The America Medical and Psychological Associations are woke

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ASPartOfMe
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08 Nov 2021, 6:09 pm

Sweetleaf wrote:
ASPartOfMe wrote:
Relevant treatments occur when the individual is correctly diagnosed. To do that the clinician has to look at the individual as an individual not as a member of a privileged or oppressed group.


Life experiences do matter with diagnosing mental health ailments. You don't think being in a marginalized group would effect mental health?

If anything looking at factors like socio-economic class and if one faces discrimination on the basis of sexuality race or sex would help further individualize treatments for people who face different struggles.

Individual life experiences absolutely matter. Being in a marginalized group makes it more likely one will experience discrimination it does not automatically make it so. Discrimination may be a defining feature for one person's problems, while family dynamics is the main reason or the only reason for a discriminated person's problem.

You have met one person from a marginalized group(s), you have met one person from the same marginalized group(s).


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cyberdad
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08 Nov 2021, 7:16 pm

ASPartOfMe wrote:
Ettina wrote:
ASPartOfMe wrote:
cyberdad wrote:
ASPartOfMe wrote:
cyberdad wrote:
ASPartOfMe wrote:
This will embolden those who believe in woke ideologies but were afraid to put it in their practice to do so.


Really AS? I mean seriously, how the heck is any so called "woketivist" going to take advantage of a strategic plan??? these are largely recommendations.

I was not thinking woketivist but a professional person who agrees with or is sympathetic to CRT but was afraid to rock the boat lest it have career repercussions. That person would now be thinking I have the backing my influential professional organization to implement these recommendations I agree with.


To do what? report a colleague?

To diagnose and treat their patient based on what group they are in and where that group falls on the intersectionality scale.


To provide their patient with more relevant treatment? The horror!

Relevant treatments occur when the individual is correctly diagnosed. To do that the clinician has to look at the individual as an individual not as a member of a privileged or oppressed group.


Diagnosis has nothing to do with the person's background?? you are conflating two completely different issues



cyberdad
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08 Nov 2021, 7:19 pm

Sweetleaf wrote:
ASPartOfMe wrote:
Relevant treatments occur when the individual is correctly diagnosed. To do that the clinician has to look at the individual as an individual not as a member of a privileged or oppressed group.


Life experiences do matter with diagnosing mental health ailments. You don't think being in a marginalized group would effect mental health?

If anything looking at factors like socio-economic class and if one faces discrimination on the basis of sexuality race or sex would help further individualize treatments for people who face different struggles.


On the right track! life experiences might precipitate expression of underlying disorders. Discrimination can result in exacerbation of symptoms. However not sure if the new guidelines really change anything as typically a mental health assessment would require social/family history (in addition to psychiatric/medical history).



ASPartOfMe
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08 Nov 2021, 8:28 pm

cyberdad wrote:
ASPartOfMe wrote:
Ettina wrote:
ASPartOfMe wrote:
cyberdad wrote:
ASPartOfMe wrote:
cyberdad wrote:
ASPartOfMe wrote:
This will embolden those who believe in woke ideologies but were afraid to put it in their practice to do so.


Really AS? I mean seriously, how the heck is any so called "woketivist" going to take advantage of a strategic plan??? these are largely recommendations.

I was not thinking woketivist but a professional person who agrees with or is sympathetic to CRT but was afraid to rock the boat lest it have career repercussions. That person would now be thinking I have the backing my influential professional organization to implement these recommendations I agree with.


To do what? report a colleague?

To diagnose and treat their patient based on what group they are in and where that group falls on the intersectionality scale.


To provide their patient with more relevant treatment? The horror!

Relevant treatments occur when the individual is correctly diagnosed. To do that the clinician has to look at the individual as an individual not as a member of a privileged or oppressed group.


Diagnosis has nothing to do with the person's background?? you are conflating two completely different issues

How can diagnosis and treatment not be conflated since the treatment is based on the diagnoses?


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cyberdad
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08 Nov 2021, 8:33 pm

ASPartOfMe wrote:
cyberdad wrote:
ASPartOfMe wrote:
Ettina wrote:
ASPartOfMe wrote:
cyberdad wrote:
ASPartOfMe wrote:
cyberdad wrote:
ASPartOfMe wrote:
This will embolden those who believe in woke ideologies but were afraid to put it in their practice to do so.


Really AS? I mean seriously, how the heck is any so called "woketivist" going to take advantage of a strategic plan??? these are largely recommendations.

I was not thinking woketivist but a professional person who agrees with or is sympathetic to CRT but was afraid to rock the boat lest it have career repercussions. That person would now be thinking I have the backing my influential professional organization to implement these recommendations I agree with.


To do what? report a colleague?

To diagnose and treat their patient based on what group they are in and where that group falls on the intersectionality scale.


To provide their patient with more relevant treatment? The horror!

Relevant treatments occur when the individual is correctly diagnosed. To do that the clinician has to look at the individual as an individual not as a member of a privileged or oppressed group.


Diagnosis has nothing to do with the person's background?? you are conflating two completely different issues

How can diagnosis and treatment not be conflated since the treatment is based on the diagnoses?


Diagnosing a disorder + providing a treatment has nothing to do with a person's race



ASPartOfMe
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09 Nov 2021, 9:49 am

cyberdad wrote:
ASPartOfMe wrote:
cyberdad wrote:
ASPartOfMe wrote:
Ettina wrote:
ASPartOfMe wrote:
cyberdad wrote:
ASPartOfMe wrote:
cyberdad wrote:
ASPartOfMe wrote:
This will embolden those who believe in woke ideologies but were afraid to put it in their practice to do so.


Really AS? I mean seriously, how the heck is any so called "woketivist" going to take advantage of a strategic plan??? these are largely recommendations.

I was not thinking woketivist but a professional person who agrees with or is sympathetic to CRT but was afraid to rock the boat lest it have career repercussions. That person would now be thinking I have the backing my influential professional organization to implement these recommendations I agree with.


To do what? report a colleague?

To diagnose and treat their patient based on what group they are in and where that group falls on the intersectionality scale.


To provide their patient with more relevant treatment? The horror!

Relevant treatments occur when the individual is correctly diagnosed. To do that the clinician has to look at the individual as an individual not as a member of a privileged or oppressed group.


Diagnosis has nothing to do with the person's background?? you are conflating two completely different issues

How can diagnosis and treatment not be conflated since the treatment is based on the diagnoses?


Diagnosing a disorder + providing a treatment has nothing to do with a person's race

It should not have anything to do with a persons race but it often has.
Black And Latino Children Are Often Overlooked When It Comes To Autism
Striking Delays in Autism Dx Among African-American Kids — Black children also had twice the rate of intellectual disability compared to whites


This discrimination has some of its roots in the rain man stereotype. Blacks do not have twice the rate of intellectual disability. The headline is racist, I assume they meant blacks are diagnosed at twice the rate of whites which indicates plenty of misdiagnosing based on racist stereotypes.

The guidelines in question got the problem right. They have the solution wrong. These guidelines replace the stupid stereotype with the forever oppressed stereotype for blacks. They add the stereotype of privileged oppressor to white patients.

A long while back I mentioned the the lack of diagnosis/delayed diagnosis for blacks on WP thread. A black WP member disagreed. That person at least diagnosis wise probably was not oppressed, it would be wrong to treat her as a oppressed based on her race.


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09 Nov 2021, 10:00 am

It is considered very shameful in the African-American and Hispanic cultures to have any sort of "social disorder" like autism.



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09 Nov 2021, 12:02 pm

ASPartOfMe wrote:
Sweetleaf wrote:
ASPartOfMe wrote:
Relevant treatments occur when the individual is correctly diagnosed. To do that the clinician has to look at the individual as an individual not as a member of a privileged or oppressed group.


Life experiences do matter with diagnosing mental health ailments. You don't think being in a marginalized group would effect mental health?

If anything looking at factors like socio-economic class and if one faces discrimination on the basis of sexuality race or sex would help further individualize treatments for people who face different struggles.

Individual life experiences absolutely matter. Being in a marginalized group makes it more likely one will experience discrimination it does not automatically make it so. Discrimination may be a defining feature for one person's problems, while family dynamics is the main reason or the only reason for a discriminated person's problem.

You have met one person from a marginalized group(s), you have met one person from the same marginalized group(s).


Taking marginalized status into consideration =|= treating every marginalized group member as if they're the same.



ASPartOfMe
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09 Nov 2021, 12:33 pm

Ettina wrote:
ASPartOfMe wrote:
Sweetleaf wrote:
ASPartOfMe wrote:
Relevant treatments occur when the individual is correctly diagnosed. To do that the clinician has to look at the individual as an individual not as a member of a privileged or oppressed group.


Life experiences do matter with diagnosing mental health ailments. You don't think being in a marginalized group would effect mental health?

If anything looking at factors like socio-economic class and if one faces discrimination on the basis of sexuality race or sex would help further individualize treatments for people who face different struggles.

Individual life experiences absolutely matter. Being in a marginalized group makes it more likely one will experience discrimination it does not automatically make it so. Discrimination may be a defining feature for one person's problems, while family dynamics is the main reason or the only reason for a discriminated person's problem.

You have met one person from a marginalized group(s), you have met one person from the same marginalized group(s).


Taking marginalized status into consideration =|= treating every marginalized group member as if they're the same.

If the patient reports discrimination etc, take that into account, don't assume it. CRT upon which these guidelines are clearly based on does not say every member of a group is exactly the same, it does assume oppression or privilege(or both) based on the persons group.


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“My autism is not a superpower. It also isn’t some kind of god-forsaken, endless fountain of suffering inflicted on my family. It’s just part of who I am as a person”. - Sara Luterman


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10 Nov 2021, 1:52 am

ASPartOfMe wrote:
A long while back I mentioned the the lack of diagnosis/delayed diagnosis for blacks on WP thread. A black WP member disagreed. That person at least diagnosis wise probably was not oppressed, it would be wrong to treat her as a oppressed based on her race.


This can be explained by poorer mental health literacy, lower average income, distance from services are among the barriers to accessing mental health services or mental health assessment among black parents

Many of these are not the fault of service providers.



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10 Nov 2021, 2:59 pm

cyberdad wrote:
ASPartOfMe wrote:
A long while back I mentioned the the lack of diagnosis/delayed diagnosis for blacks on WP thread. A black WP member disagreed. That person at least diagnosis wise probably was not oppressed, it would be wrong to treat her as a oppressed based on her race.


This can be explained by poorer mental health literacy, lower average income, distance from services are among the barriers to accessing mental health services or mental health assessment among black parents

Many of these are not the fault of service providers.

Which kind of proves my point, none of the above is about racial oppression per se, so to look at race first before all else as the CRT/anti-racism training worldview is about is will put lower on the priority issues that are more important.


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“My autism is not a superpower. It also isn’t some kind of god-forsaken, endless fountain of suffering inflicted on my family. It’s just part of who I am as a person”. - Sara Luterman


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10 Nov 2021, 4:08 pm

ASPartOfMe wrote:
cyberdad wrote:
ASPartOfMe wrote:
A long while back I mentioned the the lack of diagnosis/delayed diagnosis for blacks on WP thread. A black WP member disagreed. That person at least diagnosis wise probably was not oppressed, it would be wrong to treat her as a oppressed based on her race.


This can be explained by poorer mental health literacy, lower average income, distance from services are among the barriers to accessing mental health services or mental health assessment among black parents

Many of these are not the fault of service providers.

Which kind of proves my point, none of the above is about racial oppression per se, so to look at race first before all else as the CRT/anti-racism training worldview is about is will put lower on the priority issues that are more important.


Two different things.
1. The reason for the disparity is primarily Socioeconomic status
2, The recommendation to service providers is to address disparity in service

The two are mutually exclusive



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10 Nov 2021, 4:29 pm

ASPartOfMe wrote:
Ettina wrote:
ASPartOfMe wrote:
Sweetleaf wrote:
ASPartOfMe wrote:
Relevant treatments occur when the individual is correctly diagnosed. To do that the clinician has to look at the individual as an individual not as a member of a privileged or oppressed group.


Life experiences do matter with diagnosing mental health ailments. You don't think being in a marginalized group would effect mental health?

If anything looking at factors like socio-economic class and if one faces discrimination on the basis of sexuality race or sex would help further individualize treatments for people who face different struggles.

Individual life experiences absolutely matter. Being in a marginalized group makes it more likely one will experience discrimination it does not automatically make it so. Discrimination may be a defining feature for one person's problems, while family dynamics is the main reason or the only reason for a discriminated person's problem.

You have met one person from a marginalized group(s), you have met one person from the same marginalized group(s).


Taking marginalized status into consideration =|= treating every marginalized group member as if they're the same.

If the patient reports discrimination etc, take that into account, don't assume it. CRT upon which these guidelines are clearly based on does not say every member of a group is exactly the same, it does assume oppression or privilege(or both) based on the persons group.


How about you comment on what these guidelines actually say, instead of what you're assuming they secretly mean because you associate them with a theoretical perspective that you have an oversimplified view of?



ASPartOfMe
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10 Nov 2021, 4:32 pm

cyberdad wrote:
ASPartOfMe wrote:
cyberdad wrote:
ASPartOfMe wrote:
A long while back I mentioned the the lack of diagnosis/delayed diagnosis for blacks on WP thread. A black WP member disagreed. That person at least diagnosis wise probably was not oppressed, it would be wrong to treat her as a oppressed based on her race.


This can be explained by poorer mental health literacy, lower average income, distance from services are among the barriers to accessing mental health services or mental health assessment among black parents

Many of these are not the fault of service providers.

Which kind of proves my point, none of the above is about racial oppression per se, so to look at race first before all else as the CRT/anti-racism training worldview is about is will put lower on the priority issues that are more important.


Two different things.
1. The reason for the disparity is primarily Socioeconomic status
2, The recommendation to service providers is to address disparity in service

The two are mutually exclusive

The guidelines are not focused on socioeconomic status as primary causation but race. Focusing on secondary causes may mean missing that there is a disparity in service.


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“My autism is not a superpower. It also isn’t some kind of god-forsaken, endless fountain of suffering inflicted on my family. It’s just part of who I am as a person”. - Sara Luterman


ASPartOfMe
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10 Nov 2021, 4:38 pm

Ettina wrote:
ASPartOfMe wrote:
Ettina wrote:
ASPartOfMe wrote:
Sweetleaf wrote:
ASPartOfMe wrote:
Relevant treatments occur when the individual is correctly diagnosed. To do that the clinician has to look at the individual as an individual not as a member of a privileged or oppressed group.


Life experiences do matter with diagnosing mental health ailments. You don't think being in a marginalized group would effect mental health?

If anything looking at factors like socio-economic class and if one faces discrimination on the basis of sexuality race or sex would help further individualize treatments for people who face different struggles.

Individual life experiences absolutely matter. Being in a marginalized group makes it more likely one will experience discrimination it does not automatically make it so. Discrimination may be a defining feature for one person's problems, while family dynamics is the main reason or the only reason for a discriminated person's problem.

You have met one person from a marginalized group(s), you have met one person from the same marginalized group(s).


Taking marginalized status into consideration =|= treating every marginalized group member as if they're the same.

If the patient reports discrimination etc, take that into account, don't assume it. CRT upon which these guidelines are clearly based on does not say every member of a group is exactly the same, it does assume oppression or privilege(or both) based on the persons group.


How about you comment on what these guidelines actually say, instead of what you're assuming they secretly mean because you associate them with a theoretical perspective that you have an oversimplified view of?


They are NT's writing these guidelines so to assume the literal meaning probably is a mistake. I will go based on how these words at times have been put into practice in recent years. Also psychiatry being used for political suppression has quite the history.

No I am not all doom and gloom about this, you all missed or are ignoring what I said early on in this thread
ASPartOfMe wrote:
I would advise American unwoke members not to panic not because there is nothing to see there, but because many professionals join these type of organizations just for the perks and benefits but do their own thing in their private practice. For instance I have not read of any APA members being thrown out because they do not follow the DSM 5 Autism diagnostic criteria written by the APA. There have been American WP members diagnosed with Aspergers after 2013.

This will embolden those who believe in woke ideologies but were afraid to put it in their practice to do so. Since CRT has been around in academia for decades some of these professionals have been educated at schools where CRT principles are taught. An important benefit for joining an professional association is social gatherings with your peers. This could lead to peer pressure. While these type of mission statements have traditionally been largely virtue signaling in the past it is wrong to assume it will always be so in the future. This ideology emphasizes monitoring for conformity.

When seeing an autism professional it is advisable to be aware if your clinician is diagnosing or treating you based on outdated or quack ideas about autism. When seeing ones medical doctor it is advisable to be cognizant of profit motives. What these new policies means is that in addition we have to be cognizant of being stereotyped as oppressed or privileged and treated for our political beliefs. How much these policies take hold and how long it will take is unknown.


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“My autism is not a superpower. It also isn’t some kind of god-forsaken, endless fountain of suffering inflicted on my family. It’s just part of who I am as a person”. - Sara Luterman


Last edited by ASPartOfMe on 10 Nov 2021, 7:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.

cyberdad
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10 Nov 2021, 6:48 pm

ASPartOfMe wrote:
The guidelines are not focused on socioeconomic status as primary causation but race. Focusing on secondary causes may mean missing that there is a disparity in service.


My point here is that the guidelines are meant to i) help service providers understand that some groups they see as clients/patients who are vulnerable and ii) that they need to be aware if they carry any bias or cultural ignorance when providing services.

This has nothing to do wokeness. There is a health disparity in black, native and hispanic Americans. While there multiple reasons for this disparity, service providers have in the past treated PoC differently to white clients/patients. Following these recommendations will minimise risks of this happening.