McConnell: Black people vote at similar rates to ‘Americans’

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txfz1
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25 Jan 2022, 4:31 pm

DW_a_mom wrote:
txfz1 wrote:

Voter ID, are ya’ll seriously believing people cannot get IDs in this day? That is an insult to every adult as there are very few cases where it is applicable.


Actually, yes, it can be hard for some people.

It costs money.
It has to be done at certain locations within certain hours that people without transportation or with certain job hours may not be able to meet.
You have to provide copies of documents you may not have handy and may need to pay for (and what if you don’t have things like utility bills for backup?).
It often requires a numbered street address which some jurisdictions (like some Indian reservations) don’t provide.

That is just off the top of my head.

Even then, it is rarely about having ID, but about having the “right” ID. Not expired, a driver’s license but not student ID, etc. Go back to my coworker whose US passport was not good enough to register with in the state of Pennsylvania, according to the registration worker.

Remember all these measures are designed to sound reasonable, while being specifically targeted to make things more difficult for specific groups.

It is designed to discourage, just like my coworker being sent home to return with a different document.

In all prosecuted cases of voting fraud (which is aggressively pursued but is rarely found) only maybe one or two involved someone trying to vote under someone else’s name. It is a “solution” in want of a problem, so one should ask why it is offered.

And this is only one example. Most of the measures are similarly insidious.


The requirement for real ID was difficult but iirc, this should have solved the problem of missing documents. This is across the board for everyone not just minorities. The Real ID is a federal requirement. In Texas, here is the list of supplement docs that can be used to vote.

Here is a list of the supporting forms of ID that can be presented if the voter does not possess one of the forms of acceptable photo ID and cannot reasonably obtain one:

copy or original of a government document that shows the voter’s name and an address, including the voter’s voter registration certificate;
copy of or original current utility bill;
copy of or original bank statement;
copy of or original government check;
copy of or original paycheck; or
copy of or original of (a) a certified domestic (from a U.S. state or territory) birth certificate or (b) a document confirming birth admissible in a court of law which establishes the voter’s identity (which may include a foreign birth document).

So, I don’t see this as an issue that suppresses the minorities from voting.



Kraichgauer
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25 Jan 2022, 6:34 pm

txfz1 wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
txfz1 wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:

What's wrong with concerned citizens, or family or friends bringing voters water? Perhaps it's intended to encourage voters to go home without voting when standing in line too long?
Sure most people have ID's, but it's suspicious that licensing offices in certain neighborhoods get closed down.


They can, just need to fill out the caregivers form. Why is the water provided by the poll watchers and election judges bad, there is usually a water fountain nearby in all public buildings? Most people carry water with them everywhere, I usually do. I'm not judging you but this is a silly reason to implement the federal overtaking of states rights.

Lots of reasons to close licensing offices, covid was one, utilization/optimizations, etc. Where is the logic that it is restricting voting when most people have IDs? FWIW, my time for in-person renewal was due but I was out of state and I was able to do it by mail. I just don't see where your complaint has merit.


Why should anyone have to fill out a caregiver's form for just giving water to someone in need? The whole idea behind this is to make voting uncomfortable for citizens who have a reduction in voting stations in their neighborhoods, and thus have to deal with long lines.
Not everyone knows they can get their ID's renewed by mail. This was going on prior to covid. Isn't it suspicious that such closures are mainly in poor and minority neighborhoods?


You didn’t answer the question, why is water from the poll watchers and election judges not acceptable? Vote harvesting should be discouraged in my opinion, do you agree?

Why is extending the early voting not acceptable to reduce the long lines?

Why do you think people cannot find the information to renew IDs by mail? It’s written on the renewal notice.

I would like to understand your point of view as to why these measures are not acceptable. You (and KK) seem to be rigid in thinking it’s your way or the highway. I understand this is part of asd traits but also think we must overcome these when having a real conversation to solve the world’s problems. Otherwise we are just debating to debate, which is also acceptable to me.



In answer to your question: there's nothing wrong in itself about those things. But why can't anyone else out of the goodness of their hearts bring voters water?
I think DW_a_mom answered the ID part of your question very well, as it's cost prohibitive for many low income people. And that's the very logic behind this form of voter suppression.


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Kraichgauer
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25 Jan 2022, 6:55 pm

Back on track with the subject at hand, I thought I'd share this:

https://www.yahoo.com/news/mcconnell-no ... 16684.html


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txfz1
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25 Jan 2022, 7:55 pm

Kraichgauer wrote:
txfz1 wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
txfz1 wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:

What's wrong with concerned citizens, or family or friends bringing voters water? Perhaps it's intended to encourage voters to go home without voting when standing in line too long?
Sure most people have ID's, but it's suspicious that licensing offices in certain neighborhoods get closed down.


They can, just need to fill out the caregivers form. Why is the water provided by the poll watchers and election judges bad, there is usually a water fountain nearby in all public buildings? Most people carry water with them everywhere, I usually do. I'm not judging you but this is a silly reason to implement the federal overtaking of states rights.

Lots of reasons to close licensing offices, covid was one, utilization/optimizations, etc. Where is the logic that it is restricting voting when most people have IDs? FWIW, my time for in-person renewal was due but I was out of state and I was able to do it by mail. I just don't see where your complaint has merit.


Why should anyone have to fill out a caregiver's form for just giving water to someone in need? The whole idea behind this is to make voting uncomfortable for citizens who have a reduction in voting stations in their neighborhoods, and thus have to deal with long lines.
Not everyone knows they can get their ID's renewed by mail. This was going on prior to covid. Isn't it suspicious that such closures are mainly in poor and minority neighborhoods?


You didn’t answer the question, why is water from the poll watchers and election judges not acceptable? Vote harvesting should be discouraged in my opinion, do you agree?

Why is extending the early voting not acceptable to reduce the long lines?

Why do you think people cannot find the information to renew IDs by mail? It’s written on the renewal notice.

I would like to understand your point of view as to why these measures are not acceptable. You (and KK) seem to be rigid in thinking it’s your way or the highway. I understand this is part of asd traits but also think we must overcome these when having a real conversation to solve the world’s problems. Otherwise we are just debating to debate, which is also acceptable to me.



In answer to your question: there's nothing wrong in itself about those things. But why can't anyone else out of the goodness of their hearts bring voters water?
I think DW_a_mom answered the ID part of your question very well, as it's cost prohibitive for many low income people. And that's the very logic behind this form of voter suppression.


They can, nothing is stopping them.



Kraichgauer
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25 Jan 2022, 9:02 pm

^^^
I'm liable to believe people in extreme poverty who choose eating and paying rent over renewing an ID.


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DW_a_mom
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25 Jan 2022, 9:54 pm

txfz1 wrote:
DW_a_mom wrote:
txfz1 wrote:

Voter ID, are ya’ll seriously believing people cannot get IDs in this day? That is an insult to every adult as there are very few cases where it is applicable.


Actually, yes, it can be hard for some people.

It costs money.
It has to be done at certain locations within certain hours that people without transportation or with certain job hours may not be able to meet.
You have to provide copies of documents you may not have handy and may need to pay for (and what if you don’t have things like utility bills for backup?).
It often requires a numbered street address which some jurisdictions (like some Indian reservations) don’t provide.

That is just off the top of my head.

Even then, it is rarely about having ID, but about having the “right” ID. Not expired, a driver’s license but not student ID, etc. Go back to my coworker whose US passport was not good enough to register with in the state of Pennsylvania, according to the registration worker.

Remember all these measures are designed to sound reasonable, while being specifically targeted to make things more difficult for specific groups.

It is designed to discourage, just like my coworker being sent home to return with a different document.

In all prosecuted cases of voting fraud (which is aggressively pursued but is rarely found) only maybe one or two involved someone trying to vote under someone else’s name. It is a “solution” in want of a problem, so one should ask why it is offered.

And this is only one example. Most of the measures are similarly insidious.


The requirement for real ID was difficult but iirc, this should have solved the problem of missing documents. This is across the board for everyone not just minorities. The Real ID is a federal requirement. In Texas, here is the list of supplement docs that can be used to vote.

Here is a list of the supporting forms of ID that can be presented if the voter does not possess one of the forms of acceptable photo ID and cannot reasonably obtain one:

copy or original of a government document that shows the voter’s name and an address, including the voter’s voter registration certificate;
copy of or original current utility bill;
copy of or original bank statement;
copy of or original government check;
copy of or original paycheck; or
copy of or original of (a) a certified domestic (from a U.S. state or territory) birth certificate or (b) a document confirming birth admissible in a court of law which establishes the voter’s identity (which may include a foreign birth document).

So, I don’t see this as an issue that suppresses the minorities from voting.


Walk yourself through that list as someone unemployed couch surfing with friends.

Or a battered wife whose name isn’t on anything.

Shall I brainstorm more?

People who don’t fly and don’t cross borders don’t need and most likely do not have a real ID.

Hard to imagine what life would be like if you didn’t have the level of privilege you do, isn’t it?


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26 Jan 2022, 4:17 am

txfz1 wrote:
Voter ID, are ya’ll seriously believing people cannot get IDs in this day? That is an insult to every adult as there are very few cases where it is applicable.

they can't get IDs if they have no money to pay taxi fare to [likely] the next county that has a gov't office. in those states with the most official disenfranchisement going on, much of the population is rural and poor with no transportation. AND THERE IS NO VOTER FRAUD!! !



Kraichgauer
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26 Jan 2022, 4:35 am

auntblabby wrote:
txfz1 wrote:
Voter ID, are ya’ll seriously believing people cannot get IDs in this day? That is an insult to every adult as there are very few cases where it is applicable.

they can't get IDs if they have no money to pay taxi fare to [likely] the next county that has a gov't office. in those states with the most official disenfranchisement going on, much of the population is rural and poor with no transportation. AND THERE IS NO VOTER FRAUD!! !


That last part, especially, had to be said.


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