A US Trucker Convoy To Washington DC Will Begin On March 4th
Kraichgauer
Veteran
Joined: 12 Apr 2010
Gender: Male
Posts: 47,836
Location: Spokane area, Washington state.
09 Feb 2022, 11:19 pm
Brictoria wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
Dox47 wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
Wasn't much disenfranchised about the Capitol rioters, unless you buy into their argument that middle class white men are discriminated against.
Wow, another complete non-sequitur having no relationship to what I actually said.
I'm commenting on the motivation of the demonstrators
Given we're talking about a current protest, starting a statement in the past tense was a rather obvious demonstration of the fact you were launching yet another non-sequitur.
As the convoy which is being discussed hasn't reached the capitol (from the article: "It is unclear if, or when, the U.S. convoy will reach Washington") depite your talking about them being there, the attempted backtracking is rather weak.
As an aside, the least reliable person to discuss the "motivations" of a group is someone like yourself who has expressed open hostility to the group and its members...
Who says there won't be that motivation among at least some of the truck drivers?
Just because I express hostility to a certain group of people doesn't mean I'm wrong about their motivation.
_________________
-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer
09 Feb 2022, 11:31 pm
Kraichgauer wrote:
Brictoria wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
Dox47 wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
Wasn't much disenfranchised about the Capitol rioters, unless you buy into their argument that middle class white men are discriminated against.
Wow, another complete non-sequitur having no relationship to what I actually said.
I'm commenting on the motivation of the demonstrators
Given we're talking about a current protest, starting a statement in the past tense was a rather obvious demonstration of the fact you were launching yet another non-sequitur.
As the convoy which is being discussed hasn't reached the capitol (from the article: "It is unclear if, or when, the U.S. convoy will reach Washington") depite your talking about them being there, the attempted backtracking is rather weak.
As an aside, the least reliable person to discuss the "motivations" of a group is someone like yourself who has expressed open hostility to the group and its members...
Who says there won't be that motivation among at least some of the truck drivers?
Just because I express hostility to a certain group of people doesn't mean I'm wrong about their motivation.
Well, it's nice to see we're past the attempts to deny the obvious non-sequitur...That's a good start.
As to the motives, we only have what they have stated to go on. Attempts to pre-emptively smear them, however, by assigning negative motives does show evidence that the person doing so isn't concerned so much with objective facts or the truth as they are with deliberately providing misinformation to anyone who reads their posts\listens to them in the form of their opinions being presented as though they were factual...
Kraichgauer
Veteran
Joined: 12 Apr 2010
Gender: Male
Posts: 47,836
Location: Spokane area, Washington state.
10 Feb 2022, 12:34 am
Kraichgauer wrote:
Well, then of course there's the whole anti-vax idiocy they seem to have bought into.
How would you define "anti-vax"?
Being against all vaccines?
Being against one specific "vaccine"\set of "vaccines", yet in favour of all others?
Being in favor of all "vaccines" in general, but against forcing people to have to take a "vaccine" they do not want?
One of these is "anti-vax", another is "vaccine-hesitant" (for want of a better term), and one is another form of support for the principle of "my body, my choice".
Kraichgauer
Veteran
Joined: 12 Apr 2010
Gender: Male
Posts: 47,836
Location: Spokane area, Washington state.
10 Feb 2022, 12:47 am
Brictoria wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
Well, then of course there's the whole anti-vax idiocy they seem to have bought into.
How would you define "anti-vax"?
Being against all vaccines?
Being against one specific "vaccine"\set of "vaccines", yet in favour of all others?
Being in favor of all "vaccines" in general, but against forcing people to have to take a "vaccine" they do not want?
One of these is "anti-vax", another is "vaccine-hesitant" (for want of a better term), and one is another form of support for the principle of "my body, my choice".
I define it as denying legitimate science for irrational or politically inspired prejudice. That's just what the rejection of the Covid vaccine is.
And it just isn't "my body my choice," as such a wrong decision can infect and harm or kill others.
_________________
-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer
10 Feb 2022, 2:13 am
Kraichgauer wrote:
Brictoria wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
Well, then of course there's the whole anti-vax idiocy they seem to have bought into.
How would you define "anti-vax"?
Being against all vaccines?
Being against one specific "vaccine"\set of "vaccines", yet in favour of all others?
Being in favor of all "vaccines" in general, but against forcing people to have to take a "vaccine" they do not want?
One of these is "anti-vax", another is "vaccine-hesitant" (for want of a better term), and one is another form of support for the principle of "my body, my choice".
I define it as denying legitimate science for irrational or politically inspired prejudice. That's just what the rejection of the Covid vaccine is.
Which "legitimate science" do you refer to: There are so many countries (and states) which "follow the science", yet differ widely in what it recommends.
Or maybe you mean "political science" - which isn't science at all.
Kraichgauer wrote:
And it just isn't "my body my choice," as such a wrong decision can infect and harm or kill others.
I guess this site (and those who reference it) musn't know too much about "science" then, if not having been vaccinated means you "infect and harm or kill others", but being vaccinated prevents this:
Quote:
Vaccine effectiveness studies have conclusively demonstrated the benefit of COVID-19 vaccines in reducing individual symptomatic and severe disease, resulting in reduced hospitalisations and intensive care unit admissions. However, the impact of vaccination on transmissibility of SARS-CoV-2 needs to be elucidated.
A prospective cohort study in the UK by Anika Singanayagam and colleagues regarding community transmission of SARS-CoV-2 among unvaccinated and vaccinated individuals provides important information that needs to be considered in reassessing vaccination policies.
This study showed that the impact of vaccination on community transmission of circulating variants of SARS-CoV-2 appeared to be not significantly different from the impact among unvaccinated people.
The scientific rationale for mandatory vaccination in the USA relies on the premise that vaccination prevents transmission to others, resulting in a “pandemic of the unvaccinated”.
Yet, the demonstration of COVID-19 breakthrough infections among fully vaccinated health-care workers (HCW) in Israel, who in turn may transmit this infection to their patients, requires a reassessment of compulsory vaccination policies leading to the job dismissal of unvaccinated HCW in the USA.
A prospective cohort study in the UK by Anika Singanayagam and colleagues regarding community transmission of SARS-CoV-2 among unvaccinated and vaccinated individuals provides important information that needs to be considered in reassessing vaccination policies.
This study showed that the impact of vaccination on community transmission of circulating variants of SARS-CoV-2 appeared to be not significantly different from the impact among unvaccinated people.
The scientific rationale for mandatory vaccination in the USA relies on the premise that vaccination prevents transmission to others, resulting in a “pandemic of the unvaccinated”.
Yet, the demonstration of COVID-19 breakthrough infections among fully vaccinated health-care workers (HCW) in Israel, who in turn may transmit this infection to their patients, requires a reassessment of compulsory vaccination policies leading to the job dismissal of unvaccinated HCW in the USA.
Source: https://www.thelancet.com/journals/laninf/article/PIIS1473-3099%2821%2900768-4/fulltext
I guess you know so much more about "science" that those people who produced the above infomation, so we should take your word over theirs? Remind me again, what were your qualifications, exactly?
10 Feb 2022, 2:37 am
Science said:
We invented a vaccine that will keep people from infecting others!!
When you are vaxxed you can't get Covid!!
Also when you've had Covid you will have natural immunity!
Antibody tests are reliable to say if you have natural immunity and can avoid vaccines
We only need one vaccine injection if we dont have natural immunity
Everyone get AZ!
OOPS - AZ causes blood clots!
Then, only older people get AZ!
Then nope, nobody should get AZ! (even though some people had double AZ by then)
Then whoops, our natural immunity doesn't last very long
People are getting Covid a second time even when they are vaccinated
Then they said get Pfizer or Moderna instead of AZ if possible
There's a Johnson Johnson brand but that one's bad
But get it if you want it
Oh wait, people will need two injections now instead of one because our antibody tests weren't accurate
In USA the vaccines are best administered roughly two weeks apart (according to WHO)
In Canada they are best administered four months apart (according to WHO) -- strange contradiction
USA's timeline is better
Canada's timeline is better
Oh wait, Canada's are on backorder so you have to wait even more months but that's actually better
Oh wait, they arrived early so come now, that's actually better than what we said before
Get Pfizer or Moderna but don't mix them
Oh wait, it's OK to mix them
Oh wait, it's better to mix them
Oh wait, these vaccines don't work very well for Omicron
And vaccinated people can still transmit the virus to others -- they can still be carriers
Oh wait, maybe we need a third dose even though it's not really made for Omicron
Sign up now for your fourth dose!
Oh wait, Omicron has another subvariant but the vaccine will keep you out of hospital
Whoops no, people with three vaccines are still being admitted to hospital
Oh, Trudeau wants to mandate vaccines so that no one will get Omicron (or bad symptoms)
But wait, Trudeau gets Omicron despite having three vaccines AND a prior case of original Covid-19
So the vaccines and prior exposure didn't keep him from getting it a second time
Seems like herd immunity isn't working
But wait - vaccines are causing problems for some women and pregnancies
But that's OK - they must still get more vaccines even if they experienced complications with the first ones
It just never ends.
Then there's the "science" of - Covid can last 48 hours on surfaces - wash all your groceries
No, it can only last 12 hours
No, it can't last at all
Oh wait, it's airborne
Oh wait, your mask will help protect you
Oh wait, no .. masks only protect other people
Wash your hands
But Covid doesn't last on surfaces so you don't need to wash your hands as much
But use hand sanitiser
But oh wait, now Covid travels in the air and we breathe it in
But we're immune if we've been vaccinated
But no we're not, because people are still catching Covid after being vaccinated 1,2,3 times
This is why some people prefer to do their own research.
My friend is a PhD Epidemiology Covid specialist. She says the information changes every day, but Public Health is only updated sporadically after all the peer-reviewed studies are accepted and sold
We are always months behind the newest information
_________________
And in the end, the love you take is equal to the love you make.
Kraichgauer
Veteran
Joined: 12 Apr 2010
Gender: Male
Posts: 47,836
Location: Spokane area, Washington state.
10 Feb 2022, 3:11 am
Brictoria wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
Brictoria wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
Well, then of course there's the whole anti-vax idiocy they seem to have bought into.
How would you define "anti-vax"?
Being against all vaccines?
Being against one specific "vaccine"\set of "vaccines", yet in favour of all others?
Being in favor of all "vaccines" in general, but against forcing people to have to take a "vaccine" they do not want?
One of these is "anti-vax", another is "vaccine-hesitant" (for want of a better term), and one is another form of support for the principle of "my body, my choice".
I define it as denying legitimate science for irrational or politically inspired prejudice. That's just what the rejection of the Covid vaccine is.
Which "legitimate science" do you refer to: There are so many countries (and states) which "follow the science", yet differ widely in what it recommends.
Or maybe you mean "political science" - which isn't science at all.
Kraichgauer wrote:
And it just isn't "my body my choice," as such a wrong decision can infect and harm or kill others.
I guess this site (and those who reference it) musn't know too much about "science" then, if not having been vaccinated means you "infect and harm or kill others", but being vaccinated prevents this:
Quote:
Vaccine effectiveness studies have conclusively demonstrated the benefit of COVID-19 vaccines in reducing individual symptomatic and severe disease, resulting in reduced hospitalisations and intensive care unit admissions. However, the impact of vaccination on transmissibility of SARS-CoV-2 needs to be elucidated.
A prospective cohort study in the UK by Anika Singanayagam and colleagues regarding community transmission of SARS-CoV-2 among unvaccinated and vaccinated individuals provides important information that needs to be considered in reassessing vaccination policies.
This study showed that the impact of vaccination on community transmission of circulating variants of SARS-CoV-2 appeared to be not significantly different from the impact among unvaccinated people.
The scientific rationale for mandatory vaccination in the USA relies on the premise that vaccination prevents transmission to others, resulting in a “pandemic of the unvaccinated”.
Yet, the demonstration of COVID-19 breakthrough infections among fully vaccinated health-care workers (HCW) in Israel, who in turn may transmit this infection to their patients, requires a reassessment of compulsory vaccination policies leading to the job dismissal of unvaccinated HCW in the USA.
A prospective cohort study in the UK by Anika Singanayagam and colleagues regarding community transmission of SARS-CoV-2 among unvaccinated and vaccinated individuals provides important information that needs to be considered in reassessing vaccination policies.
This study showed that the impact of vaccination on community transmission of circulating variants of SARS-CoV-2 appeared to be not significantly different from the impact among unvaccinated people.
The scientific rationale for mandatory vaccination in the USA relies on the premise that vaccination prevents transmission to others, resulting in a “pandemic of the unvaccinated”.
Yet, the demonstration of COVID-19 breakthrough infections among fully vaccinated health-care workers (HCW) in Israel, who in turn may transmit this infection to their patients, requires a reassessment of compulsory vaccination policies leading to the job dismissal of unvaccinated HCW in the USA.
Source: https://www.thelancet.com/journals/laninf/article/PIIS1473-3099%2821%2900768-4/fulltext
I guess you know so much more about "science" that those people who produced the above infomation, so we should take your word over theirs? Remind me again, what were your qualifications, exactly?
What are you depending on? The sort of "science" denying the validity of masks and vaccines promoted by Trump's glorified x ray tech, Dr. Atlas? Or that optometrist, Rand Paul (the guy who headed the medical board that certified him)? I think I'll stick to legitimate men of science like Dr. Fauci.
By the way, it's clearly the anti vax crowd in the Covid dog fight that's influenced by politics, not those of us depending on science.
_________________
-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer
10 Feb 2022, 5:11 am
Kraichgauer wrote:
Brictoria wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
Brictoria wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
Well, then of course there's the whole anti-vax idiocy they seem to have bought into.
How would you define "anti-vax"?
Being against all vaccines?
Being against one specific "vaccine"\set of "vaccines", yet in favour of all others?
Being in favor of all "vaccines" in general, but against forcing people to have to take a "vaccine" they do not want?
One of these is "anti-vax", another is "vaccine-hesitant" (for want of a better term), and one is another form of support for the principle of "my body, my choice".
I define it as denying legitimate science for irrational or politically inspired prejudice. That's just what the rejection of the Covid vaccine is.
Which "legitimate science" do you refer to: There are so many countries (and states) which "follow the science", yet differ widely in what it recommends.
Or maybe you mean "political science" - which isn't science at all.
Kraichgauer wrote:
And it just isn't "my body my choice," as such a wrong decision can infect and harm or kill others.
I guess this site (and those who reference it) musn't know too much about "science" then, if not having been vaccinated means you "infect and harm or kill others", but being vaccinated prevents this:
Quote:
Vaccine effectiveness studies have conclusively demonstrated the benefit of COVID-19 vaccines in reducing individual symptomatic and severe disease, resulting in reduced hospitalisations and intensive care unit admissions. However, the impact of vaccination on transmissibility of SARS-CoV-2 needs to be elucidated.
A prospective cohort study in the UK by Anika Singanayagam and colleagues regarding community transmission of SARS-CoV-2 among unvaccinated and vaccinated individuals provides important information that needs to be considered in reassessing vaccination policies.
This study showed that the impact of vaccination on community transmission of circulating variants of SARS-CoV-2 appeared to be not significantly different from the impact among unvaccinated people.
The scientific rationale for mandatory vaccination in the USA relies on the premise that vaccination prevents transmission to others, resulting in a “pandemic of the unvaccinated”.
Yet, the demonstration of COVID-19 breakthrough infections among fully vaccinated health-care workers (HCW) in Israel, who in turn may transmit this infection to their patients, requires a reassessment of compulsory vaccination policies leading to the job dismissal of unvaccinated HCW in the USA.
A prospective cohort study in the UK by Anika Singanayagam and colleagues regarding community transmission of SARS-CoV-2 among unvaccinated and vaccinated individuals provides important information that needs to be considered in reassessing vaccination policies.
This study showed that the impact of vaccination on community transmission of circulating variants of SARS-CoV-2 appeared to be not significantly different from the impact among unvaccinated people.
The scientific rationale for mandatory vaccination in the USA relies on the premise that vaccination prevents transmission to others, resulting in a “pandemic of the unvaccinated”.
Yet, the demonstration of COVID-19 breakthrough infections among fully vaccinated health-care workers (HCW) in Israel, who in turn may transmit this infection to their patients, requires a reassessment of compulsory vaccination policies leading to the job dismissal of unvaccinated HCW in the USA.
Source: https://www.thelancet.com/journals/laninf/article/PIIS1473-3099%2821%2900768-4/fulltext
I guess you know so much more about "science" that those people who produced the above infomation, so we should take your word over theirs? Remind me again, what were your qualifications, exactly?
What are you depending on? The sort of "science" denying the validity of masks and vaccines promoted by Trump's glorified x ray tech, Dr. Atlas? Or that optometrist, Rand Paul (the guy who headed the medical board that certified him)?
No, I prefer the type of science that involves actual experimentation and research, testing other's claims to see if they can be replicated, etc.
I also prefer to look at the studies (and think for) myself, rather than having to be spoon-fed what to think by others (such as Mr Fauci).
Kraichgauer wrote:
I think I'll stick to legitimate men of science like Dr. Fauci.
You mean this Dr. Fauci?
Quote:
Had Fauci listened to people with AIDS and the clinicians treating them, and responded accordingly, he would have saved thousands of lives. In the two years between 1987, when Callen met with Fauci and 1989, when the guidelines were ultimately issued, nearly 17,000 people with AIDS suffocated from PCP. Most of these people might have lived had Fauci responded appropriately.
[...]
Fauci refused to acknowledge the evidence and, according to one account, even encouraged people with AIDS to stop taking treatments, like Bactrim, that weren't specifically approved for use in people with AIDS. Longtime treatment activist Richard Jefferys wrote in 2001 that Fauci "went as far as telling activists attending a 1987 meeting that there was no data to suggest PCP prophylaxis was beneficial and that it may, in fact be dangerous." Fauci's close colleague, Dr. Samuel Broder, who was head of the National Cancer Institute, even suggested -- in the absence of any evidence at all -- that the newly introduced antiretroviral, AZT, would make prophylaxis against PCP redundant!
[...]
Fauci refused to acknowledge the evidence and, according to one account, even encouraged people with AIDS to stop taking treatments, like Bactrim, that weren't specifically approved for use in people with AIDS. Longtime treatment activist Richard Jefferys wrote in 2001 that Fauci "went as far as telling activists attending a 1987 meeting that there was no data to suggest PCP prophylaxis was beneficial and that it may, in fact be dangerous." Fauci's close colleague, Dr. Samuel Broder, who was head of the National Cancer Institute, even suggested -- in the absence of any evidence at all -- that the newly introduced antiretroviral, AZT, would make prophylaxis against PCP redundant!
Source: https://www.huffpost.com/entry/whitewashing-aids-history_b_4762295
Or this Dr. Fauci:
Quote:
DR Anthony Fauci is coming under fire once more after the National Institute of Health was accused of spending $1.2million on beagles to use for medical experiments.
Peta has accused the NIH and other labs of purchasing 5,000 beagle dogs and puppies over the past decade from Virginia-based supplier Envigo for experiments where the dogs were allegedly confined and some tortured.
Peta has accused the NIH and other labs of purchasing 5,000 beagle dogs and puppies over the past decade from Virginia-based supplier Envigo for experiments where the dogs were allegedly confined and some tortured.
Source:https://www.the-sun.com/news/4361131/dr-anthony-fauci-nih-paid-beagles-medical-experiments/
Or this Dr. Fauci:
Quote:
Dr. Anthony Fauci on Sunday defended the US giving hundreds of thousands of dollars for research at a Wuhan lab studying whether bat coronaviruses could be transmitted to humans — saying that it would have been “negligent” not to do so.
Source: https://nypost.com/2021/07/25/anthony-fauci-defends-us-funding-research-at-wuhan-lab/
Which of those Dr. Fauci's was the one you called a "legitimate man of science"? And what are your opinion of the others?
Kraichgauer wrote:
By the way, it's clearly the anti vax crowd in the Covid dog fight that's influenced by politics, not those of us depending on science.
Unsurprisingly, you seem to have missed the politicisation from the other side, not to mention the "othering" of those they term "anti-vax", in an effort to dehumaise them.
10 Feb 2022, 6:49 am
Brictoria wrote:
Dox47 wrote:
Hah, if this actually turns into something, I'll happily eat the hypocrisy charge just to watch all the liberals try and weasel their way out of the "protests are supposed to be disruptive", "riots are the voice of the disenfranchised" type rhetoric they've been using all these years, it'll be hilarious.
You mean something like this?
You can complain about the specific form of disruption, while still accepting that protest should be disruptive. Unless we just want to be superficial.
10 Feb 2022, 9:25 am
What would have happened had Martin Luther King not pursued his aims in the way that he pursued his aims? Sometimes, he had to do things which I would have not have agreed with in order to succeed.
He protested against the conditions under which people of African descent were experiencing----for generations.
By the way, I'm not a person who believes in civil disobedience and all that stuff. I don't have an activist mindset.
I believe people have the right to peacefully protest.....but don't have the right to block traffic and commerce.
Let's hope cool heads prevail within the upcoming trucker protest. Let's hope the protest is not dominated by similar people as those who perpetrated the 1/6/2021 Insurrection.
10 Feb 2022, 12:36 pm
With Appropriate
Lock Downs, Contact
Tracing, Testing, Masks,
Social Distancing, And Vaccines It's True Covid-19
Will Be Stopped Almost "Dead In its Tracks,"
If An Authoritative Government Requires
Most Everyone in the Population to Comply;
So What's The Evidence of This, Oh Yes, 'The
Pros' At Controlling Pandemics of Course Where They
Have Recently
Come From
In Origin Most;
Yeah, Baby, China, So Yes,
Let's Look Up the Globally
Free Data on the Country
That is Often Not Even Counted
As Being Human Yet Happy Valentine's
Day 2020, As That Was the Day New Cases of
Covid-19 Peaked At 6,460 Cases in China And One Doesn't
Need to Fast Forward Too Long in 'Time' To See the
Resolution of the Covid-19 Spread Come to Nearly a
Flat-Line End by March, 12, 2020 at 8 New Cases then...
March, 12, 2020, The Last Day 'They' Had the Metro Dance Hall Open in
my Locality And The Last Real Safe Day it Seems then For Folks to Gather
Close Together And Dance So Free; So Yes, With Appropriate Measures,
Covid-19 Will Be Stopped Almost Dead in its Tracks of Spread As True
Just Compare the Number of Deaths in Our Rather Small U.S. Country of Less
than 400 Million Folks at 900,000 Deaths in the USA, Dead, Dead Dead and
The Country
of China With
1.4 Billion People
And 4,636 Deaths
With Only 107 Thousand
Total Cases Recorded, So HeaR
Is How it Goes As World History Shows
When Pandemics Come Governments Become
Naturally More Authoritarian to Control and
Protect the Citizens From Spreading
Disease
And Death So
Those Who Do,
Don't Die Nearly as Much
As Again, Let's Do the Simple
Math And Compare 900,000 Folks
Dead, Dead, in the Country That Uses 40
Percent of the World's Human Resources
With 4 Percent of the World's Population
As With Abundance Comes Either Balance
Or Greed and Lust For More 'Stuff' And Power; The Human
Condition is Nope, Not Well suited for Instant Gratification;
The Folks In China Understand This And Rule And Survive
Understanding
What Human
Nature
Is and Does
in Balance Or Not...
Of Course, 'They' Have
Not Lived in Nearly the
Abundance, The Environment
Naturally Provides in the United States...
Given Enough Freedom for Foolish Behavior
China May Fall to the Same Depths of Ignorance as the
The Folks
In this Country,
the United States
Ironically Still Addicted to Ignorance DO...
Yet It's True, Given Enough Freedom to
Spread, The Virus Will Get Weaker too...
Life's
Little
Ironies,
Struggle
Makes Ya Stronger...
"Sleeping Giants" And "All that Jazz"....
"Truckers In Canada," Same Old Damned
Human Story...
Spreading
Wherever
Ignorance
Is Either
Welcome,
Tolerated,
OR
Accepted
As Gospel Truth Lies...
And to Be Clear, i Wasn't
Wearing A Mask on March 12th
2020 As the Doctor's Suggest Now
i Was Busy Recovering From January 2020, Covid-19,
Before Anyone Even Knew it Already Arrived Where i Live...
-Typhoid Fred too...
Hehe, Yet
i Have A
Doctor's
Excuse... too...
https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/china/
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Kraichgauer
Veteran
Joined: 12 Apr 2010
Gender: Male
Posts: 47,836
Location: Spokane area, Washington state.
10 Feb 2022, 5:27 pm
Brictoria wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
Brictoria wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
Brictoria wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
Well, then of course there's the whole anti-vax idiocy they seem to have bought into.
How would you define "anti-vax"?
Being against all vaccines?
Being against one specific "vaccine"\set of "vaccines", yet in favour of all others?
Being in favor of all "vaccines" in general, but against forcing people to have to take a "vaccine" they do not want?
One of these is "anti-vax", another is "vaccine-hesitant" (for want of a better term), and one is another form of support for the principle of "my body, my choice".
I define it as denying legitimate science for irrational or politically inspired prejudice. That's just what the rejection of the Covid vaccine is.
Which "legitimate science" do you refer to: There are so many countries (and states) which "follow the science", yet differ widely in what it recommends.
Or maybe you mean "political science" - which isn't science at all.
Kraichgauer wrote:
And it just isn't "my body my choice," as such a wrong decision can infect and harm or kill others.
I guess this site (and those who reference it) musn't know too much about "science" then, if not having been vaccinated means you "infect and harm or kill others", but being vaccinated prevents this:
Quote:
Vaccine effectiveness studies have conclusively demonstrated the benefit of COVID-19 vaccines in reducing individual symptomatic and severe disease, resulting in reduced hospitalisations and intensive care unit admissions. However, the impact of vaccination on transmissibility of SARS-CoV-2 needs to be elucidated.
A prospective cohort study in the UK by Anika Singanayagam and colleagues regarding community transmission of SARS-CoV-2 among unvaccinated and vaccinated individuals provides important information that needs to be considered in reassessing vaccination policies.
This study showed that the impact of vaccination on community transmission of circulating variants of SARS-CoV-2 appeared to be not significantly different from the impact among unvaccinated people.
The scientific rationale for mandatory vaccination in the USA relies on the premise that vaccination prevents transmission to others, resulting in a “pandemic of the unvaccinated”.
Yet, the demonstration of COVID-19 breakthrough infections among fully vaccinated health-care workers (HCW) in Israel, who in turn may transmit this infection to their patients, requires a reassessment of compulsory vaccination policies leading to the job dismissal of unvaccinated HCW in the USA.
A prospective cohort study in the UK by Anika Singanayagam and colleagues regarding community transmission of SARS-CoV-2 among unvaccinated and vaccinated individuals provides important information that needs to be considered in reassessing vaccination policies.
This study showed that the impact of vaccination on community transmission of circulating variants of SARS-CoV-2 appeared to be not significantly different from the impact among unvaccinated people.
The scientific rationale for mandatory vaccination in the USA relies on the premise that vaccination prevents transmission to others, resulting in a “pandemic of the unvaccinated”.
Yet, the demonstration of COVID-19 breakthrough infections among fully vaccinated health-care workers (HCW) in Israel, who in turn may transmit this infection to their patients, requires a reassessment of compulsory vaccination policies leading to the job dismissal of unvaccinated HCW in the USA.
Source: https://www.thelancet.com/journals/laninf/article/PIIS1473-3099%2821%2900768-4/fulltext
I guess you know so much more about "science" that those people who produced the above infomation, so we should take your word over theirs? Remind me again, what were your qualifications, exactly?
What are you depending on? The sort of "science" denying the validity of masks and vaccines promoted by Trump's glorified x ray tech, Dr. Atlas? Or that optometrist, Rand Paul (the guy who headed the medical board that certified him)?
No, I prefer the type of science that involves actual experimentation and research, testing other's claims to see if they can be replicated, etc.
I also prefer to look at the studies (and think for) myself, rather than having to be spoon-fed what to think by others (such as Mr Fauci).
Kraichgauer wrote:
I think I'll stick to legitimate men of science like Dr. Fauci.
You mean this Dr. Fauci?
Quote:
Had Fauci listened to people with AIDS and the clinicians treating them, and responded accordingly, he would have saved thousands of lives. In the two years between 1987, when Callen met with Fauci and 1989, when the guidelines were ultimately issued, nearly 17,000 people with AIDS suffocated from PCP. Most of these people might have lived had Fauci responded appropriately.
[...]
Fauci refused to acknowledge the evidence and, according to one account, even encouraged people with AIDS to stop taking treatments, like Bactrim, that weren't specifically approved for use in people with AIDS. Longtime treatment activist Richard Jefferys wrote in 2001 that Fauci "went as far as telling activists attending a 1987 meeting that there was no data to suggest PCP prophylaxis was beneficial and that it may, in fact be dangerous." Fauci's close colleague, Dr. Samuel Broder, who was head of the National Cancer Institute, even suggested -- in the absence of any evidence at all -- that the newly introduced antiretroviral, AZT, would make prophylaxis against PCP redundant!
[...]
Fauci refused to acknowledge the evidence and, according to one account, even encouraged people with AIDS to stop taking treatments, like Bactrim, that weren't specifically approved for use in people with AIDS. Longtime treatment activist Richard Jefferys wrote in 2001 that Fauci "went as far as telling activists attending a 1987 meeting that there was no data to suggest PCP prophylaxis was beneficial and that it may, in fact be dangerous." Fauci's close colleague, Dr. Samuel Broder, who was head of the National Cancer Institute, even suggested -- in the absence of any evidence at all -- that the newly introduced antiretroviral, AZT, would make prophylaxis against PCP redundant!
Source: https://www.huffpost.com/entry/whitewashing-aids-history_b_4762295
Or this Dr. Fauci:
Quote:
DR Anthony Fauci is coming under fire once more after the National Institute of Health was accused of spending $1.2million on beagles to use for medical experiments.
Peta has accused the NIH and other labs of purchasing 5,000 beagle dogs and puppies over the past decade from Virginia-based supplier Envigo for experiments where the dogs were allegedly confined and some tortured.
Peta has accused the NIH and other labs of purchasing 5,000 beagle dogs and puppies over the past decade from Virginia-based supplier Envigo for experiments where the dogs were allegedly confined and some tortured.
Source:https://www.the-sun.com/news/4361131/dr-anthony-fauci-nih-paid-beagles-medical-experiments/
Or this Dr. Fauci:
Quote:
Dr. Anthony Fauci on Sunday defended the US giving hundreds of thousands of dollars for research at a Wuhan lab studying whether bat coronaviruses could be transmitted to humans — saying that it would have been “negligent” not to do so.
Source: https://nypost.com/2021/07/25/anthony-fauci-defends-us-funding-research-at-wuhan-lab/
Which of those Dr. Fauci's was the one you called a "legitimate man of science"? And what are your opinion of the others?
Kraichgauer wrote:
By the way, it's clearly the anti vax crowd in the Covid dog fight that's influenced by politics, not those of us depending on science.
Unsurprisingly, you seem to have missed the politicisation from the other side, not to mention the "othering" of those they term "anti-vax", in an effort to dehumaise them.
I'm still going to take Fauci at his word over crackpots and cranks who are pulling a fast one on the anti-vax movement.
Nothing dehumanizing about that term.
Peta are a bunch of loons for the most part.
_________________
-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer
10 Feb 2022, 6:42 pm
aghogday wrote:
The Country
of China With
1.4 Billion People
And 4,636 Deaths
With Only 107 Thousand
Total Cases Recorded, So HeaR
of China With
1.4 Billion People
And 4,636 Deaths
With Only 107 Thousand
Total Cases Recorded, So HeaR
Wait, you actually believe the Chinese numbers? Because they're just so trustworthy, particularly regarding a pandemic that originated on their soil?
Oh my.
_________________
“The totally convinced and the totally stupid have too much in common for the resemblance to be accidental.”
-- Robert Anton Wilson
10 Feb 2022, 10:20 pm
Dox47 wrote:
Wait, you actually believe the Chinese numbers? Because they're just so trustworthy, particularly regarding a pandemic that originated on their soil?
Oh my.
Just Reporting the "Official Statistics"
On Covid-19 Infections/Deaths in China;
You Are Welcome to Speculate as You Like;
There Are Expert Opinions For And Against The Validity of the
Statistics; Is There A Possibility That Someone Flushed Available
Paperwork (Data) Down the Toilet; Well, Recently, i've Heard This
Happens in the United States, With Important Government Sensitive
Documents By Folks As High in Public Office As Former President
Trump; Curiously,
Do Leaders Act As
"Criminal" As Trump
Did in China; Perhaps,
Other Than That Just
Reporting the Globally
Provided "Official Statistics."
Other Than This, Thanks for the
Reciprocal Social Communication
And Have A Nice Evening As You Will...
https://www.science.org/content/article/china-s-aggressive-measures-have-slowed-coronavirus-they-may-not-work-other-countries
_________________
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11 Feb 2022, 3:12 am
IsabellaLinton wrote:
Science said:
We invented a vaccine that will keep people from infecting others!!
When you are vaxxed you can't get Covid!!
Also when you've had Covid you will have natural immunity!
Antibody tests are reliable to say if you have natural immunity and can avoid vaccines
We only need one vaccine injection if we dont have natural immunity
Everyone get AZ!
OOPS - AZ causes blood clots!
Then, only older people get AZ!
Then nope, nobody should get AZ! (even though some people had double AZ by then)
Then whoops, our natural immunity doesn't last very long
People are getting Covid a second time even when they are vaccinated
Then they said get Pfizer or Moderna instead of AZ if possible
There's a Johnson Johnson brand but that one's bad
But get it if you want it
Oh wait, people will need two injections now instead of one because our antibody tests weren't accurate
In USA the vaccines are best administered roughly two weeks apart (according to WHO)
In Canada they are best administered four months apart (according to WHO) -- strange contradiction
USA's timeline is better
Canada's timeline is better
Oh wait, Canada's are on backorder so you have to wait even more months but that's actually better
Oh wait, they arrived early so come now, that's actually better than what we said before
Get Pfizer or Moderna but don't mix them
Oh wait, it's OK to mix them
Oh wait, it's better to mix them
Oh wait, these vaccines don't work very well for Omicron
And vaccinated people can still transmit the virus to others -- they can still be carriers
Oh wait, maybe we need a third dose even though it's not really made for Omicron
Sign up now for your fourth dose!
Oh wait, Omicron has another subvariant but the vaccine will keep you out of hospital
Whoops no, people with three vaccines are still being admitted to hospital
Oh, Trudeau wants to mandate vaccines so that no one will get Omicron (or bad symptoms)
But wait, Trudeau gets Omicron despite having three vaccines AND a prior case of original Covid-19
So the vaccines and prior exposure didn't keep him from getting it a second time
Seems like herd immunity isn't working
But wait - vaccines are causing problems for some women and pregnancies
But that's OK - they must still get more vaccines even if they experienced complications with the first ones
It just never ends.
Then there's the "science" of - Covid can last 48 hours on surfaces - wash all your groceries
No, it can only last 12 hours
No, it can't last at all
Oh wait, it's airborne
Oh wait, your mask will help protect you
Oh wait, no .. masks only protect other people
Wash your hands
But Covid doesn't last on surfaces so you don't need to wash your hands as much
But use hand sanitiser
But oh wait, now Covid travels in the air and we breathe it in
But we're immune if we've been vaccinated
But no we're not, because people are still catching Covid after being vaccinated 1,2,3 times
This is why some people prefer to do their own research.
My friend is a PhD Epidemiology Covid specialist. She says the information changes every day, but Public Health is only updated sporadically after all the peer-reviewed studies are accepted and sold
We are always months behind the newest information
We invented a vaccine that will keep people from infecting others!!
When you are vaxxed you can't get Covid!!
Also when you've had Covid you will have natural immunity!
Antibody tests are reliable to say if you have natural immunity and can avoid vaccines
We only need one vaccine injection if we dont have natural immunity
Everyone get AZ!
OOPS - AZ causes blood clots!
Then, only older people get AZ!
Then nope, nobody should get AZ! (even though some people had double AZ by then)
Then whoops, our natural immunity doesn't last very long
People are getting Covid a second time even when they are vaccinated
Then they said get Pfizer or Moderna instead of AZ if possible
There's a Johnson Johnson brand but that one's bad
But get it if you want it
Oh wait, people will need two injections now instead of one because our antibody tests weren't accurate
In USA the vaccines are best administered roughly two weeks apart (according to WHO)
In Canada they are best administered four months apart (according to WHO) -- strange contradiction
USA's timeline is better
Canada's timeline is better
Oh wait, Canada's are on backorder so you have to wait even more months but that's actually better
Oh wait, they arrived early so come now, that's actually better than what we said before
Get Pfizer or Moderna but don't mix them
Oh wait, it's OK to mix them
Oh wait, it's better to mix them
Oh wait, these vaccines don't work very well for Omicron
And vaccinated people can still transmit the virus to others -- they can still be carriers
Oh wait, maybe we need a third dose even though it's not really made for Omicron
Sign up now for your fourth dose!
Oh wait, Omicron has another subvariant but the vaccine will keep you out of hospital
Whoops no, people with three vaccines are still being admitted to hospital
Oh, Trudeau wants to mandate vaccines so that no one will get Omicron (or bad symptoms)
But wait, Trudeau gets Omicron despite having three vaccines AND a prior case of original Covid-19
So the vaccines and prior exposure didn't keep him from getting it a second time
Seems like herd immunity isn't working
But wait - vaccines are causing problems for some women and pregnancies
But that's OK - they must still get more vaccines even if they experienced complications with the first ones
It just never ends.
Then there's the "science" of - Covid can last 48 hours on surfaces - wash all your groceries
No, it can only last 12 hours
No, it can't last at all
Oh wait, it's airborne
Oh wait, your mask will help protect you
Oh wait, no .. masks only protect other people
Wash your hands
But Covid doesn't last on surfaces so you don't need to wash your hands as much
But use hand sanitiser
But oh wait, now Covid travels in the air and we breathe it in
But we're immune if we've been vaccinated
But no we're not, because people are still catching Covid after being vaccinated 1,2,3 times
This is why some people prefer to do their own research.
My friend is a PhD Epidemiology Covid specialist. She says the information changes every day, but Public Health is only updated sporadically after all the peer-reviewed studies are accepted and sold
We are always months behind the newest information
Best post yet.
_________________
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DSM 5: Autism Spectrum Disorder, DSM IV: Aspergers Moderate Severity
“My autism is not a superpower. It also isn’t some kind of god-forsaken, endless fountain of suffering inflicted on my family. It’s just part of who I am as a person”. - Sara Luterman
