Mass Shooting in Michigan High School

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demeus
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07 Dec 2021, 9:57 pm

DW_a_mom wrote:
^^^ Looking at the gap between what we think the school should have done, and what it did do; combined with the fact officials have been clear they don't think the school did anything wrong; all I can think is that there must have been policies tying the school's hands. Purely speculation in this case but, overall, I do know that a school's hands are tied in a million different ways when it comes to actions they can take with students. Schools here tend to be very bureaucratic, with a lot of government interference that prevents them from making judgement calls, and requires them to follow strict policies. If the school followed policy, that is usually a legal shield.


I am sure a civil case will be filed against the school district and the gun shop that sold Ethan's dad the gun as well as the parents. Insurance will then step in and do a settlement figuring out the liability of each entity.



DW_a_mom
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07 Dec 2021, 10:35 pm

demeus wrote:
DW_a_mom wrote:
^^^ Looking at the gap between what we think the school should have done, and what it did do; combined with the fact officials have been clear they don't think the school did anything wrong; all I can think is that there must have been policies tying the school's hands. Purely speculation in this case but, overall, I do know that a school's hands are tied in a million different ways when it comes to actions they can take with students. Schools here tend to be very bureaucratic, with a lot of government interference that prevents them from making judgement calls, and requires them to follow strict policies. If the school followed policy, that is usually a legal shield.


I am sure a civil case will be filed against the school district and the gun shop that sold Ethan's dad the gun as well as the parents. Insurance will then step in and do a settlement figuring out the liability of each entity.


Most likely.


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TheRobotLives
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08 Dec 2021, 4:26 am

Brictoria wrote:

It does seem weird to me that the counselors did not even ask about a gun, in either meetings.

These seems like natural questions to ask ...

"Why are you searching on ammo?"

"Why are you drawing a picture of a gun"?

Which would lead to asking questions about why he's so interested in guns.


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08 Dec 2021, 11:13 am

TheRobotLives wrote:
Brictoria wrote:

It does seem weird to me that the counselors did not even ask about a gun, in either meetings.

These seems like natural questions to ask ...

"Why are you searching on ammo?"

"Why are you drawing a picture of a gun"?

Which would lead to asking questions about why he's so interested in guns.


The average kid doesn't take a gun to school, and they expected the parents to take him home.


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skrish234
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08 Dec 2021, 1:14 pm

TheRobotLives wrote:
Brictoria wrote:

It does seem weird to me that the counselors did not even ask about a gun, in either meetings.

These seems like natural questions to ask ...

"Why are you searching on ammo?"

"Why are you drawing a picture of a gun"?

Which would lead to asking questions about why he's so interested in guns.


Which would have prevented the shooting in the first place



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08 Dec 2021, 1:15 pm

Yep, there is a lot of blame all around; but the ultimate blame goes to the terrorist who murdered those four people.



cyberdad
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08 Dec 2021, 4:15 pm

Is the school really culpable here if the parents refuse to take the boy home? what are they supposed to do? call an Uber? there is nobody home and the kid is underaged.



Fnord
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08 Dec 2021, 4:42 pm

Putting blame on the school may not work in a criminal case; but I have seen similar claims succeed in civil court.

Although most such civil cases that I have known were settled outside of court.



TheRobotLives
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08 Dec 2021, 5:08 pm

cyberdad wrote:
Is the school really culpable here if the parents refuse to take the boy home? what are they supposed to do? call an Uber? there is nobody home and the kid is underaged.

It's the school's decision, not the parents.

"Education and law-enforcement experts interviewed by Bridge Michigan say Oxford High officials had the legal right to remove Crumbley from the school based on the graphic violence in the note found by one teacher and his online search for ammunition noticed by another. But the district’s discipline policy also emphasizes that administrators are to consider expulsion or suspension as a last resort".
https://www.bridgemi.com/michigan-gover ... l-shooting


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cyberdad
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08 Dec 2021, 10:49 pm

TheRobotLives wrote:
cyberdad wrote:
Is the school really culpable here if the parents refuse to take the boy home? what are they supposed to do? call an Uber? there is nobody home and the kid is underaged.

It's the school's decision, not the parents.

"Education and law-enforcement experts interviewed by Bridge Michigan say Oxford High officials had the legal right to remove Crumbley from the school based on the graphic violence in the note found by one teacher and his online search for ammunition noticed by another. But the district’s discipline policy also emphasizes that administrators are to consider expulsion or suspension as a last resort".
https://www.bridgemi.com/michigan-gover ... l-shooting


Forcibly removing the student sounds harsh if he hasn't done anything though?



cyberdad
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08 Dec 2021, 10:53 pm

Following the school shooting in Michigan where children have died now there are two republicans who seem to be tone deaf to the shooting

In addition to republican Thomas Massie posting his family holding guns saying "santa please bring ammo"

Image

Now republican Lauren Boebert has followed suit. Responding to Massie saying "no spare ammo for you" (notice again the children shown holding guns)

Image

Meanwhile a vigil has been held in Oxford Michigan for the dead child victims of the shooting
Image



TheRobotLives
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09 Dec 2021, 5:18 pm

The family of an Oxford High School student has filed a $100 million lawsuit against the school and staff

The defendants are listed as:

Oxford Community School District
Superintendent Timothy Thorne
Principal Steven Wolf
Dean of Students Ryan Moore
Two unnamed counselors
One unnamed staff member
and two unnamed teachers


https://www.wilx.com/2021/12/09/100m-la ... ng-victim/


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09 Dec 2021, 5:29 pm

I'm curious to know if the staff who participated in that meeting were aware of the ammunition search, which was one day prior. We have no indication that it was the same teacher. I really doubt the teacher who caught a student searching ammo online reported it to administration. Kids use their phones all the time. I assume they only mentioned it after the tragedy, that they weren't part of the meeting, and they only thought of it in retrospect.

I know if my child were a victim, or it happened at their school, I'd want heads to roll too.



cyberdad
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10 Dec 2021, 8:51 pm

If you take a step back and remove people's easy access to guns in the first place then these things would never happen.



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10 Dec 2021, 9:38 pm

cyberdad wrote:
If you take a step back and remove people's easy access to guns in the first place then these things would never happen.


That's common sense, but who ever said the right is in possession of sense, common or otherwise.


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10 Dec 2021, 10:16 pm

Kraichgauer wrote:
cyberdad wrote:
If you take a step back and remove people's easy access to guns in the first place then these things would never happen.


That's common sense, but who ever said the right is in possession of sense, common or otherwise.


They have sense, but it's self-centred "sense" of entitlement.

"Me got gun" "me shoot".....cavemen would be impressed by that level of logic