When insanity is collective: UK voting to starve...

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Joined: 17 Aug 2021
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19 Sep 2021, 2:41 pm

So, not sure there's many who'd literally admit that that's why they voted for... but with politicians saying that problems can't be solved due to the brexit vote... that can only translate to voters choosing to, at the worst, starve... but what do politicians think will happen? I suppose this is kind of a Mike Pence situation, when he thought they wouldn't really hang him because he's from the 'same party'... despite shouting that out. And the UK Conservatives think that... what, they can just steal all the money possible before... they just escape, presumably? Why do they always assume they can, though? I can only imagine that French aristocrats also had the means to go abroad before they were caught in the revolution... why do politicians play with fire? Especially such fire as to actually leave people to starve? Heck, I imagine brexit voters will be the first in line to get their anger out... because, of course, they would say they never voted to starve, and I'm sure some/many voted with the delusion that things would become better, not worse, but they can never possibly connect the dots...

Of course, it's still early days, when only a few things are missing... but if they keep refusing to resolve the problem, then what can happen except become worse?


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Joined: 23 Oct 2015
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Location: England

19 Sep 2021, 3:08 pm

If you're referring to the driver/other staffing shortages, Brexit is only a minor part of it. Other parts of the EU, including France and Germany are seeing a shortage of critical staff too. Damned if I can find the link again, but some newspaper had a decent go at analysing the problem. The "Brexit factor" in the driver shortage was estimated to be about at most 15-20% of the 100,000 or so we are short (this assumes all these drivers left because of Brexit and not to be with their families during Corona). Most of the shortage appears to be a sudden lack of native UK drivers who either enjoyed not driving so much during lockdown they didn't come back to the job or simply found better jobs. There are similar staffing problems everywhere in the supply chain, all over the continent. While access to EU labour may have mitigated the problem in a minor way, it would not have solved it.

As it will be in the future, it was at the birth of Man -
There are only four things certain since Social Progress began: -
That the Dog returns to his Vomit and the Sow returns to her Mire,
And the burnt Fool’s bandaged finger goes wabbling back to the Fire;

And that after this is accomplished, and the brave new world begins
When all men are paid for existing and no man must pay for his sins,
As surely as Water will wet us, as surely as Fire will burn,
The Gods of the Copybook Headings with terror and slaughter return!


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Joined: 22 Jan 2012
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20 Sep 2021, 1:52 pm

As an outsider, forgive me if everything I say is way off-base, but it sounds to me like the situation in the UK is complex, and there's no 100% perfect solution. Being part of the EU seems to have its pros, but it also seems to have significant cons. Of course, leaving also seems to have its pros and cons. Moreover, making any kind of transition like that is sure to be messy at best, and that's assuming it's handled competently and over a proper timeline. I can see both sides of the argument, TBH.

Of course, living far, far away from your country is probably what allows me to be so neutral. Still, I find this stuff interesting and I suppose weighing in on this is no different than when I weigh in on US politics (which is also not my country). At the end of the day, the right solution is something only the UK government can decide.


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Joined: 13 Oct 2011
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30 Sep 2021, 5:59 am

The driver shortages have been affecting the global road freight market for around 15 years. The issue comes as the pool of truck drivers is contracting but demand for transport is rising. The COVID-19 pandemic has further exacerbated the already alarming issue of driver shortages as new drivers have been unable to train and take their tests and Covid restrictions make the job even less attractive.

Even before the pandemic a serious cause for concern in the industry, the lack of drivers in the road transport industry was at an all-time high with many of its underlying issues being long-term challenges. Factors such as an aging workforce and insufficient numbers of new recruits, due to working conditions and image issues of the profession, have been plaguing the industry for many years.

Ti’s latest research paper on European Driver Shortages assesses the scale of the crisis across Europe and examines the policies, strategies and technologies being proposed and implemented by regulators and road freight operators to help alleviate the crisis.

Poland: According to Ti estimates, the shortage in Poland in 2020 is around 124,000 drivers. According to IRU, Poland is one of the most heavily impacted European countries and driver shortage in 2020 stands at around 37%.

UK: The shortfall of truck drivers in 2020 is estimated at 60,000-76,000. The RHA estimates that there is currently a shortfall of about 60,000 hauliers in the UK. According to data from the Q2 Labour Force Survey for 2020, the calculated shortfall is even higher than RHA estimates and stands at around 76,000.

Germany: Between 45,000 and 60,000 truck drivers are ‘missing’ in 2020 in the German market alone, according to the DSLV and BGL, and this number is only increasing. The IRU predicts a gap of 185,000 drivers by 2027 in Germany.

France: In 2019 it has been reported by several news outlets that France is experiencing a shortage of approximately 43,000 drivers.

Spain: According to Ti estimates, the shortfall of truck drivers in Spain was 15,340 in 2020.

Italy: The shortfall in Italy in 2019 was estimated at around 15,000 drivers according to various sources including National newspaper Corriere della Sera. 4 European Driver Shortages

Denmark, Norway & Sweden: The Scandinavian countries figures are not as high, but the shortage of drivers has spread across Europe. The shortage figures from 2017 for Sweden, Denmark and Norway are 5,000, 2,500 and 3,000, respectively.

Belarus: In 2019, it was estimated that there is a shortage of 4,500 drivers in Belarus.

Ukraine: The deficit of drivers in Ukraine in 2019 ranged from 12,000 to 120,000 depending on the region.


Joined: 18 Jan 2017
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30 Sep 2021, 9:28 am

Aw man, what a time to have a disability that prevents driving... if I wasn't disabled, I might be able to make decent money as a truck driver. :lol:


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Joined: 26 Aug 2010
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01 Oct 2021, 4:55 am

Today the headline is "truck driver shortage".

Tomorrow the headlines will be "Elon Musk puts all truck drivers out of work with new self driving trucks".