet." Humour is not meant to be taken seriously, yet many pervert its intent.
Truth may be inconvenient but it is never politically incorrect...The Oracle of Truth has spoken...8)


I luv KFC!


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31 Aug 2021, 9:19 pm

Yes, a country that can't seem to agree amongst itself has no business meddling in the affairs of other countries. Besides, the Middle East is going to tear itself apart one way or another, with or without external intervention. At best, the inevitable is being delayed, but at what cost? I take issue with how the withdrawal was handled, but wholeheartedly support it otherwise.



Pepe
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31 Aug 2021, 9:37 pm

Tross wrote:
Yes, a country that can't seem to agree amongst itself has no business meddling in the affairs of other countries. Besides, the Middle East is going to tear itself apart one way or another, with or without external intervention. At best, the inevitable is being delayed, but at what cost? I take issue with how the withdrawal was handled, but wholeheartedly support it otherwise.


As a side note, Bush senior was too smart to invade Iraq.
Bush Jr was not and that ill-fated decision directly led to the ISIS tragedy. 8)

Listen to the skunk. He is wise beyond his species. 8)


_________________
Laughter is the best medicine. Age-appropriate behaviour is an arbitrary NT social construct.
Don't tell me white lies. Gaslight me at your peril. Don't give me your bad attitude. Hypnosis, psychosis. Tomarto, tomayto. There are *4* lights. Honey badger.
If I'm so bad, pass me by. ;)


And one more thing,


"A stranger is a friend gang-stalker you haven't met yet." Humour is not meant to be taken seriously, yet many pervert its intent.
Truth may be inconvenient but it is never politically incorrect...The Oracle of Truth has spoken...8)


I luv KFC!


King0fSpades
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31 Aug 2021, 9:43 pm

Pepe wrote:
King0fSpades wrote:
Pepe wrote:
King0fSpades wrote:
VegetableMan wrote:
King0fSpades wrote:
VegetableMan wrote:
It remains to be seen whether he means what he says. I'm highly sceptical. He has always served the Military Industrial Complex throughout his political career.


Even if he does mean what he says... who's to say the next guy who replaces him in the oval office wont be part of another big mess like this?


The wars will continue until enough Americans rise up and say, "No more!"


Let's just hope we dont wind up fighting amongst ourselves. :heart:


Irony?
Presumably. 8)

But I will say it anyway: You guys already are! 8O



I mean Civil War-style


One was enough!


"Oh, ok."

You do realise there is a major *social* war ripping America apart right now, right? :scratch:



Of course I do, but it's still not a true civil war...yet


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cyberdad
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31 Aug 2021, 10:21 pm

King0fSpades wrote:
I still worry about Biden's leadership abilities and while I do think the evacuation process in Afghanistan was a complete blunder I think Biden does have the right idea. I mean why did people expect Americans to just keep sacrificing lives and waste money in that country forever? We were going to have to leave sooner or later...

I think it was a very painful thing for the world to watch but hopefully it will be a step in the right direction for the US. We're having some serious problems in our own country right now and we really need to try and fix them before things get worse.


I think the decision to pull troops was in line with Biden's previous philosophy toward deescalating US military involvement overseas. I tend to think if the US didn't do a knee jerk reaction in sending troops to Iraq and Afghanistan in response to 9-11 (when they should have attacked the real culprits Saudi Arabia and Pakistan) then none of this would be necessary.



Pepe
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01 Sep 2021, 2:13 am

King0fSpades wrote:
Pepe wrote:
King0fSpades wrote:
Pepe wrote:
King0fSpades wrote:
VegetableMan wrote:
King0fSpades wrote:
VegetableMan wrote:
It remains to be seen whether he means what he says. I'm highly sceptical. He has always served the Military Industrial Complex throughout his political career.


Even if he does mean what he says... who's to say the next guy who replaces him in the oval office wont be part of another big mess like this?


The wars will continue until enough Americans rise up and say, "No more!"


Let's just hope we dont wind up fighting amongst ourselves. :heart:


Irony?
Presumably. 8)

But I will say it anyway: You guys already are! 8O



I mean Civil War-style


One was enough!


"Oh, ok."

You do realise there is a major *social* war ripping America apart right now, right? :scratch:



Of course I do, but it's still not a true civil war...yet


But wasn't there an *insurrection*? :scratch:
An attempted revolution?

Oh, that's right.
It wasn't an "insurrection".
It was a violent Capitol Hill protest/riot. :wink:

I was being satirical.

Quote:
Can satire be serious?
The rules of satire are such that it must do more than make you laugh. ... Even light-hearted satire has a serious "after-taste": the organizers of the Ig Nobel Prize describe this as "first make people laugh, and then make them think".

Satire - Wikipedia


8)


_________________
Laughter is the best medicine. Age-appropriate behaviour is an arbitrary NT social construct.
Don't tell me white lies. Gaslight me at your peril. Don't give me your bad attitude. Hypnosis, psychosis. Tomarto, tomayto. There are *4* lights. Honey badger.
If I'm so bad, pass me by. ;)


And one more thing,


"A stranger is a friend gang-stalker you haven't met yet." Humour is not meant to be taken seriously, yet many pervert its intent.
Truth may be inconvenient but it is never politically incorrect...The Oracle of Truth has spoken...8)


I luv KFC!