Are efforts against covid useless ?

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chris1989
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22 Nov 2021, 6:13 pm

I just seem to feel anything we have done over the past year with this virus has been in vain. It seems to come across that way especially from scientists and other experts and the media, who point out that people are still infecting one another and so on. I myself am frustrated by it and even frustrated with my own anxiety and mindset which keeps telling me ''Look, you have got to return to some of normalcy in your life again, you can't keep avoiding going out on your days off work and avoid invitations and things. Otherwise you'll just end up like a hermit.'' And I don't want to be, I don't want to live a life where I am on edge because someone behind me is coughing and worrying they have a virus. I was never like that before the pandemic but I'm worried I'll be in this state of mind for the rest of time. My dad wants me to see him for his birthday at restaurant and a part of me feels reluctant to go and another says I should just go because I can't keep avoiding things like this.



Fnord
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23 Nov 2021, 9:35 am

Fear about the coronavirus is useless; so are people who refuse the vaccines for reasons other than medical ones.



PhosphorusDecree
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23 Nov 2021, 9:47 am

When I said something similar to a paramedic, he set me straight in no uncertain terms. Since vaccination started here, he's taken far fewer covid patients in a critical condition to Intensive Care. And his colleagues have stopped dying of it.


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23 Nov 2021, 9:58 am

No. Due to taking precautions and having vaccinations no one I know has become so seriously ill that they've been hospitalised or died. I know one person with long covid, but apart from that my workmates, friends and family are all safe and sound.

We still need to take care, but it's not futile.



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23 Nov 2021, 10:07 am

No. Without the restrictions there would've been more deaths, more serious cases and probably more lasting effects for those who did get infected. Same with if there weren't vaccinations.

Some might ask if the restrictions are worth the toll they take on economy, and people tend to have some differing opinions on this one. I'd say that yes, they're worth it, 'cause you can always rebuild the economy, from zero if you have to, but you can't always restore lost health and you most certainly can't wake the dead.

Fnord wrote:
Fear about the coronavirus is useless.


But if one fears just enough to practice healthy caution due to that fear, then the fear works in society's favor.



Fnord
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23 Nov 2021, 10:11 am

No.  Every person I know who has been vaccinated against covid is still alive, even those who caught the virus after being vaccinated; and everyone I knew who did not get vaccinated and caught the virus has died.

One more died last night.  I will not attend her funeral.



kraftiekortie
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23 Nov 2021, 11:08 am

I'm fortunate. I survived COVID unscathed well before there were vaccinations. March, 2020. I am fortunate to have had a mild case---a 3-week flu, basically.

People who were not vaccinated tended to have more serious cases, in my experience, than those who were vaccinated.

Vaccination, unfortunately, doesn't prevent COVID-----but it certainly mitigates the EFFECTS of COVID. It leads to less hospitalizations and deaths.



ASPartOfMe
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23 Nov 2021, 11:22 am

The treatments and testing are more effective. The pills that are about to become available have tested to be very effective. In another words people who would get have gotten severe COVID will probably not suffer severe COVID. If these pills work as expected and with boosters COVID will truly become just another illness with no need for mitigation measures.

There will be those who will also be anti pill saying they could not trick us into taking the vaccines so they are trying to trick us with this. At that point there will be no reason to let the refusnicks impair our lives, let em become disabled or die, unlike now they will present minuscule risk to most everybody.

This progress has been accomplished in an incredibly quick amount of time.

The OP points to something that will be a real problem. Call it traumatization, call it PTSD people and governments will be unrealistically fearful, do unneeded mitigation out of an abundance of caution for a time. The next flu outbreak will probably result in government and personal mitigation measures that would have not happened pre COVID. That said most will not be permanently paralyzed with fear.

When 9/11 happened they said we will never view comedy the same again, irony is history etc. I live in the New York area every plane that flew overhead sent a chill, even a digital clock saying 9:11 sent a chill up my spine. Walking by Manhattan skyscrapers my thought was better take a good look at that building it may the last time I ever see it. Those feelings gradually and unevenly went away. Life is not exactly the way it was pre 9/11 and it won’t be the same post pandemic/endemic COVID. That always is true even without traumatic events.


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Last edited by ASPartOfMe on 23 Nov 2021, 2:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Fnord
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23 Nov 2021, 11:27 am

ASPartOfMe wrote:
... There will be those who will also be anti pill saying they could not trick us into taking the vaccines so they are trying to trick us with this.  At that point there will be no reason to let the refuseniks impair our lives, let 'em become disabled or die, unlike now they will present minuscule risk to most everybody...
That is my take, as well.

They are like smokers who, living their final years tethered to oxygen tanks by COPD, eventually admitting they should have never started smoking.

Then they die.



chris1989
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24 Nov 2021, 9:35 am

I seem to think that there are people who feel its better to be infected than to be vaccinated because you could have much long term immunity than the vaccine. I used to always think vaccines were the best weapons to fight a pandemic and that its better and safer to be vaccinated than being infected and falling really ill. I have often thought that now we have vaccines and that it was supposed to weaken the severity of the virus and that people are still getting infected. Are they only catching a less severe virus from someone or are they still catching the virus that was already severe before it infected people ?



Fnord
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24 Nov 2021, 9:44 am

chris1989 wrote:
I seem to think that there are people who feel its better to be infected than to be vaccinated because you could have much long term immunity than the vaccine. I used to always think vaccines were the best weapons to fight a pandemic and that its better and safer to be vaccinated than being infected and falling really ill. I have often thought that now we have vaccines and that it was supposed to weaken the severity of the virus and that people are still getting infected. Are they only catching a less severe virus from someone or are they still catching the virus that was already severe before it infected people ?
These are your choices:

• Get vaccinated, stay healthy, and live.
• Get vaccinated, get covid, and live.
• Avoid vaccination, stay healthy, and live.
• Avoid vaccination, get covid, and die.

That is all there is to it.



PhosphorusDecree
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24 Nov 2021, 9:58 am

chris1989 wrote:
I seem to think that there are people who feel its better to be infected than to be vaccinated because you could have much long term immunity than the vaccine. I used to always think vaccines were the best weapons to fight a pandemic and that its better and safer to be vaccinated than being infected and falling really ill. I have often thought that now we have vaccines and that it was supposed to weaken the severity of the virus and that people are still getting infected. Are they only catching a less severe virus from someone or are they still catching the virus that was already severe before it infected people ?


I think it's that the vaccines lower the risk of getting the virus AND they reduce how severe the symptoms are. They're not perfect at either, but they still massively reduce the risk of actually dying from it. A lot of the problem right now is that the virus keeps evolving into more infectious forms in order to survive. But it doesn't seem to be becoming more lethal. The other problem is that so many people have abandoned any attempt at being cautious, giving the virus easy access to those who are most vulnerable to it.


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Fireblossom
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24 Nov 2021, 11:41 am

Fnord wrote:
No.  Every person I know who has been vaccinated against covid is still alive, even those who caught the virus after being vaccinated; and everyone I knew who did not get vaccinated and caught the virus has died.


It's good if those vaccinated are still alive even after catching covid, but I'm curious: were any of them risk group due to age or illness? 'Cause I'd guess that vaccinated members of risk groups have higher chances of dying than those who are vaccinated and not in any risk group.



chris1989
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24 Nov 2021, 11:59 am

PhosphorusDecree wrote:
chris1989 wrote:
I seem to think that there are people who feel its better to be infected than to be vaccinated because you could have much long term immunity than the vaccine. I used to always think vaccines were the best weapons to fight a pandemic and that its better and safer to be vaccinated than being infected and falling really ill. I have often thought that now we have vaccines and that it was supposed to weaken the severity of the virus and that people are still getting infected. Are they only catching a less severe virus from someone or are they still catching the virus that was already severe before it infected people ?


I think it's that the vaccines lower the risk of getting the virus AND they reduce how severe the symptoms are. They're not perfect at either, but they still massively reduce the risk of actually dying from it. A lot of the problem right now is that the virus keeps evolving into more infectious forms in order to survive. But it doesn't seem to be becoming more lethal. The other problem is that so many people have abandoned any attempt at being cautious, giving the virus easy access to those who are most vulnerable to it.


I remember a report in the UK saying about a slight mutation in the Delta variant which was more transmissible but unlikely to cause symptoms. I thought that that was quite unusual.



ASPartOfMe
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24 Nov 2021, 12:06 pm

Fnord wrote:
No.  Every person I know who has been vaccinated against covid is still alive, even those who caught the virus after being vaccinated; and everyone I knew who did not get vaccinated and caught the virus has died.

One more died last night.  I will not attend her funeral.

You have been extremely unlucky in the unvaccinated people you knew. The vast majority of people who get COVID do not die. At my alma matar during September 2020 with no vaccines available they were reckless, they went from 0 to over 700 cases in two weeks. They sent everybody home. No one died, no one was hospitalized. Why? They are young with no preexisting conditions. That said you are 11 times more likely to die if you are not vaccinated.


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Last edited by ASPartOfMe on 24 Nov 2021, 12:20 pm, edited 1 time in total.

ASPartOfMe
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24 Nov 2021, 12:18 pm

chris1989 wrote:
I seem to think that there are people who feel its better to be infected than to be vaccinated because you could have much long term immunity than the vaccine. I used to always think vaccines were the best weapons to fight a pandemic and that its better and safer to be vaccinated than being infected and falling really ill. I have often thought that now we have vaccines and that it was supposed to weaken the severity of the virus and that people are still getting infected. Are they only catching a less severe virus from someone or are they still catching the virus that was already severe before it infected people ?


After COVID-19 infection you still need your shots, Pitt study finds. Young adults may be more vulnerable
Quote:
Natural immunity has become a popular excuse for not getting vaccinated against COVID-19, but a new study from the University of Pittsburgh found that antibody levels left over from a prior infection vary significantly — and in many cases aren’t enough to protect people from getting sick again.

The study, which was posted to the preprint website medRxiv and has not yet been peer-reviewed, analyzed antibody levels among adults who had recovered from moderate COVID-19 infections and found that people under age 30 had lower antibody levels than older people. The findings suggest that everyone, especially young adults, should get the COVID-19 vaccine even if they’ve recovered from the virus.

The study analyzed immune response among 173 adults between ages 19 and 79 who had mild or moderate COVID-19 and did not require hospitalization, by measuring antibodies to the virus in blood samples. Researchers found that some people had high antibody levels, while others had low levels.

High antibody level samples were able to neutralize COVID-19, while low levels were not.

There is still a lot researchers don’t know about COVID-19 and natural immunity, such as why some people have higher levels of antibodies, what level is sufficient to protect against reinfection, and how long natural immunity can last.

A large study by Israeli researchers found that people who had recovered from COVID-19 had better protection against reinfection than fully vaccinated people who had never had the virus. But the study also found that natural immunity plus the vaccine offered even greater protection, and the authors cautioned against using the findings as an argument against vaccination.

The CDC recommends that even people who have had COVID-19 be vaccinated because the shots have been shown to offer better protection than natural immunity alone and because it’s unclear how long natural immunity lasts.

Bolding=mine


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