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Do you approve of Common Core?
 Yes, Absolutely! 8%  8%  [ 1 ]
 Yes, Mostly. 31%  31%  [ 4 ]
 Don't Care or Undecided. 23%  23%  [ 3 ]
 No, Mostly. 15%  15%  [ 2 ]
 No, Absolutely! 23%  23%  [ 3 ]
Total votes : 13

Fnord
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24 Jun 2022, 8:54 am

In the 1990s, a movement began in the U.S. to establish national educational standards for students across the country.

• Outlining what students were expected to know and do at each grade level.

• Implementing ways to find out if they were meeting those standards.

In 2010, The Common Core State Standards Initiative, also known as simply Common Core, was established is an educational initiative from 2010 that:

• Details what K–12 students throughout the United States should know in English language arts and mathematics at the conclusion of each school grade.

• Seeks to establish consistent educational standards across the states.

• Ensure that students graduating from high school are prepared to enter credit-bearing courses at two- or four-year college programs or to enter the workforce.

Since 2010, 41 states and the District of Columbia have been members of the Common Core State Standards Initiative: Alabama, Oklahoma, Texas, Virginia, Alaska, Nebraska, Indiana and South Carolina did not adopt it -- all "Red" states controlled by the Far Right.

Source:
 This Wikipedia Article 

For the Poll: You may choose only one option, but you may change your choice at any time.

For the Discussion: What is it about standardized education that prepares people for college (and life in general) that makes conservatives so dead-set against it?  Please keep your answers civil, and cite your sources (No YouTube videos, please).



nick007
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24 Jun 2022, 12:44 pm

I'll get to the discussion you want after this paragraph Fnord. I like the idea of having universal standards for education but I have problems with it's implementation. A bit of my family members on my mom's side were teachers(including my mom) & I've heard about how the teachers are kinda forced to teach students to pass the tests instead of focusing on student's overall education. Plus I have learning disabilities & know 1st hand that NOT all students are capable of learning the same material the same exact way. No matter how good a teacher is, some students just can not grasp certain things & punishing the schools & teachers when they are trying their best is not right.

As for as conservatives being against standardized testing, I have no sources but I do have a theory. The conservatives in power tend to have a bit of money & can afford to send their kids to prestigious schools that cost a lot. It seems like the people who's families are rich can afford to buy an education. I thus theorize that the conservatives in power are against standardized testing because they want to buy an education instead of having to do the real work to actually earn it.


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Fnord
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24 Jun 2022, 3:19 pm

nick007 wrote:
. . . I thus theorize that the conservatives in power are against standardized testing because they want to buy an education instead of having to do the real work to actually earn it.
And while those who bought their diplomas are making millions each year off the profits of their businesses, they are hiring "quants" (at hourly wages) who earned their degrees through Common Core to "massage the numbers" until they fit projections to please the stockholders.



kraftiekortie
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24 Jun 2022, 3:24 pm

Theoretically, it seems like a good idea.

Then again, Communism, in theory, seems like a good idea, too.

I believe we should implement some ideas of "progressive education." But I also believe that classrooms themselves have to be more orderly, so kids who want to learn can learn.



Fnord
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24 Jun 2022, 3:26 pm

kraftiekortie wrote:
Theoretically, it seems like a good idea.  Then again, Communism, in theory, seems like a good idea, too.
Why are you equating the standards and practices of Common Core with Communism?



r00tb33r
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24 Jun 2022, 3:33 pm

Decomposing numbers is a useful mental skill, but it's about the individual convenience of the user. There is no wrong way that produces the correct answer.

Image

I had a similar situation in a college physics course where the professor was taking points off my work for not setting up the solutions to specific cases his way. I was producing the algebraic equivalents derived directly from the fundamental equations. His way required memorization of specific cases, and solution demonstrate ability to memorize. My way demonstrates the actual understanding of the subject.



Fnord
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24 Jun 2022, 3:51 pm

↑ But was he teaching IAW "Common Core"?



r00tb33r
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24 Jun 2022, 3:52 pm

Fnord wrote:
↑ But was he teaching IAW "Common Core"?

No, but similar problem with the approach.

Clearly Common Core has some good ideas but it's implementation is untenable.



Last edited by r00tb33r on 24 Jun 2022, 3:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Fnord
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24 Jun 2022, 3:54 pm

r00tb33r wrote:
Fnord wrote:
↑ But was he teaching IAW "Common Core"?
No, but similar problem with the approach.
Saying Common Core and his method are similar is like saying fried chicken and fried moccasins are similar.



kraftiekortie
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24 Jun 2022, 4:02 pm

I wasn't "equating Common Core with Communism."

I was merely pointing out that both might be said to be utopian ideas----great in theory, but not so great in practice.



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24 Jun 2022, 4:35 pm

kraftiekortie wrote:
I wasn't "equating Common Core with Communism."

I was merely pointing out that both might be said to be utopian ideas----great in theory, but not so great in practice.


In what way(s) is it not great in practice? Communism is obviously bad in practice.

I think there are problems and it will continue to need some tweaking, but it’s better than what we were doing before.

Common Core standards are especially important in the realm of science and mathematics. I’m wondering if having to follow Core science standards could be a deterrent in some states.

I read an interesting article on this (and religiosity) a while back but now I can’t find it.


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Fnord
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24 Jun 2022, 4:41 pm

The alternative to imposing meaningful standards for graduation on all students would be to graduate every student for simply attending school without ever learning anything -- the archetypical "Diploma Mill".



nick007
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24 Jun 2022, 4:53 pm

r00tb33r wrote:
Decomposing numbers is a useful mental skill, but it's about the individual convenience of the user. There is no wrong way that produces the correct answer.

https://i1.wp.com/www.mercurynews.com/w ... 99px&ssl=1

I had a similar situation in a college physics course where the professor was taking points off my work for not setting up the solutions to specific cases his way. I was producing the algebraic equivalents derived directly from the fundamental equations. His way required memorization of specific cases, and solution demonstrate ability to memorize. My way demonstrates the actual understanding of the subject.
That's like how I liked Buisness Math but failed every single test in Alegbra 1(my teacher curved my report card grades to Ds so I passed). I'm horrible about remembering a lot of exact details like formulas, especially more complex 1s. Buisness Math was mostly word problems & I did the forumlas my way & it didn't matter how I got the answer as long as it was right. Plus Buisness Math was practical typical life things that most people deal with. Whereas Alegbra was equations that seemed like they were just random fomulas & numbers that I saw no use for memorizing.


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kraftiekortie
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24 Jun 2022, 6:23 pm

Now....I never said that we shouldn't have standards.....why would I say that?

I'm just saying that there's too much emphasis on "teaching to the standardized test," which is a problem with "Common Core."

I feel like Common Core is a good framework----but we should also provide the opportunity for flexibility. I've looked at Common Core requirements. They are excellent. But, as they are actually implemented----not so good.



Twilightprincess
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24 Jun 2022, 6:30 pm

kraftiekortie wrote:
Now....I never said that we shouldn't have standards.....why would I say that?

I'm just saying that there's too much emphasis on "teaching to the standardized test," which is a problem with "Common Core."

I feel like Common Core is a good framework----but we should also provide the opportunity for flexibility. I've looked at Common Core requirements. They are excellent. But, as they are actually implemented----not so good.


Are there specific indicators which demonstrate that states have fallen behind since they’ve implemented Common Core?


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kraftiekortie
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24 Jun 2022, 6:38 pm

It's more like certain AREAS have fallen behind. This is probably because of funding, not necessarily because of the Common Core, per se.

What I meant, mostly, is that teachers tend to teach to the standardized tests. I would probably do the same; it's easier that way. That's what I meant by "implementation."

There are students who would do poorly in standardized tests-----yet are actually very intelligent. Many successful people were only "average" or even "below average" in school. I did pretty well in high school, and even better in college. That didn't translate to extreme career success. I feel like there's an over-reliance on standardized test scores when it comes to assessing the potential of a student.



Last edited by kraftiekortie on 24 Jun 2022, 6:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.