Page 1 of 6 [ 85 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6  Next

blitzkrieg
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 8 Jun 2011
Age: 35
Gender: Male
Posts: 14,451
Location: United Kingdom

30 Dec 2021, 5:58 pm

https://www.reddit.com/r/BlockedAndReported/comments/jw8fgt/poll_when_will_woke_culture_die/

Wokeism will die in the year 2024 with the election of Donald Trump.

Please check back here when Trump gets elected, at that time.

Thanks.



Fnord
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 6 May 2008
Age: 66
Gender: Male
Posts: 59,750
Location: Stendec

30 Dec 2021, 5:59 pm

blitzkrieg wrote:
... Wokeism will die in the year 2024 ...
Evidence, please?
blitzkrieg wrote:
... with the election of Donald Trump.
Evidence, please?

:lol: You are SO funny!!



blitzkrieg
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 8 Jun 2011
Age: 35
Gender: Male
Posts: 14,451
Location: United Kingdom

30 Dec 2021, 6:00 pm

There is no evidence until it happens.

Please check back in 2024. :lol: 8)



Aspiegaming
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 11 Sep 2012
Age: 32
Gender: Male
Posts: 3,043
Location: Hagerstown, MD

30 Dec 2021, 7:52 pm

I can't stand another four years of right wing Authoritarian Nationalism with a side of Libertarian Economics.

Is wokeism worse? Who cares? It's all equally bad!


_________________
I am sick, and in so being I am the healthy one.

If my darkness or eccentricness offends you, I don't really care.

I will not apologize for being me.


blitzkrieg
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 8 Jun 2011
Age: 35
Gender: Male
Posts: 14,451
Location: United Kingdom

30 Dec 2021, 8:08 pm

Aspiegaming wrote:
I can't stand another four years of right wing Authoritarian Nationalism with a side of Libertarian Economics.

Is wokeism worse? Who cares? It's all equally bad!


Oh, I agree,

The United States is in hell either way.

Trumpism & Wokeism are equally as extreme and utterly stupid.



IsabellaLinton
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 1 Nov 2017
Gender: Female
Posts: 67,988
Location: Chez Quis

30 Dec 2021, 8:23 pm

By definition, wokeism and "progressive" ideology has to change in some way over time.

Otherwise we'll be able to call it "conservative", for staying the same and maintaining its old values.



Mountain Goat
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 13 May 2019
Gender: Male
Posts: 14,202
Location: .

30 Dec 2021, 8:35 pm

Can someone explain the difference between wokeism and cancel culture as what some describe as wokeism others call it cancel culture.
I origionally thought wokeism was to do with the BLM movement, but I have seen the term used to describe cancel culture which is just another term for a slightly altered form of marxism. While I can see the links because the BLM movement seem to want to promote cancel culture thinking as it does suit their cause, I think most black people would be horrified if they thought they were combining the two and I don't blame them. The problem is, I am a bit confused as to what the real term wokeism actually is as many use it for more then one meaning.

What does the word actually mean and how does it differ from the British woke generation of which there are not many left due to their age. (They will mostly be in their 80's or older or at the very least their mid 70's, as they came in via invite from the UK government during the 1950's as we had lost so many people due to the war and were desparate for help from abroad to get our industry back running again).


_________________
.


theprisoner
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 9 Jan 2021
Age: 35
Gender: Male
Posts: 4,431
Location: Britain

30 Dec 2021, 8:40 pm

You missed the Point. In your eagerness. You are SO funny!! Fnord!


_________________
AQ: 27 Diagnosis:High functioning (just on the cusp of normal.) IQ:131 (somewhat inflated result but ego-flattering) DNA:XY Location: UK. Eyes: Blue. Hair: Brown. Height:6'1 Celebrity I most resemble: Tom hardy. Favorite Band: The Doors. Personality: uhhm ....(what can i say...we asd people are strange)


Aspiegaming
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 11 Sep 2012
Age: 32
Gender: Male
Posts: 3,043
Location: Hagerstown, MD

30 Dec 2021, 9:29 pm

Mountain Goat wrote:
Can someone explain the difference between wokeism and cancel culture as what some describe as wokeism others call it cancel culture.
I origionally thought wokeism was to do with the BLM movement, but I have seen the term used to describe cancel culture which is just another term for a slightly altered form of marxism. While I can see the links because the BLM movement seem to want to promote cancel culture thinking as it does suit their cause, I think most black people would be horrified if they thought they were combining the two and I don't blame them. The problem is, I am a bit confused as to what the real term wokeism actually is as many use it for more then one meaning.

What does the word actually mean and how does it differ from the British woke generation of which there are not many left due to their age. (They will mostly be in their 80's or older or at the very least their mid 70's, as they came in via invite from the UK government during the 1950's as we had lost so many people due to the war and were desparate for help from abroad to get our industry back running again).


Wokeism is when media forces an agenda of pushing needless diversity in your face regardless of whether or not it will be good, and if you don't like it, the critics and producers call you things like an -ist or a -phobe. Such woke agendas include taking existing franchises and involving them with needless race swapping, gender swapping, making characters gay or trans, adding a feminist agenda where the females are overpowered and the men are idiots because Wahman don't need no man. Blech!

Cancel Culture is when SJWs are offended by a statement or action of a person and getting them kicked off social media isn't enough. They want to end this person's career permanently.


_________________
I am sick, and in so being I am the healthy one.

If my darkness or eccentricness offends you, I don't really care.

I will not apologize for being me.


Mountain Goat
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 13 May 2019
Gender: Male
Posts: 14,202
Location: .

30 Dec 2021, 10:10 pm

I have found out what cancel culture is. It was wokeism that I was not sure about. You have answered in detail. Thank you.

Jordan Petterson talks a lot about where cancel culture came from and about its marxist routes and why they try to eliminate anything to do with a countries past etc.

It is interesting to learn these things and which is which as minority groups are pray to being used as political pawns to get a political outcome which has nothing to do with their cause. In other words, when the cancel culture supporters use the minority groups to attack and destabilize our democratic values, they can then take over and they care not for the minority groups they use which is pretty nasty, and one in which minority groups are most vunerable for because they get caught into thinking their rigts are threatened if they don't protest to keep their rights when all along by protesting they are being used to undermine democracy which no minority group wants to do because democracy has brought them the freedom to protest and when the cancel culture get to take over they will have no rights to protest. It has been very subtly and very cleverly done as by gradually infultrating our education system, cancel culture methods are promoted and the new generations adhere to marxist communism and do not even know they are becoming the driving force to bring it into power. And how do the new generations know the difference when they have been taught with a cancel cultural agenda as one only knows the difference if one has had it revealed and has been shown what it is and how it works and the differences between that and democratic freedoms such as the freedom of speech.


_________________
.


shlaifu
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 26 May 2014
Age: 40
Gender: Male
Posts: 2,659

30 Dec 2021, 10:38 pm

Mountain Goat wrote:
I have found out what cancel culture is. It was wokeism that I was not sure about. You have answered in detail. Thank you.

Jordan Petterson talks a lot about where cancel culture came from and about its marxist routes and why they try to eliminate anything to do with a countries past etc.

It is interesting to learn these things and which is which as minority groups are pray to being used as political pawns to get a political outcome which has nothing to do with their cause. In other words, when the cancel culture supporters use the minority groups to attack and destabilize our democratic values, they can then take over and they care not for the minority groups they use which is pretty nasty, and one in which minority groups are most vunerable for because they get caught into thinking their rigts are threatened if they don't protest to keep their rights when all along by protesting they are being used to undermine democracy which no minority group wants to do because democracy has brought them the freedom to protest and when the cancel culture get to take over they will have no rights to protest. It has been very subtly and very cleverly done as by gradually infultrating our education system, cancel culture methods are promoted and the new generations adhere to marxist communism and do not even know they are becoming the driving force to bring it into power. And how do the new generations know the difference when they have been taught with a cancel cultural agenda as one only knows the difference if one has had it revealed and has been shown what it is and how it works and the differences between that and democratic freedoms such as the freedom of speech.


Jordan Peterson is a psychologist who believes in the esoteric teachings of C.G. Jung.
His sociological education is patchy and his interpretation of important philosophers is extremely idiosyncratic and biased towards his conservative and Christian views.
Reading Marx's theory on economics as a psychogram, and then somehow reinterpreting Nietzsche's critique of Christian resentment as Marxist is... um... creative, and avoiding Marx's critique of capitalism. He is also very confused on art history/theory.
Basically, he all reduces it to a struggle for power, from an individual's perspective, and disregards systemic approaches as well as historic and cultural contingencies. Which makes sense - he's a Jungian, and Jung saw meaning in everything, to the point that he tried to develop a theory of effects with totally unrelated causes (synchronicity).
Psychology as well, as a field is highly problematic ever since people tried to repeat some experiments which are widely believed to prove the basic theories of the field, only to find that these experiments couldn't be repeated, which has thrown the whole field into crisis. It probably shouldn't be used as a framework to understand or rather, in Peterson's case, replace economics.

That said, wokeism is the opposite side of the same coin.

North America has dropped class struggle from the Agenda, and is now trying to explain the issues with everything that remotely fits, but nothing really does, and it's going mad over it.


_________________
I can read facial expressions. I did the test.


Mona Pereth
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 11 Sep 2018
Gender: Female
Posts: 7,810
Location: New York City (Queens)

30 Dec 2021, 11:14 pm

Mountain Goat wrote:
Can someone explain the difference between wokeism and cancel culture as what some describe as wokeism others call it cancel culture.

"Wokeism" and "cancel culture" are both terms used by right wingers to caricature both the political left itself and corporate co-optations thereof.

"Cancel culture" is a term used by right wingers to refer to either (1) boycotts by left-wingers or (2) corporate (e.g. on social media) censorship of blatant racism and other blatant bigotry.

"Wokeism" is a term coined by right wingers to refer to any combination of:

(1) The BLM movement (whose members have spoken of themselves as "woke").

(2) Anyone trying to educate the public about the concerns of one or more marginalized groups. (In the eyes of right wingers, apparently, their own right to remain ignorant of such matters is ever-so-much-more important than any concerns of any marginalized groups.)

(3) Corporate co-optation of some leftwing sensibilities. (For example, the "Diversity, Equity, and Inclusion" programs instituted by many corporations to cover their asses and avoid being sued for discrimination.)


_________________
- Autistic in NYC - Resources and new ideas for the autistic adult community in the New York City metro area.
- Autistic peer-led groups (via text-based chat, currently) led or facilitated by members of the Autistic Peer Leadership Group.
- My Twitter / "X" (new as of 2021)


Mona Pereth
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 11 Sep 2018
Gender: Female
Posts: 7,810
Location: New York City (Queens)

30 Dec 2021, 11:26 pm

Aspiegaming wrote:
Wokeism is when media forces an agenda of pushing needless diversity in your face regardless of whether or not it will be good, and if you don't like it, the critics and producers call you things like an -ist or a -phobe. Such woke agendas include taking existing franchises and involving them with needless race swapping, gender swapping, making characters gay or trans, adding a feminist agenda where the females are overpowered and the men are idiots because Wahman don't need no man. Blech!

"Existing franchises" are just doing what they think they need to do to appeal to the younger generation and remain culturally relevant.

Aspiegaming wrote:
Cancel Culture is when SJWs are offended by a statement or action of a person and getting them kicked off social media isn't enough. They want to end this person's career permanently.

I agree that trying to end someone's career permanently may be going too far, especially if it's over just one offensive statement. But it could be justified if the person is either an outright neo-Nazi or a major public figure with a longstanding pattern of oppressive attitudes and/or harassment of marginalized people.


_________________
- Autistic in NYC - Resources and new ideas for the autistic adult community in the New York City metro area.
- Autistic peer-led groups (via text-based chat, currently) led or facilitated by members of the Autistic Peer Leadership Group.
- My Twitter / "X" (new as of 2021)


Last edited by Mona Pereth on 30 Dec 2021, 11:40 pm, edited 3 times in total.

Mona Pereth
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 11 Sep 2018
Gender: Female
Posts: 7,810
Location: New York City (Queens)

30 Dec 2021, 11:36 pm

shlaifu wrote:
North America has dropped class struggle from the Agenda

In other words, the U.S. labor movement has been greatly weakened over the past 50 years or so. Hence the Democratic Party has become far less reliant on the labor movement for its support, and, as a result, has needed more donations from rich people. That's a big problem.

But it shouldn't be taken as invalidating the concerns of marginalized minorities.


_________________
- Autistic in NYC - Resources and new ideas for the autistic adult community in the New York City metro area.
- Autistic peer-led groups (via text-based chat, currently) led or facilitated by members of the Autistic Peer Leadership Group.
- My Twitter / "X" (new as of 2021)


Mountain Goat
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 13 May 2019
Gender: Male
Posts: 14,202
Location: .

31 Dec 2021, 8:22 am

What I don't get it how those in the BLM movement can call themselves "Woke" because only a very small percentage are. It is like they do not know what woke means? Descendants of the woke generation are not woke because if they were their rights to live here would have been under question. They were born here so they have no issues. The woke generation were invited in and it was only supposed to be temporary. They did so well that we aanted them to remain here. Don't forget thet the UK paid for them to come in and to bless them.
The issue is many people are very ungreatful and always want more. What would their lives be like if they had never come here? Some may be more prosporus but most would not have been. Consider this. The ones who say they don't have work. Atleast they are given state money to live. If they had not been here and not found work they would have had nothing and starved.
Lets be greatful here. They helped us in our time of need and we are helping them by allowing them to live here and to be a blessing.

Now in the USA, the woke generation is not the same. I dont get how anyone can call themselves woke over there because the term I understand that woke means was when several ships of African people were brought into the UK during the 1950's because we had lost so many people and needed their help to get our industry going again. (As they were a Commonwealth country so we still had strong links. Incidently, just as many Indians from India came in along along with Gerkas and others who were part of the Commonwealth so the term woke is not exclusively for African people. The black communities have tried to make it refer only to them).
Something else about the UK is that if one looks at immigration numbers of those who came in from the continent of Africa, an exceptionally small amount came in origionally as slaves as the majority went to the American shores (We are talking about hundreds rather then thousands here in the UK, though this does exclude their offspring which accounts for a much larger number). We are talking several thousand that came in during woke if we are exclusively taking just the ones from Africa, and they have obviously had a few generations since.
The vast majority of Africans that have come here and I have been told it is 90% came in during the 1990's when the then Labour government opened up our boarders to them and fair enough. We have had to close the boarders again since because there is only so many people the UK can accomodate before it is too many, and part of the problem here is the majority all went to head to the areas around London or the big cities of Birmingham or Manchester etc which caused issues because instead of spreading out (Which is now starting to happen) there was an influx of a huge amount of people all trying to live in the same place which caused the problems, and some of the issues were issues that are hard to overcome like schools etc.
It is true that some were held back in school and they did have a hard time but it is nothing to do with government discrimination. Consider this. Many that came here had to first learn our language and that is a hard thing to do. My hats off to them to have done this. But picture this on the schools behalf. The local schools have to teach people who live in the area. They are not exclusively black or white. The whites standards used to be high when they were taught before the schools had this influx of people. No ones fault at all. But because many had come in and could not even speak english the whole system had to adapt and quickly adapt too.
The second issue here is that we are now dealing, or trying to deal with a lot of different standards and levels where in the past before the influx of people came we were teaching those who had come up year by year through the teaching system, so for example a 12 year old would have been in school since they were four or even three years old, so would have been taught for eight or nine years. Some 12 year olds coming in had had no education or would have had very little and what they had may have been taught in another language so it was hard for both the schools and the children to adapt...
And the standards are going to be lower for everyone because what do you do? Do you only teach the whites the higher standard of education which will be unfair to the blacks and others? And the more intelectual blacks were held back just as the whites were. So there is no solution other then to try ones best and bring all that can be brought up to a more basic level of education...
But what has happened is that in the rest of the country such as the rural areas which are more exclusively white and the few blacks there were descendants of those who already live here did not have to cater for the many issues the schools in the east of the country and the big cities were trying to cater for, so they were naturally getting and being taught to higher standards, so yes. It did happen. It does happen. Is it discrimination? No! No one was trying to discriminate. If there was discrimination against the blacks they would not have had the option to go to school.

Where things are going wrong, or rather have gone wrong is that the press are largely not allowed to come out with the facts because it is classed as being discriminatory to say that many who came into the UK did not have an education. Obviously many did and many had a very good education, and there also was a major langauge barrier for some to get over... But these details are not allowed to be discussed on our politically correct news, and when someone mentions it the subject is quickly changed.
And yet, the news does say that the schools where there are large amounts of Africans and others who were also allowed in (E.g. Europeans, Asians etc) had poorer overall exam results but they blame it on government discrimination. They ALWAYS claim they are directly discriminated against.
Ok. Lets round up the newscasters and give them the responsibility to give these people an education. Good luck with that! Well. What are we going to do? We have all sorts of tallent potential but we only have so much time before they turn into adults and need to find a career, and many came into Britain who would only be in the education system for a few years if that due to their age. What about them?
And trying to teach english to many first is not easy especially since they came from a diverse number of language backgrounds, and it is hard for them to adapt as well. They are in the deep end as well... And there is only so much that any child can learn before they become overloaded and it all becomes too much.
But the press push it as discrimination. And what about the native children of those areas who had their education standards lowered. These whites can claim they were being discriminated against because they lost out too. Only the parents of wealthy whites who could pay for their children to be privetly educated did not lose out, and are they discriminating against the majority of those who could not afford to do that? No! Certainly not. They only want the best for their children. They have made great sacrifices for some to do that as not everyone in those private schools have rich parents.

So no. The complexities into what is or is not discrimination that the press claim is discrimination has little or nothing to do with discrimination in most accounts.

But we go back to what woke means and how the press have pushed the meaning to mean exclusively black people. Are they going to apologize to the thousands of others who genuinely came induring woke who were not black and have been excluded from both the woke and the non woke groups... Who are "Inbetweens" because the press have made it like that while they claim that the blacks are discriminated against? These things are complicated, especially now that black people who have nothing to do with woke think of rhemselves as woke because they do not understand what it is (Which is how the term came to be in America? Did the USA import thousands of Africans in the 1950's as well?)


So how do we address this as the BLM movement have been swayed by the press (Here in the UK they have) who sensationalize things and cause the people here to protest against things that are far too complicated to have a simple solution? Well what are we going to do? So far we have pushed the black agenda so far that white people are not allowed to get a job if a black person has applied as rhe black person has to have the priority, and black people have priority in gaining council houses. That is not a fair system because now we are opening up future claims of discrimination against whites who turn teir anger against the blacks. So how do we resolve this? How DO we ensure that everyone is treated fairly and that everyone has an equal chance of a council house or to find work? Where IS the solution to keep everyone happy regardless of their skin colour or racial background?

In the past we just called everyone "People" but clearly that was not working. So what IS the aswer? To discriminate against anyone who is white to the point where in the rural areas rhe whites are committing suicide as they cant find work because we are encouraging the blacks to live further out so they don't overcrowd the cities, so that due to the laws the blacks have to have the priority when they apply for jobs?

So how are we going to resolve this so everyone is equal and no one is left out?

This is complicated! The press sensationalize but also do not report on the complexities of the situation. They say "Discrimination". We need to stop.
We need workable common sense answers that work for the complexities that we are facing. No wonder some whites are starting to hate blacks. They see the blacks as the blame for their predicament because our government has not been able to make a fair system, and the government have been reacting to the press and the BLM groups rater than trying to find a fair solution in this complicated world that we live in.

How do we ensure fairness? How do we prevent a black/white divide which is opening up since these new laws were brought in? Just how do we heal and make up unless we have a level playing field where we can come together as one?
These things are complicated.


_________________
.


HighLlama
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 12 Apr 2015
Age: 40
Gender: Male
Posts: 8,017

31 Dec 2021, 8:24 am

Wouldn't wokeism increase with Trump's reelection? Though similar in their lack of nuance, they are opposed in ideal.