European leaders travel to Kyiv

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https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/20 ... ers-visit/

Last edited by magz on 16 Mar 2022, 7:31 am, edited 1 time in total.: title corrected

What does Berlin have to do with it?

They were prime ministers of Poland, Czechia and Slovenia (yes, this time Slovenia not Slovakia).

I have no idea.

Anyway, yes, this visit has happened.

Some commenter I read pointed out how very Slavic the action was.
Slavs love symbols. We can love symbols more than reason sometimes. Symbols carry meanings that live longer than people. That's why Putin can't give up Ukraine - there's no "Great Russia" without Kiev.
The gesture was to show Ukrainians that we don't leave them on their own - and to show Putin that we don't fear him.
Has the message been read properly? I think the intended audiences got it.

There is a lot of bravery in that part of the world.

I'm reading Lithuanian PM is now proposing an international mission to secure humanitarian corridors. You see, we know if Ukraine loses, it would only sharpen the bear's apetite. So, the question is, how to help them more without making it a WWIII.
Humanitarian concerns are relatively uncontroversial.

In this part of the world, we can't be inert. We are already affected, but if Putin gets what he wants using the methods he uses, nothing will stop him (or his successors) from using these methods again and again - next time, on us.

Agreed. Anyone thinking Putin will stop at Ukraine lacks historical perspective.

That's just the dateline.

“The Russian bear is huge and wild,
it has devoured the sleeping child.
The sleeping child is unaware,
that it’s inside the Russian bear.”

He can't go further without an effective force to assign the campaign to and that appears to be an issue.

Russia has a larger percentage of their forces engaged in Ukraine than the US had committed during the peak of the invasion of Iraq; of those forces they're essentially 100% committed. This means whether they like it or not they are likely reaching the culmination of that campaign within the next week or two whether they like it or not.

Of course, that's a fair bit of time for Russia to make gains, but so far it appears their advance has lost momentum. We'll see how things unfold, but I'm anticipating they will fail to capture Odessa, they will fail to capture Kyiv and their forces will start to show more issues as morale plummets.

The point is, Putin and all his possible successors must learn that this method does not work anymore.
If they capture, say, Azov Sea shores, and it gets de facto accepted, they will try again with another chunk next decade.
It started in Georgia 2008. It doesn't have to end with Putin's death, he can have a "worthy" successor.

Accepting this kind of slow progress is enabling more of it. And more. And more.
Cheap gas often tastes like blood, doesn't it?

Absolutely agree. We can't have some countries acting like it's the 1800s and invading their neighbours because of paranoia or irredentism.



It's even worse when you start to consider the other commodities that's also true for. Coffee, cocoa, tropical fruits and sugar seem like the easiest examples to think of.

With sugar, I'm fine - white sugar in Poland is produced locally, from sugar beets.
With the rest - I wonder how much a "fair trade" mark is really worth.

About as much as the "Organic" label is worth.

I understand your concerns.
I understand the concerns of the Baltic States, also.
But I still think, after this profoundly humiliating experience of the Ukraine misadventure, he will have no appetite for further empire-building for the foreseeable future.
I think he will be lucky to politically survive this fiasco.

I am not suggesting in the least that NATO should let its guard down.
I understand the importance of supporting Ukraine.
Bullies only respect strength, after all.

pootin's military machine is hurting, bad:
*He has lost at least 12 generals through being killed in battle or through forced resignation.
*He is begging his historic enemy, China, for military and economic help.
*The corruption in the Russian military complex has produced an ineffective fighting machine.
*His best troops have been committed to this war and yet it has been a failure, whatever the final outcome.
*Its officers haven't been paid for months.
*Its conscripts are abandoning vehicles.
*Morale is extremely low.
*Sanction have eaten into his ability to finance his war.
*It will take him decades to rebuild his forces.

Even if pootin was truly insane, he doesn't have the means to regain his imagined Greater Empire.
Unless Russia itself is attacked, the nuclear option is off the table, imo.
At the end of the war, Hitler was pushing "ghost" divisions around the map.
How did that work out?