Nonverbal learning disorder vs. AS?
Sedaka
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08 Aug 2007, 2:16 am
yeah im at an impass
im so on the fence with my symptoms that i literally cannot pick a side.
-female
-lefty (with no brain damage... i think)
-poor eye contact... interests/stims
-visual thinker (i scored off the charts on a lot of visual manipulation tasks for my IQ testing)... though i do find that i have a hard time seeing novel/non-concrete concepts in my head... and i often find myself giving up on trying to think through something and just wait until i gather more puzzle pieces before trying to think through it again... it's like listening to a foregin conversation, kinda
-cant remember number sequences for s**t
-prefer auditory learning.... i never took notes in college really... just doodles and listened... i rememeber the lectures though by looking at my pics
-have a discrepancy on many of my standardized test scores between math/verbal (not all times that ive done so, but more often than not)... i awlays do well in writing
-poor spatial skills... i get lost in many places.... driving is really bad... even in towns ive lived in for several yrs
-have issues in deciphering diagrams... was hard for my teaching assistanships... made me seem kinda dumb for quick answers to things in front of students... had hard time figuring out what they did on their graphs, if it wasnt the correct pic of what it should be
-my parents always said i threw tantrums while doing my math as a kid... though ive made it through college calc
-many of my teaching evals have described me as unique at explaining things... monotone voice... again with eye contact issues
-many of my friends say i interject in convoersations at wrong times... that i speak to loud sometimes
-im described as nonsequitar and people always are asking me where im coming from
there's many more... but i cant think
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Sedaka
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08 Aug 2007, 2:20 am
Anyway, if the above wasn't coherent, here's a summary: if you are left-handed, you are more likely to have white matter distributed more evenly in your brain (both hemispheres), or even mainly in your left hemisphere. So it's possible that NLD might affect both sides of your body equally, or even have a larger effect on your right side. Like I said, based on my test results, I might have some bilateral representation of function (and I have a strong family history of lefthandness), as NLD affects both sides of my body.
yeah but it's still statistically less frequent that you can be a lefty and NVLD.... which is why it's an oddity... though possible...
one of many reasons i kinda give up teasing them appart.
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Sedaka
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08 Aug 2007, 2:23 am
side note... im entering into a PhD program where i will be researching spatial learning and such... to help contribute to autism/NLVDs so i hope to become much more intimate with all this stuff... as i find myself absolutely consumed with all this
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08 Aug 2007, 2:26 am
im so on the fence with my symptoms that i literally cannot pick a side.
-female
-lefty (with no brain damage... i think)
-poor eye contact... interests/stims
-visual thinker (i scored off the charts on a lot of visual manipulation tasks for my IQ testing)... though i do find that i have a hard time seeing novel/non-concrete concepts in my head... and i often find myself giving up on trying to think through something and just wait until i gather more puzzle pieces before trying to think through it again... it's like listening to a foregin conversation, kinda
-cant remember number sequences for sh**
-prefer auditory learning.... i never took notes in college really... just doodles and listened... i rememeber the lectures though by looking at my pics
-have a discrepancy on many of my standardized test scores between math/verbal (not all times that ive done so, but more often than not)... i awlays do well in writing
-poor spatial skills... i get lost in many places.... driving is really bad... even in towns ive lived in for several yrs
-have issues in deciphering diagrams... was hard for my teaching assistanships... made me seem kinda dumb for quick answers to things in front of students... had hard time figuring out what they did on their graphs, if it wasnt the correct pic of what it should be
-my parents always said i threw tantrums while doing my math as a kid... though ive made it through college calc
-many of my teaching evals have described me as unique at explaining things... monotone voice... again with eye contact issues
-many of my friends say i interject in convoersations at wrong times... that i speak to loud sometimes
-im described as nonsequitar and people always are asking me where im coming from
there's many more... but i cant think
Have you considered getting formal neuropsychological testing? That might help to clarify some things. It can be confusing. Then of course, you might have NLD with AS features. I read an article one time that was a case study of a boy with "NLD with AS features." It is weird that you score so well on visual manipulation tasks, but then again, everyone is different. Most people with NLD have tons of trouble with math, but I got a 5 (the highest you can get) on the AP Calculus exam. So I wouldn't necessarily discount NLD because of that one thing. I actually did all right on a line judgment task and a block design task when I was tested- the only of my nonverbal scores in the normal range. Again, formal testing might be helpful to really suss out your different strengths and weaknesses. Make sure the person testing you actually knows something about NLD though- many people don't. As ignorant as a lot of people are about AS, it's nothing compared to how uncommon it is for people to know about NLD.
Sedaka
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08 Aug 2007, 2:26 am
to add to my list.... i am the only lefty i know of in my family.... and my parents said i actually started out right handed but switched later on... i forget how early... but early enough that i dont remember being right handed
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08 Aug 2007, 2:29 am
Wow, that's totally awesome! I've been racking my brain for the last year, trying to come up with some way to tie something related to NLD into my research, but I haven't come up with anything. I think I may try to take a couple of classes in the psych department though, one is on neuropsychologist testing, and the other on visual processing.
Sedaka
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08 Aug 2007, 2:29 am
ive had some informal meetings with an AS specialist in eugene, OR... mainly talking about childhood and ect... and while i did mention this kind of stuff (i came with this exact predicament) they said i should come in for further testing...
i just havent. still dunno if i want the official label.
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08 Aug 2007, 2:30 am
Anyway, if the above wasn't coherent, here's a summary: if you are left-handed, you are more likely to have white matter distributed more evenly in your brain (both hemispheres), or even mainly in your left hemisphere. So it's possible that NLD might affect both sides of your body equally, or even have a larger effect on your right side. Like I said, based on my test results, I might have some bilateral representation of function (and I have a strong family history of lefthandness), as NLD affects both sides of my body.
yeah but it's still statistically less frequent that you can be a lefty and NVLD.... which is why it's an oddity... though possible...
one of many reasons i kinda give up teasing them appart.
Yeah, that is true, although it still happens of course. One of SeriousGirl's kids is a lefty and has NLD. I don't know if she still posts on here, because I haven't seen anything by her in a month or two, but she might just be in another forum.
08 Aug 2007, 2:35 am
i just havent. still dunno if i want the official label.
Just because you have an official label though, doesn't mean anyone has to know. When I asked the person testing me if the report would go anywhere else, she said no. I think people would only find out if you applied for some kind of accommodations.
Sedaka
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Joined: 16 Jul 2006
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08 Aug 2007, 2:36 am
Wow, that's totally awesome! I've been racking my brain for the last year, trying to come up with some way to tie something related to NLD into my research, but I haven't come up with anything. I think I may try to take a couple of classes in the psych department though, one is on neuropsychologist testing, and the other on visual processing.
im gonna be putting rats/mice through all kinds of mazes and other behavior/spatial tests and then sampling their brains basically.
are you pyschology? there's lots of empirical neuroscientists with strong pysch backgrounds... wish i actually wish i had more of... all this just kinda hit me about a year ago... when i started working in a neuroscience lab (though not in the field...) and came acorss a magical articel on AS out in the lounge... my own inquiries lead me to the NLVDs
you could look at MRI stuff and active decision making tasks... i know some labs get into that
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Sedaka
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08 Aug 2007, 2:37 am
yeah ive had lots of insighful threads with her on this too.
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Sedaka
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08 Aug 2007, 2:39 am
i just havent. still dunno if i want the official label.
Just because you have an official label though, doesn't mean anyone has to know. When I asked the person testing me if the report would go anywhere else, she said no. I think people would only find out if you applied for some kind of accommodations.
i also dont think my current insurance will cover this kind of thing.... nor do i have money or much time
though i totally am gonna get an MRI of my brain once i get into this program!
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08 Aug 2007, 2:42 am
Are those with aspergers typically (or ever) animated and charismatic when discussing an interest? I don't really have a lot of people I can compare myself to, besides maybe my little cousin. He's either NLD or AS (thinking AS) and reminds both myself and my parents of me as a child.
What about having a lot of intuition about other people or feeling emotions very deeply?
Those are the big things that tip me off I might more likely have NLD but I'm aware I may not fully understand the way either NLD or AS manifest.
Sedaka
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08 Aug 2007, 2:51 am
What about having a lot of intuition about other people or feeling emotions very deeply?
Those are the big things that tip me off I might more likely have NLD but I'm aware I may not fully understand the way either NLD or AS manifest.
yeah AS people do tend to light up over their interests.... ive been told i do this (im not DXed though)
i like to think i recognize emotions/facial expressions ect in other people (i dont feel i dont reconize facial expressions... though i have troub le remembering faces/names)... but not being able to recongize emotions/facial expressions in others is associated with AS... that and any form of nonverbal communication (another reason these two are so intertwined)
and while thinking As people have limited emotions is a prominent theory... i dont think you'll find much love (ironically????) for that theory here on this forum... i think it's BS, personally
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08 Aug 2007, 3:06 am
Sedaka,
Faces and names are difficult for me too. Usually when I'm interacting with other people I'll avoid addressing them by their name as much as possible. But I also have difficulty with street names and dates, phone numbers too. I think I recognize facial expressions, but I have a very hard time with people expressing their thoughts or feelings indirectly, like there's a disconnect and I wish the person would just tell me what's going on for them.
08 Aug 2007, 3:13 am
Perhaps they mean that those with AS have difficulty in expressing their emotions overtly? I know this is true with me, I feel emotion (which is basically feeling something within my mind when looking at pictures -- I think in pictures), but I cannot express said emotion to people in person; barring intense fear which gets past the autistic "block" (fight or flight), and people I'm extremely comfortable with (which is two), though I'd much rather write it out to those I'm comfortable with.
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