Seeking some advice on people's names?

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26 Mar 2022, 2:31 pm

I don't know much English. My writing is in Chinese. My knowledge of European culture basically comes from wikis, video games and novels.
I write about ancient European fantasy themes.
A famous accident in Chinese-related writing is that the author named two people with two names that looked completely different in Chinese, but in fact the two were the result of the same name being translated into Chinese from different languages .
Another concern I have is this: I don't want the names or images of mythological sources I'm citing to look the same in the English world as "Monkey King" in the Chinese world - too much child-oriented pop culture.

If there is no accident, my readers will only come from the Chinese world. Trying to get it right at this point is probably my compulsion.
The following questions are mainly for people from or familiar with Europe who use English as their first language. Comments from others are also welcome.

The reference site I'm currently using is "behindthename".
The first set of questions are:
I'm not sure about the authority of this site. Are there better alternatives?
The second set of questions are:
This site is less supportive of Nordic/Slavic/Islamic origin content. Are there any special sites on this content?

The third set of questions are:
What is the style of the following names in the intuition of people in the English-speaking world?
Fafnir/Shaitan/Rebis
Adam (woman)
biblical source names

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Spunge42
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26 Mar 2022, 9:38 pm

Hi the themes of your writing sound interesting. Would love to read some when you're finished.

The only help I can offer is on some of the biblical names and their meanings or origins. English is my first language but I have experience with Hebrew.

And honestly I understand the struggle. A lot Bible versus I've read in English are atrocious translations of Hebrew, which totally changes the meaning. So I completely respect your desire to make sure you get stuff correct.

Best of luck on your writing.

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27 Mar 2022, 7:14 am

Spunge42 wrote:

Hi the themes of your writing sound interesting. Would love to read some when you're finished.

Thank you.
I wouldn't make it my main career. Progress will be slow.
I am good at shaping vague vocabulary and special rhythm in Chinese. I would doubt that the content can be fully represented without the high-priced translation.
If you can accept the result of the software translation, I will provide it when it is finished.

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mohsart
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28 Mar 2022, 4:22 am

Not sure what you're asking for, but Fafnir is Norse if that helps https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fafnir

/Mats

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28 Mar 2022, 4:27 am

mohsart wrote:

Not sure what you're asking for, but Fafnir is Norse if that helps https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fafnir

/Mats

I know where it comes from. Its backstory is exactly why I picked it up.
But I wonder if people in the western world can perceive it without searching. So I want to ask about "first impressions".
Maybe this is an odd request. Because I have no clue as to how the various languages in Europe interact.

An extreme example: If a person has never heard of "Adam," the episode I made Adam a woman doesn't seem to him anything special.

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mohsart
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28 Mar 2022, 10:10 am

SkinnedWolf wrote:

I have no clue as to how the various languages in Europe interact.

Still not clear for me what you're asking for, but as for European languages there are 5 language families that shares little between them, both when it comes to vocabulary and grammar:
Slavic, eg Russian, Polish, Ukrainian.
Graeco-Phrygian, eg Greek.
Germanic, eg Swedish, German, Icelandic. Also English, but English has many Romance ingredients as well.
Romance, eg French, Italian, Spanish.
Finno-Ugric, eg Hungarian, Finnish.

Within the language families, it is often possible to understand a bit of other languages.
For example I don't know any Dutch, but being Swedish I can read it and understand quite a bit.
I know a bit of French which makes it possible for me to read Italian and understand a bit of it.

But I cannot understand Finnish, Russian, or Greek at all.

/Mats

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28 Mar 2022, 10:13 am

mohsart wrote:

SkinnedWolf wrote:

I have no clue as to how the various languages in Europe interact.

grateful!
This is very important information. This helps me to systematically categorize the various pieces of information I collect once.

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mohsart
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28 Mar 2022, 11:34 am

I forgot Basque which is it's own laguage family.

/Mats

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28 Mar 2022, 11:46 am

SkinnedWolf wrote:

mohsart wrote:

Not sure what you're asking for, but Fafnir is Norse if that helps https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fafnir

/Mats

Adam is a masculine name only in my experience, so that name would stand out if it's a female character.

Shaitan sounds like a variation on Satan.

Also, Finno-Ugric languages are not related to the Indo-European languages that dominate Europe, they're unrelated just like Basque.

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28 Mar 2022, 11:55 am

funeralxempire wrote:

Shaitan sounds like a variation on Satan.

Yes. This is a variant of Satan in Islam.
I'm thinking about how to make a feminine version of the word to name a demon disguised as an exotic lady.

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kitesandtrainsandcats
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28 Mar 2022, 12:28 pm

Though not a question directly asked, and since it wasn't, I do not know whether these points are already in your knowledge base or not, so I'll offer it anyway.

In English there are names which can be and have been used for both boys, males, and girls, females.
Probably the most direct thing to do is search for gender-neutral, or unisex, baby names.
Baby name websites seem to be a big thing here in the English speaking world.

And in the English speaking world there are a number of names which have a masculine version, and a feminine version, and also have a short form which is the same for both. Am not sure how many of those would fit in your story setting, but it may be a thing worth noting.
For instance;
Patrick, male, and Patricia, female, can both be called Pat.
Christopher, male, and Christine, female, can both be called Chris.

For a sample, here is a page with a name list which covers both the above points, https://usefulenglish.ru/vocabulary/unisex-names

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28 Mar 2022, 12:35 pm

kitesandtrainsandcats wrote:

Though not a question directly asked, and since it wasn't, I do not know whether these points are already in your knowledge base or not, so I'll offer it anyway.

In English there are names which can be and have been used for both boys, males, and girls, females.
Probably the most direct thing to do is search for gender-neutral, or unisex, baby names.
Baby name websites seem to be a big thing here in the English speaking world.

And in the English speaking world there are a number of names which have a masculine version, and a feminine version, and also have a short form which is the same for both. Am not sure how many of those would fit in your story setting, but it may be a thing worth noting.
For instance;
Patrick, male, and Patricia, female, can both be called Pat.
Christopher, male, and Christine, female, can both be called Chris.

For a sample, here is a page with a name list which covers both the above points, https://usefulenglish.ru/vocabulary/unisex-names

Excellent!
I really can't grasp the relationship between abbreviations and full names.
I will add it to my list.

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Cover your eyes, if you like. It will serve no purpose.

You might expect to be able to crush them in your hand, into wolf-bone fragments.

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kitesandtrainsandcats
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28 Mar 2022, 12:39 pm

While the topic is names, specifically English language names, and story settings, this bit of trivia might be fun to know.
Article covers race as well as names.
Article is by a published author I followed on Tumblr.

Quote:

It’s referred to as the “Tiffany problem,” and it’s when somebody writing historical fiction does something that is well-researched and accurate, but the reader doesn’t buy it because of their perception of the past.

https://medium.com/swlh/the-tiffany-pro ... 3b86522627

Quote:

The phrase “the Tiffany problem” comes from the name Tiffanie or Tiffania, commonly given to girls born on or close to the feast of the Epiphany.

The name dates back to the 12th century. But if a historical fiction or fantasy writer uses it, a reader is likely to insist that that can’t possibly true. We associate Tiffany with diamonds, an Audrey Hepburn movie, and, well. It’s a modern name.

Quote:

When it Becomes a Real Problem

So, I’m going to reach to media for this example because of the (rather charming, not) individual who publicly informed me, in a panel I was on about quality of representation in media that Doctor Who was “too woke” to have “all those Black and Asian people” in Victorian London.

The scene she was complaining about is a scene on the London docklands in the 19th century in which a large proportion of the extras playing longshoremen were south Asian/Desi.

And she’s not the first to complain about it.

Because, thanks to the media, we have a perception that the European past is white.

When this first came up, I did some research and found out:

The BBC was correct. This was an example of the Tiffany problem.

Quote:

Getting Around the Tiffany Problem

So, as authors, how do we avoid the Tiffany Problem? Sometimes, like with names, we can just work around it. Accept that this is something the reader won’t buy.

But we also may feel we have a responsibility to be accurate about things ...

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mohsart
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28 Mar 2022, 12:42 pm

mohsart wrote:

I forgot Basque which is it's own laguage family.

I also somehow forgot about the Celtic language family. (Irish, Welch, Breton etc)

/Mats

kitesandtrainsandcats
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28 Mar 2022, 12:45 pm

Welcome!

SkinnedWolf wrote:

I really can't grasp the relationship between abbreviations and full names.

That's okay.
That understanding might develop with the passage of time.
And you already know far more about English language names than I know about Chinese language names.

Not grasping the relationship between full names and abbreviated names is a thing I use in a sci-fi, science-fantasy, story I sometimes work on writing. The culture of my primary characters does it and the neighboring culture does not.

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kitesandtrainsandcats
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28 Mar 2022, 12:52 pm

mohsart wrote:

I forgot Basque which is it's own laguage family.

I also somehow forgot about the Celtic language family. (Irish, Welch, Breton etc)
/Mats

Oh, that brings to mind a female name in England I meant to go look up.
A couple different UK canal boaters I follow on YouTube have mentioned the female name Tamzin.

So, off to look it up ...

Hmm, interesting, appears to have originated with Celts in Cornwall and somehow be associated with Biblical name Thomas.
Also has several spelling variations,
https://ohbabynames.com/all-baby-names/tamzin/

Quote:

Tamzin is an alternate spelling of Tamsin (Tamsyn, Tamsen, Tamzen) which developed among the Brythonic Celts in Cornwall (England) as a contracted form of Thomasina. Thomasina, in turn, is the medieval female form of the popular masculine name Thomas

and
https://www.babynames.co.uk/names/tamzin/

Quote:

Tamzin is the feminine equivalent of the masculine Thomas which comes from an Aramaic Nickname for a twin, given by Jesus to the Apostle Judas to avoid confusion with Judas Iscariot. Tamzin would therefore be a fitting name for a little girl who has a twin. Tamzin Merchant is an English actress.

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Seeking some advice on people's names?