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babybird
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23 Sep 2022, 4:18 am

I'm sorry but I'm really struggling to understand how financially bolstering people who are already financially well off can have much or any impact on the economy. And even more to the point how can it make any difference or be any benefit to people who pay very little in tax.

Can anyone help me with this.

Please.



AngelRho
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23 Sep 2022, 5:24 am

Heavy taxes on the wealthy punish people for doing well.

I’m in favor of an even, across-the-board tax. Pick a percentage, it really doesn’t matter. Maybe 10%. 10% of ALL income, let’s say. For low earners, you pay next
to nothing in income tax. For high achievers, 10% is a LOT of money, but it doesn’t frustrate those who are doing really well.

If the percentage of taxes increases with income, it actually PAYS people to stay poor. I’m living proof of that. I don’t want to stay poor. But then the government bends over backwards to redefine poverty in ever-increasing terms. I’m “poor,” but my wife is a stay-at-home mom, and we have 4 kids. I make over $50k now after taking a new job. I also pay two mortgages. So even though I’m technically paying more in taxes, I’ll get all of it back PLUS SOME because of all of our kids.

That means there’s more incentive to NOT work or only accept jobs within certain income limits.

Tax breaks are actually a pretty stupid idea. Tax breaks are attractive to high earners and businesses only because the government placed a heavy tax burden on achievers in the first place. Why not just get rid of the tax breaks entirely and just lower tax rates? That would make much more sense.

It also depends on what you’re getting a tax break for. Giving to certain charities, for instance. If you support a charity, that eases the burden on the government from having to maintain a welfare system. Under welfare, the government has to divide tax money among a poor population. The problem is some needs happen to be greater than others. That means that there are winners and losers among those receiving benefits, whereas an equal distribution of funds wouldn’t really help that many people. Need-based charities reach these populations directly and ease the burden on the government. When businesses support charities with money they’d otherwise pay in taxes, the government can encourage them by giving them a tax break.

Of course, if you just lower taxes, businesses and individuals have more freedom to do all of those things. If your elderly mom and dad are facing end-of-life issues, you should do the right thing and take care of them within your means. You should also make your own arrangements for that season of life. And if mom or dad were utterly horrible to you throughout your life and you don’t think they deserve help, you’re not obligated to help them.

Simple as that.

Just lower taxes, reward achievers, and tax breaks become a thing of the past. People who work hard and achieve can save for retirement and take care of mom and dad. They can also support charities to support the less fortunate, and there’s still tax money to support those who aren’t otherwise reached.



carlos55
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23 Sep 2022, 6:45 am

babybird wrote:
I'm sorry but I'm really struggling to understand how financially bolstering people who are already financially well off can have much or any impact on the economy. And even more to the point how can it make any difference or be any benefit to people who pay very little in tax.

Can anyone help me with this.

Please.


They don’t , just the same old Labour/ Tories game being played out.

They are borrowing immense sums to pay for all this on top of everything thing else like COVID and bank bailouts of 2008.

The interest on all this debt keeps growing so it eats into what the gov can spend on stuff like the NHS etc..

Then UK has been in decline since WW2 it’s just they were able to disguise this fairly well by cheap credit and energy.

Those days are coming to an end.

I suspect the only winners will be the racists when the immigrants finally decide they are better off in their native country and leave.


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babybird
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23 Sep 2022, 7:03 am

Yeah because every time I watch the news I'm waiting to see some proof of how this is going to work but the tories just don't give proof. They just keep saying the same things over and over again: Tax cuts will help improve the economy.

It's as though if they say it enough then people might start to believe it.

I just can't see how giving a rich person an extra £1000 a year in tax cuts is going to help a low income family heat their home and put shoes on their children's feet.



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23 Sep 2022, 7:06 am

Its supposed to be 'trickle down economics' which means the rich will spend more or invest more...which creates more jobs.

It's a slow way of doing things but its the most natural. So it is good over the long term. It won't solve those immediate problems though.

This is an idea from the 80's or even further back. Nowadays people buy loads of stuff from China on the internet, so I have no idea if this is still a good idea.
Back in the 80's more stuff was manufactured here so it was simple to see the benefits.



Last edited by klanka on 23 Sep 2022, 7:44 am, edited 1 time in total.

babybird
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23 Sep 2022, 7:16 am

Yeah that was my next question. How long will it take to trickle down?

Also I'm sick to death of these tories and tory supporters who seem to think it's ok to start throwing the fact that they gave the poor people furlough throughout the pandemic and so the poor shouldn't be complaining now that the government giving tax cuts to the wealthy.

Is this their twisted f****d up definition of levelling up?

Like: we gave to the poor so now we're going to give to the rich.



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23 Sep 2022, 7:34 am

Don't be sorry, no one understands how it's going to work.

Joe Biden said, “I am encouraging unions … we need key worker protections to build an economy from the bottom up and middle out. I am sick and tired of trickle-down economics. It has never worked.”

That sounds a lot more sensible to me.


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DeathFlowerKing
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23 Sep 2022, 7:49 am

Let's all admit it, "trickle down economics" and "tax cuts for the rich" is the biggest scam that the rich ever sold to the public for the sake of protecting their own wealth and nothing more.



babybird
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23 Sep 2022, 8:56 am

KitLily wrote:
Don't be sorry, no one understands how it's going to work.

Joe Biden said, “I am encouraging unions … we need key worker protections to build an economy from the bottom up and middle out. I am sick and tired of trickle-down economics. It has never worked.”

That sounds a lot more sensible to me.


Yeah. I mean if someone who is already a multi million or billionaire haven't already put money towards future investments to look after the economy then a cut in their tax isn't going to all of a sudden push them to do it. They'll just put that extra bit of money towards their children's inheritance.

It makes absolutely no sense whatsoever.



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23 Sep 2022, 9:09 am

Trickle-down economics is rather like the poor people getting the "scraps" from the banquets of rich persons.



babybird
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23 Sep 2022, 9:10 am

kraftiekortie wrote:
Trickle-down economics is rather like the poor people getting the "scraps" from the banquets of rich persons.


Yeah. How long do I have to wait with my empty cup.



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23 Sep 2022, 9:17 am

Let me tell how this really works.

Billionaire funds politician's campaign.

Billionaire says "Cut my taxes or I stop finding your future campaigns."

Politician gets tax cut bill passed.

Billionaire spends tax cut money on stock buybacks then sends that money to offshore tax havens.

Rinse then repeat.


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babybird
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23 Sep 2022, 9:18 am

DeathFlowerKing wrote:
Let's all admit it, "trickle down economics" and "tax cuts for the rich" is the biggest scam that the rich ever sold to the public for the sake of protecting their own wealth and nothing more.


Well they think that if they keep selling it to us then at some point we'll start buying it.

I'd like to think that people are wise to their lies by now.



babybird
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23 Sep 2022, 9:19 am

Aspiegaming wrote:
Let me tell how this really works.

Billionaire funds politician's campaign.

Billionaire says "Cut my taxes or I stop finding your future campaigns."

Politician gets tax cut bill passed.

Billionaire spends tax cut money on stock buybacks then sends that money to offshore tax havens.

Rinse then repeat.


Yes that's the stark reality of it. Thank you.



babybird
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23 Sep 2022, 9:25 am

And also does tax cuts also mean benefit cuts at some point down the line?



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24 Sep 2022, 6:18 am

Judging by the way the pound-dollar exchange rate fell, it looks like the clever investors aren't expecting the UK to thrive economically. So I think it's just the Tories making the rich richer because that's what Tories do, and the idea that it'll help the economy is just a lame excuse.

Tory ideology has it that the rich are "wealth-creators" without whom we'd all be worse off. Socialist ideology has it that they're parasites.

To my mind, the supply of resources we all want and need is limited, otherwise there'd be no poverty because there'd be plenty to go round. But if you're rich, you have access to all the resources you want, and you can get other people to spend their lives making you richer. So there are even fewer resources for the rest of us. I don't think you can make somebody richer without making somebody else poorer. The Tory argument seems to be that the improved incentives to the rich will make the country richer, but we already know that wealthy countries without much socialism in the mix have a lot of poor people in them.

The Tory view is that only greedy entrepeneurs can organise the workforce. But to my mind, organising the workforce is simply a skill that anybody of reasonable intelligence and knowledge can do well. I don't see why a government or a workers' collective would necessarily be incapable of taking on the task.

So I don't think the new tax cuts for the wealthy will do the majority any good. But from a Tory point of view, a good recession will make us more desperate for work, and therefore willing to work harder for less. I think our standard of living will fall while theirs will rise.