China threatens U.S. over possible Taiwan visit

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SkinnedWolf
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09 Apr 2022, 7:04 am

The KMT will stick to its claims to the mainland. So they will try to "unify", although the exact method needs to be "further discussed".
But the DPP doesn't. They rely on "independence" for support.

By the way:
the aborigines are the vote base of the KMT. The relationship between the aborigines and the DPP is not very "harmonious".


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09 Apr 2022, 6:08 pm

Pepe wrote:
cyberdad wrote:
SkinnedWolf wrote:
cyberdad wrote:
Is Taiwan really that important? Let China have it.

It is important that China does not own Taiwan if it is to limit China's development.
It is important to have a military base in Taiwan if a military strike against China is to be carried out.

Personal opinion:
It is important to maintain neither "independence" nor "unification" if Taiwan wants to develop better.

For countries not involved in the above activities. Unimportant.


Surely what happened to Hong Kong and Macao will happen in Taiwan? Pro-China politicians will eventually emerge in Taiwan and China will simply walk into the country.


Shades of Austria! 8O


It is not.

Taiwan's seperateness is the result of Mao's incomplete victory in a civil war. Taiwan was part of Imperial China, and part of the Republic of China under Chang Kai Chek.

It would be as if Jefferson Davis, and Robert E. Lee, had fled to Florida after Lincoln had conquered the rest of the 13 states of the Southern Confederacy, and had somehow kept Union forces out of Florida. And if Florida were still operating as a seperate country today. Washington would view Florida as a "renegage state/province". Florida would view itself as an Independent country, and as the last remnant of the Confederacy.

Austria and Germany were never united with each other in modern times (except for those few years under Hitler). And even when they were 'united' as part of the Holy Roman Empire - the Holy Roman Empire was not a united political entity anyway. But a collection of microstates. So in that period Germany and Austria were not even unified within themselves as nations, much less united with each other.



cyberdad
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09 Apr 2022, 6:52 pm

naturalplastic wrote:
Pepe wrote:
cyberdad wrote:
SkinnedWolf wrote:
cyberdad wrote:
Is Taiwan really that important? Let China have it.

It is important that China does not own Taiwan if it is to limit China's development.
It is important to have a military base in Taiwan if a military strike against China is to be carried out.

Personal opinion:
It is important to maintain neither "independence" nor "unification" if Taiwan wants to develop better.

For countries not involved in the above activities. Unimportant.


Surely what happened to Hong Kong and Macao will happen in Taiwan? Pro-China politicians will eventually emerge in Taiwan and China will simply walk into the country.


Shades of Austria! 8O


It is not.

Taiwan's seperateness is the result of Mao's incomplete victory in a civil war. Taiwan was part of Imperial China, and part of the Republic of China under Chang Kai Chek.

It would be as if Jefferson Davis, and Robert E. Lee, had fled to Florida after Lincoln had conquered the rest of the 13 states of the Southern Confederacy, and had somehow kept Union forces out of Florida. And if Florida were still operating as a seperate country today. Washington would view Florida as a "renegage state/province". Florida would view itself as an Independent country, and as the last remnant of the Confederacy.

Austria and Germany were never united with each other in modern times (except for those few years under Hitler). And even when they were 'united' as part of the Holy Roman Empire - the Holy Roman Empire was not a united political entity anyway. But a collection of microstates. So in that period Germany and Austria were not even unified within themselves as nations, much less united with each other.


I actually think Pepe mean't in terms of the "Anschluss" where Hitler propped up pro-German leaders in Austria prior to temporarily unifying Austria under the Nazi reich. My memory is a little fuzzy though since I can't remember whether it was Hitler who propped them up or whether the leadership in Austria made overtures to their lost son Adolph?

In any case China has plenty of time to meddle in Taiwanese politics like they did in Hong Kong.



cyberdad
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09 Apr 2022, 6:57 pm

SkinnedWolf wrote:
By the way:
the aborigines are the vote base of the KMT. The relationship between the aborigines and the DPP is not very "harmonious".


The aboriginal population of taiwan and Japan are largely absorbed into wider Chinese and Japanese culture. They are also no longer "ethnically" distinct.

In India, Nepal and Bhutan there are many millions of east Indians who are Burmo-Tibetan who are ethnically closer to China than to India. Interestingly most of these people are either christian, animist or buddhist (although Nepal many are hindu). They also look to east asia for cultural connections rather than India. For example Bollywood isn't popular at all among young east Indians, instead they are attracted to the "karaoke" and "k-pop" culture instead.



SkinnedWolf
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09 Apr 2022, 7:16 pm

cyberdad wrote:
The aboriginal population of taiwan and Japan are largely absorbed into wider Chinese and Japanese culture. They are also no longer "ethnically" distinct.

Just racial proximity.
The 19th century Qing governments and the Han had some pretty horrific incidents in their aggression against Taiwanese aborigines. This was much later than the misfortune of the Native Americans - the 15th century.
https://zh.wikipedia.org/zh/%E7%95%AA%E8%86%8F
Quote:
In the eighteenth year of Emperor Guangxu of the Qing Dynasty (1892), when Hu Chuan was an official in Taiwan, he discovered that there were people selling human flesh in Puli. When the local Han people saw the aborigines, they scrambled to kill them. . They also fry the bones of the aborigines to make paste, which is called "barbarian paste", and the official prohibition is invalid.

Quote:
In 1903, Pastor Zeng Chiheng recorded in the "Pu Society News" of the "Taiwan Church Gazette" that he was going to worship in the Puli Society and found the body of a barbarian. He heard the locals say that "the heart of a barbarian" can be used as medicine. For the treatment of heart-qi disease, the "barbarian gall" worth 30 wen is used to treat knife wounds and gunshot wounds. The leg bones of the "fanwu wrist" can be used to treat foot wind. The body of a barbarian is useful, but only the large intestine, the small intestine, and the hair are useless. Therefore, killing a barbarian is better than hunting a few deer; hunting a barbarian is better than farming for a year.

However, the aborigines at that time also hunted the Han.

cyberdad wrote:
In India, Nepal and Bhutan there are many millions of east Indians who are Burmo-Tibetan who are ethnically closer to China than to India.

I have heard of them.
Throw them in the Chinese and I can't identify them.


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cyberdad
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09 Apr 2022, 7:32 pm

SkinnedWolf wrote:
I have heard of them.
Throw them in the Chinese and I can't identify them.


During the time of the British colonial administration, Burma was also infact part of the Indian colonies. Over many centuries long before the British Chinese trading colonies/merchants successfully took over control of the trade/economies of much of south-east Asia. Once these lands were part of sea trade that was originally controlled by south India.

Other examples apart from Burma is Cambodia and Thailand and Malaya which were once hindu kingdoms.

Over time the original Indian colonists in these lands became absorbed to the point their presence is not even remembered. Getting back to Burma, the people are now ferociously anti-Indian and very pro-China. But once upon a time the situation was very different.



ezbzbfcg2
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09 Apr 2022, 8:05 pm

naturalplastic wrote:
It would be as if Jefferson Davis, and Robert E. Lee, had fled to Florida after Lincoln had conquered the rest of the 13 states of the Southern Confederacy, and had somehow kept Union forces out of Florida. And if Florida were still operating as a seperate country today. Washington would view Florida as a "renegage state/province". Florida would view itself as an Independent country, and as the last remnant of the Confederacy.


I think this is a poor example.

I'd say it's more like if the Confederacy won its independence. But then it laid claim to "borderline" states that never actually seceded from the Union. An independent South claiming that Maryland and Missouri should also be "reunified" with them because they were also slave states with many Confederate sympathizers (even though those states remained within the Union) and constantly threatening to invade them because those states are allegedly "part" of a Confederacy they never willingly joined.



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09 Apr 2022, 10:29 pm

cyberdad wrote:

I actually think Pepe mean't in terms of the "Anschluss" where Hitler propped up pro-German leaders in Austria prior to temporarily unifying Austria under the Nazi reich.


Indeed. 8)


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