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funeralxempire
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16 Apr 2022, 12:08 pm

ToughDiamond wrote:
funeralxempire wrote:
I don't think they're doing it with the intention of mocking, it's much more about many Christians viewing Christianity as the legitimate successor to Judaism. Ironically, many of those same Christians get pretty peeved about Mormons and the notion that Christianity received updates or references to Allah being the God of Abraham.

I suppose the underlying problem is that so many religions have a strong notion that their ideology is the only correct one, which I guess usually leads to some kind of a desire to oppose all the others, and a sense of being particularly offended and undermined when a different group displays an altered form of "their" ritual. Though if only they'd relax and take a good look, they'd see that there's no actual threat at all, except to totalitarianism.


I'd suggest the feeling is driven by something deeper than religion and relates more broadly to identity, at least based on how common analogous reactions are in other fields besides just religion.

All sorts of outsider subcultures display similar reactions when 'what's theirs' is taken by people they don't consider one of them.


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naturalplastic
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16 Apr 2022, 12:21 pm

How is a "Christian seder" different from White folks naming a pro football team "The Washington Redskins"?

Or are they both ok, or are neither ok?



funeralxempire
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16 Apr 2022, 12:28 pm

naturalplastic wrote:
How is a "Christian seder" different from White folks naming a pro football team "The Washington Redskins"?

Or are they both ok, or are neither ok?


I'd suggest the offence some feel is equally understandable.

Okay or not is much more a question of empathy for those who feel offence. The team's name hits closer to home for me but both are things I don't feel the state's intervention would be reasonable. Does that mean I think it's okay, or just that I also don't think the state should be involved in every matter?

It's easier to exert pressure against a single entity than many individuals though. A sports team can be boycotted in many ways, from people refusing to attend or watch their games, refusing to buy merch, companies refusing to produce or distribute merch, etc. It would be very difficult for those bothered by the notion of Christian seders to do much more than publicize how they feel and hope appealing to empathy results in people reconsidering their perspectives.


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Barchan
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28 Apr 2022, 5:03 pm

Well-intentioned Christians buying up all the halal/kosher foods (which are expensive and often hard to get) and leaving none for the religious minorities who actually need that stuff, these people are the reason why I have to pay $8 a pound for ground lamb :x



naturalplastic
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28 Apr 2022, 7:28 pm

The fad has NOT caught on like that yet. Christians buying kosher/halal meat is too rare to drive up the price. The price is high precisely because it is a specialty item in the West.



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28 Apr 2022, 7:30 pm

Barchan wrote:
Well-intentioned Christians buying up all the halal/kosher foods (which are expensive and often hard to get) and leaving none for the religious minorities who actually need that stuff, these people are the reason why I have to pay $8 a pound for ground lamb.
That would make sense if the high prices only occurred during the time leading up to Paschal or Ramadan, but it does not count for high prices for the same items during the rest of the year.



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29 Apr 2022, 5:17 pm

Three words: Freedom Of Religion.
If Christians want to celebrate a Seder, let 'em. There would only be a problem if Jews were told they couldn't conduct their own.


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Barchan
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29 Apr 2022, 11:39 pm

Kraichgauer wrote:
Three words: Freedom Of Religion.
If Christians want to celebrate a Seder, let 'em


And once again we see the dominant privileged group taking up as much space as possible, pushing minorities out of the way, and calling it "freedom."



Kraichgauer
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30 Apr 2022, 2:34 am

Barchan wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
Three words: Freedom Of Religion.
If Christians want to celebrate a Seder, let 'em


And once again we see the dominant privileged group taking up as much space as possible, pushing minorities out of the way, and calling it "freedom."


Who's being pushed out of the way? Judaism and Christianity have common roots, so what's wrong with those roots being remembered?
By the way, ask anybody on WP, and they'll confirm I'm about the most liberal person here.


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Fnord
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30 Apr 2022, 10:25 am

Barchan wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
Three words: Freedom Of Religion.  If Christians want to celebrate a Seder, let 'em
And once again we see the dominant privileged group taking up as much space as possible, pushing minorities out of the way, and calling it "freedom."
Please explain how Christians celebrating Seder pushes minorities out of the way.

Here is something else to ponder: Wrapping one's self in bitter self-righteousness and then complaining about being excluded is akin to installing a shark-filled moat around one's domicile and then complaining that no-one ever visits.



iggyshiggy
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30 Apr 2022, 10:30 am

i actually think it's pretty cool when christians get into old testament traditions, but I kind of feel like if you're going to do it, do it right... which means they should be eating dry crackers like the rest of us lol. Something about the cross shaped challah seems like a pointed affront, but it's also just the least of my worries. let them have their fun, i guess?



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30 Apr 2022, 10:55 am

iggyshiggy wrote:
i actually think it's pretty cool when christians get into old testament traditions, but I kind of feel like if you're going to do it, do it right... which means they should be eating dry cr****rs like the rest of us lol. Something about the cross shaped challah seems like a pointed affront, but it's also just the least of my worries. let them have their fun, i guess?
The last Seder I attended was done proper, with a Rabbi leading and every element according to Jewish tradition.  The Haggadah was printed in English, Hebrew in Hebrew letters, and a phonetic pronunciation of the Hebrew in English letters.  It was an enlightening experience, and we even had some fun.

A long as other people's religious traditions are treated with respect.  Never eating in front of my Muslim coworkers during Ramadan, never bringing trefe or haram foods into the office, et cetera.



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30 Apr 2022, 7:31 pm

I don't have an answer to the question of whether this is cultural appropriation, since I'm not Jewish myself and would tend to defer to those who think they're being appropriated. I don't think it's my place to say. These things are highly subjective and highly sensitive matters.

I mainly just wanted to stop by and say this made me laugh out loud :lol: :

naturalplastic wrote:
Maybe the Pope should stop wearing that white yamaka.


FWIW, I think it's called a zucchetto, but don't quote me on that.



funeralxempire
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01 May 2022, 3:44 pm

ToughDiamond wrote:
funeralxempire wrote:
I don't think they're doing it with the intention of mocking, it's much more about many Christians viewing Christianity as the legitimate successor to Judaism. Ironically, many of those same Christians get pretty peeved about Mormons and the notion that Christianity received updates or references to Allah being the God of Abraham.

I suppose the underlying problem is that so many religions have a strong notion that their ideology is the only correct one, which I guess usually leads to some kind of a desire to oppose all the others, and a sense of being particularly offended and undermined when a different group displays an altered form of "their" ritual. Though if only they'd relax and take a good look, they'd see that there's no actual threat at all, except to totalitarianism.


I'd agree with that. Monotheistic religions seem especially prone to that issue.


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