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Fenn
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22 May 2022, 9:13 am

naturalplastic wrote:
Fenn wrote:
Where’s the library at?

At the corner of 2nd and Main

You just have to start using your Uncle Ned.

( 88 very British phrases that will confuse anybody who didn't grow up in the UK )


My "Uncle Ned"?

I will have to ponder that over a couple of Britneys.


Uncle Ned

(British slang)
Noun. 1. The head. Rhyming slang.

https://eng.ichacha.net/mee/uncle%20ned.html


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Last edited by Fenn on 22 May 2022, 9:14 am, edited 1 time in total.

temp1234
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22 May 2022, 9:14 am

You can change the position of the preposition if you don't like it to be at the end of a sentence.

Examples:
"For what are you looking?" instead of "What are you looking for?"
"I don't know about what you are talking." instead of "I don't know what you are talking about."



TwilightPrincess
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22 May 2022, 9:17 am

temp1234 wrote:
You can change the position of the preposition if you don't like it to be at the end of a sentence.

Examples:
"For what are you looking?" instead of "What are you looking for?"
"I don't know about what you are talking." instead of "I don't know what you are talking about."


Those examples don’t feel at all natural, at least they don’t where I live.

In French and Spanish, they would use both of those sentence structures because it is absolutely incorrect to end a sentence or question with a preposition.


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kraftiekortie
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22 May 2022, 9:20 am

To change the location of the preposition like that is unnatural in everyday English linguistics. It’s awkward.



IsabellaLinton
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22 May 2022, 9:21 am

temp1234 wrote:

The word "where" is considered as an adverb and it doesn't require a preposition "at". This sentence is equivalent to saying, "The library is at there", which is bad because "there" is an adverb. "Where is the library?" is correct. Having a preposition at the end of a sentence itself is not necessarily grammatically incorrect.



This is correct. The library isn't AT anywhere. It just is.


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TwilightPrincess
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22 May 2022, 9:26 am

Sometimes when I’m asking someone a question and I’m nervous, as I often would be in this context, I’ll say something equally cringey.

People can know better but make mistakes just the same.


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kraftiekortie
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22 May 2022, 9:27 am

“at” is redundant in that sentence.



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22 May 2022, 9:32 am

kraftiekortie wrote:
“at” is redundant in that sentence.


Sometimes redundancy is good for emphasis but not for this particular situation.


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TwilightPrincess
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22 May 2022, 9:34 am

“What can I do you for?”

Sorry. I just needed to get that off my chest.


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temp1234
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22 May 2022, 9:36 am

Twilightprincess wrote:
Those examples don’t feel at all natural, at least they don’t where I live.

In French and Spanish, they would use both of those sentence structures because it is absolutely incorrect to end a sentence or question with a preposition.

kraftiekortie wrote:
To change the location of the preposition like that is unnatural in everyday English linguistics. It’s awkward.

I know. I was being a bit sarcastic because some people say you shouldn't end a sentence with a preposition. While my unnatural sentences are not grammatically wrong, people don't talk like that.



temp1234
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22 May 2022, 9:38 am

IsabellaLinton wrote:
temp1234 wrote:

The word "where" is considered as an adverb and it doesn't require a preposition "at". This sentence is equivalent to saying, "The library is at there", which is bad because "there" is an adverb. "Where is the library?" is correct. Having a preposition at the end of a sentence itself is not necessarily grammatically incorrect.



This is correct. The library isn't AT anywhere. It just is.

Thanks. Glad someone understands it.



kraftiekortie
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22 May 2022, 9:45 am

Lots of excellent grammarians on here. I’m a tier below them :)



IsabellaLinton
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22 May 2022, 9:54 am

I've only heard people end questions with "at" in the southern US states.
Usually, it's TV characters being stereotyped.

Speaking of which, does anyone know where my phone is at? :wink:


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kraftiekortie
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22 May 2022, 9:57 am

Can you call it? Sometimes, that works.



naturalplastic
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22 May 2022, 10:19 am

Fenn wrote:
naturalplastic wrote:
Fenn wrote:
Where’s the library at?

At the corner of 2nd and Main

You just have to start using your Uncle Ned.

( 88 very British phrases that will confuse anybody who didn't grow up in the UK )


My "Uncle Ned"?

I will have to ponder that over a couple of Britneys.


Uncle Ned

(British slang)
Noun. 1. The head. Rhyming slang.

https://eng.ichacha.net/mee/uncle%20ned.html


Yeah. I figured that. Thats why I am drinking "a couple of Britneys". ( Britney Spears ...rhymes with beers).



Fenn
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22 May 2022, 10:23 am

I agree that it is an example of regional English. I have heard it used. Usually Southern USA or mid-west. I think the usage might have originated with literal translation from other languages where it was needed (or intended) to distinguish “where as location” from “where as destination” (where are you going to) and “where as origin” (where are you from). Adding “at” explicitly distinguishes “where at” (location) from “where to” (destination) and “where from” (origin). Current usage is by local convention - people say what they hear. I have read that some word usage and word order in African American English dialects would be the same in some original African languages. The French language influence is common in some Southern states. Modern times tend to flatten out regional accents and usage because of tv and movies (and internet). It is also a class distinction - like in My Fair Lady.

My mother was an English teacher.
I usually at least KNOW the rule.

But it is helpful to note that most language “rules” followed common usage (at least of SOME segment of the population) and THEN they were taught in schools. If a large enough group starts using new rules IN USAGE the rules eventually change.


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