I really don't want the US to become a Christian Theocracy

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auntblabby
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29 Sep 2022, 8:54 am

the racism seems out of the closet now after a brief period when it was down-low.



kraftiekortie
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29 Sep 2022, 9:02 am

You certainly find a lot of racism amongst "Internet Warriors" who don't want to spew forth their idiot beliefs in front of the faces of actual people.

In my mind, Trump has legitimatized "alt-right" ideology, which was mostly underground before the ascendency of Trump.



auntblabby
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29 Sep 2022, 10:49 am

goebbels may not have exactly uttered it verbatim, but trump certainly knew that if he could control the media, he could indeed reduce our nation to a herd of pigs.



AngelRho
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29 Sep 2022, 4:59 pm

auntblabby wrote:
goebbels may not have exactly uttered it verbatim, but trump certainly knew that if he could control the media, he could indeed reduce our nation to a herd of pigs.

I used to think that it was politicians who controlled the media. At present I'm convinced that it's the media who control politicians.

Newspapers/new media sell based on buyers/viewers and ad sales. Journalists have to appeal to the masses to drive sales. Any politician who acts as a billboard for the media and brings in viewership will earn the favor of the media. They keep their jobs as long as they can keep things interesting. Once they go off message or attack the media, the media drop them like a bad habit.

Trump made some disparaging remarks about Matt Drudge. Overnight, Drudge Report became an anti-Trump website. Even Fox News turned against Trump. Trump the businessman didn't make Trump the candidate. Fox News and Drudge did that.

I feel that this kind of thing is more established between liberal candidates and liberal media, though, and hatred between Fox/Drudge and Trump wasn't something I ever expected.



Dox47
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29 Sep 2022, 6:06 pm

AngelRho wrote:
I used to think that it was politicians who controlled the media. At present I'm convinced that it's the media who control politicians.


Yes, and there is some symbiosis there as well with the type of young people who are drawn to careers in media and progressive activists, who are often one and the same.


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cyberdad
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29 Sep 2022, 7:09 pm

kraftiekortie wrote:
To assume that somebody is racist based merely on his/her background is an erroneous assumption.


There is a psychological concept which is easy to understand when you read the psychological basis of what it means
https://psycnet.apa.org/fulltext/2020-45459-001.html

American racism advantages White Americans and disadvantages Americans of colour. Just as capitalism advantages the wealthy (e.g., those with the most resources can create and regulate norms, policies, and institutions that reinforce income inequality). White privilege reinforces a racial hierarchy that advantages White Americans

In cities across the United States and Europe (e.g., Atlanta, Orlando, Brussels, London), there is a lower proportion of White people living in city centers than in peripheral regions. Notably, racial segregation tends to be higher in the United States than in Europe, which is a direct consequence of racist federal, state, and local policies

Critically, the biases that develop from a lack of interracial contact often favor White Americans. By 2042, Americans of color are projected to make up a majority of the U.S. population (U.S. Census Bureau, 2008). When White Americans (i.e., the high-status racial group in the United States) are made aware of this shifting racial landscape, they often feel that their status is under threat and show greater pro-White biases and support for conservative policies, parties, and political candidates (Craig, Rucker, & Richeson, 2018). Indeed, several social psychological theories propose that high-status groups are motivated to maintain their high-status advantage by oppressing low-status groups (Verkuyten & Yogeeswaran, 2017), and critical race theorists propose that White Americans are motivated to deny the existence of racism and White advantage, and the need for hierarchy-reducing policies, such as affirmative action and welfare, as doing so legitimizes their own social status

The author of this essay is a Stanford Professor of psychology. He makes it very crystal clear in the last paragraph why Trump was elevated to power in 2016. Changing demographics resulting in fear, denial that racism exists and protection of the existing status quo.



cyberdad
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29 Sep 2022, 7:40 pm

Dox47 wrote:
Where would you like to start? My black wife? The 85% black schools I attended? The section 8 housing in Seattle's historically black Central District where I lived with my black girlfriend and her family? I could go on.


This seems to be your ace that you pull when you can' win an argument? I mean big deal. Many of us on this forum have wives who are PoCs including me.

How you feel doesn't invalidate the 70% of black Americans who consistently when polled through Gallup or Pew experience racism on a regular basis. It's likely an underestimate because a lot of what is experienced by PoC is implicit bias or covert racism which is either not perceived or unconsciously buried.

Why do I hark on about this? because bullying ostracism and social isolation is also the experience of people with neurological disorders like autism, disabilities, LGBTQI and other minority groups. The recipients of this lived experience have worse outcomes in terms of mental health and quality of life. Discrimination whether overt or covert is so pervasive that invariably people from these groups end up being prejudiced against each other. Like a psychological pandemic.

Just because there is a backlash by majority straight white conservative christians (I don't know how many of these people call themselves christians?) doesn't mean prejudice is over or they are playing victims.



DeathFlowerKing
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29 Sep 2022, 7:55 pm

I hope Americans enjoy living under an oligarchic theocracy that they created themselves. People get the governments that they deserve.



cyberdad
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29 Sep 2022, 8:47 pm

DeathFlowerKing wrote:
I hope Americans enjoy living under an oligarchic theocracy that they created themselves. People get the governments that they deserve.


IKR...it sometimes feels like I am talking to North Koreans rather than Americans.



Dox47
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29 Sep 2022, 10:29 pm

cyberdad wrote:
This seems to be your ace that you pull when you can' win an argument? I mean big deal. Many of us on this forum have wives who are PoCs including me.


LOL, as if you even know what winning an argument feels like. If you were honest (which you are not), you'd have noted that I brought this up specifically because another member was making untrue assumptions about my background and upbringing and I was correcting them, not as some cheap debate trick.

cyberdad wrote:
How you feel doesn't invalidate the 70% of black Americans who consistently when polled through Gallup or Pew experience racism on a regular basis. It's likely an underestimate because a lot of what is experienced by PoC is implicit bias or covert racism which is either not perceived or unconsciously buried.


One, implicit bias is not a real thing, yet another victim of the replication crises plaguing the social sciences, and two, those numbers are not as significant as you seem to think as the people doing the reporting are not mind readers, and it's very easy to wrongly assume the motives of others. Once again, I actually live in this country and have significant associations with many black people including having them as part of my family, and as you seem to put so much stock in "lived experience", you'd think this would count for something if you were honest (which again, you're not, you only care about "lived experience" when it supports your own opinions).

cyberdad wrote:
Why do I hark on about this?


Because you're too stubborn to admit that you don't know what you're talking about, and shameless enough to continually lie and mislead?

cyberdad wrote:
because bullying ostracism and social isolation is also the experience of people with neurological disorders like autism, disabilities, LGBTQI and other minority groups. The recipients of this lived experience have worse outcomes in terms of mental health and quality of life. Discrimination whether overt or covert is so pervasive that invariably people from these groups end up being prejudiced against each other. Like a psychological pandemic.


How does any of that justify lying about a place you know nothing about? If anything, you're making things worse for the very people you claim to care so much about by inflating the harms and obstacles in their way, thus needlessly increasing their stress and creating unnecessary divisions amongst people. The world would actually be a very slightly better place if you stopped with these posts, they are in fact harmful, if just a bit.

cyberdad wrote:
Just because there is a backlash by majority straight white conservative christians (I don't know how many of these people call themselves christians?) doesn't mean prejudice is over or they are playing victims.


Good thing no one is actually making that claim then, aside from in your own head of course.


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cyberdad
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30 Sep 2022, 1:19 am

Dox47 wrote:
Once again, I actually live in this country and have significant associations with many black people including having them as part of my family, and as you seem to put so much stock in "lived experience", you'd think this would count for something if you were honest (which again, you're not, you only care about "lived experience" when it supports your own opinions).


But do you live as a black person in America? no,

Does your living in one place in the US make you more of an expert on how black people are feeling as a population more than me ? no

As I said the incidents I post about are by black people who recount their experiences.

BLM wasn't just an exercise in "woke" it was universally supported by the black community across all states in America.

The 9% of black voters who vote Trump might have their reasons but that number is in itself not representative of the wider black population in the US

No I don't live in the US, and no I don't know first hand what it's like to live like a black man in the US but then neither do you.

If I say I am an ally I'm at least identifying with the 92% of black people who don't support MAGA culture
I'm not trying to create division. If the US (and probably the rest of the western world) wants to eradicate divisions the majority people are the ones who need to make an effort. I'm at least doing my bit.



Dox47
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30 Sep 2022, 2:10 am

cyberdad wrote:
Does your living in one place in the US make you more of an expert on how black people are feeling as a population more than me ? no


Actually, it does. Not only do I live here and fraternize with the population in question, I do so under natural circumstances, i.e. normal day to day interaction and not grievance mongering videos chosen by someone with an axe to grind. You've started out with the premise "America = racist" and you seek out videos to "prove" it, and you're not bright or self aware enough realize why that makes your "evidence" so worthless.

cyberdad wrote:
As I said the incidents I post about are by black people who recount their experiences.


A particular subset of black people, and only experiences that support your preexisting bias. I could fill this board with videos of US minorities extolling the system and waxing eloquently about what a great country America is (one of the least racist in the world, as it happens), but you'll try and hand wave them away as being racial sellouts or self hating or something, I've seen you do it before, as you don't actually care about these people, you just want to use them as a rhetorical cudgel in your ongoing anti American crusade.

cyberdad wrote:
BLM wasn't just an exercise in "woke" it was universally supported by the black community across all states in America.


LOL no, I think the word you're looking for is "scam", one that took guilty white liberals on quite the proverbial ride. What was actually accomplished, aside from furnishing some "activists" with fancy digs and luxurious lifestyles and doing billions of dollars in damage to a whole slew of cities?
The 9% of black voters who vote Trump might have their reasons but that number is in itself not representative of the wider black population in the US

cyberdad wrote:
No I don't live in the US, and no I don't know first hand what it's like to live like a black man in the US but then neither do you.


I know a damn site better than you, that's for sure. You have anti-knowledge, what you think you know so wrong that knowing nothing at all would be an improvement.

cyberdad wrote:
If I say I am an ally I'm at least identifying with the 92% of black people who don't support MAGA culture
I'm not trying to create division. If the US (and probably the rest of the western world) wants to eradicate divisions the majority people are the ones who need to make an effort. I'm at least doing my bit.


Whatever you think you're doing, you're making things worse, or you would be if anyone took what you say seriously. You're like the guy who read a couple of books on farming who's now trying to tell the 5th generation farmer that he's doing it all wrong, you should learn some humility and stop posting about things you know less than nothing about, it would at least make the quality of the discourse on the board improve if nothing else.


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AngelRho
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30 Sep 2022, 4:31 am

cyberdad wrote:

If I say I am an ally I'm at least identifying with the 92% of black people…I'm at least doing my bit.

So you admit you're a racist?



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30 Sep 2022, 5:13 am

cyberdad wrote:
DeathFlowerKing wrote:
I hope Americans enjoy living under an oligarchic theocracy that they created themselves. People get the governments that they deserve.


IKR...it sometimes feels like I am talking to North Koreans rather than Americans.


Or pre-Nazi Germans.



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30 Sep 2022, 10:26 am

Some evangelical right-wingers only want freedom of speech so they can spew anti-LGBT remarks and misgender or deadname trans people. For example, a congressman from Indiana, Jim Banks, had his Twitter account suspended for misgendering Dr. Rachel Levine. Some evangelicals take that as proof of their "persecution".

Yet when BLM protests police brutality, some states pass laws that legalize running over protesters. Some on the right love cops when they're abusing or killing people of color, but hate them when they arrest insurrectionists or raid Mar-a-Lago.

They are willing to let the world burn--literally--over their obsession with innocence and purity.



Last edited by Cornflake on 30 Sep 2022, 3:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.: De-fanged some sweeping generalities

auntblabby
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30 Sep 2022, 1:16 pm

still is not a critical mass of 'muuuricans who get that - like the prewar germans - 1/3 of us want to kill another 1/3 while the remaining 1/3 just watches and does nothing, nor can do anything, in the face of such increasingly banal evil.