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MaxE
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13 Nov 2022, 2:29 pm

I once dated somebody who I think might have been on the spectrum however I'll never know. However I was wondering if any of these "traits" might indicate a mild form of alexithymia.

So looking back it seems to me she never expressed her feelings or emotions in a straightforward manner. Instead, she would describe physical sensations or give demonstrations, hard to explain but here are examples:

When we first met, she would describe experiencing a sensation something like a thrill or shiver through her body when near me like when sitting next to me in the car. At one point when it wasn't possible for us to be together, during a phone conversation, she would demonstrate whimpering that indicated how she felt being away from me. Or inform me that every time when I left at the end of the weekend she always threw up. I'm sure there are a couple of other things that I can't think of at the moment.

But there was never any frank, straightforward discussion of feelings. Also in the above situations she would give no indication that she expected any sort of reaction on my part. Nor can I recall her ever insisting that I talk to her about my feelings, which is more or less to be expected in a romantic relationship. In retrospect I can see how this may have helped doom the relationship. It could have been due to a problem expressing emotions in an effective manner and could be seen as a genuine disability rather than mild quirkiness.

Clearly I did nothing for my part to help. Had she been more forthcoming about her feelings maybe the relationship would have ended sooner and possibly should have.

Could alexithymia be like this? BTW I may suffer from some degree of this myself. The fact that I allowed this situation to continue in this way for years could have been because I liked not having to discuss feelings despite that she was my girlfriend.


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MaxE
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26 Dec 2022, 9:51 am

So I came across the idea that Alexithymia can also mean not being able to have appropriate feelings in certain situations e.g. grief. I have never been able to do this. I didn't feel grief when either of my parents died, for example. At least I can now put a name to it. I had always been ashamed of this.


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auntblabby
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26 Dec 2022, 10:34 am

perhaps what you are describing may have saved you from a bad fate. i've experienced my own form of grief when folks close to me passed, it ain't pleasant.



ToughDiamond
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26 Dec 2022, 11:46 am

I certainly didn't experience grief in what's commonly said to be the normal way when my parents died, and I did feel a tad guilty about that. Not that I harmed / offended anybody or could have done anything about it. I'm not even sure that most people experience grief in the stereotypical way. There's a lot of play-acting goes on which might account for the appearance of a normal mode of grieving.

I tried taking an online test here:
https://embrace-autism.com/online-alexi ... tionnaire/
According to that I scored 103 which is supposed to mean I "might" have moderate alexithymia, but as usual I felt the questions were hard to answer without being misleading. For example, all those "my friends often tell me x about myself" get nowhere because it's very rare that people give me that kind of feedback.

One thing I did get from it is that I'm quite interested in talking about feelings. The test seems to suggest that's a non-alexithymia thing.

I also found a new word - "vicarious" - getting experiences by proxy, through hearing about other people's experiences. I don't suppose I'd enjoy fiction at all if I couldn't do that.

Here's the list of the questions in the test:
https://onlinematerial.posttraumatic-in ... 6A2-EN.pdf

Overall, it's still rather a mystery to me how much or little alexithymia I might have.



MaxE
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26 Dec 2022, 11:54 am

ToughDiamond wrote:
For example, all those "my friends often tell me x about myself" get nowhere because it's very rare that people give me that kind of feedback.


That would be a tough one for me as I don't really have close friends or very many, and my wife doesn't like for me to say negative things about myself. I can recall being told I was blind to others' feelings when I was younger but that to me is related to TOM.

ToughDiamond wrote:
I also found a new word - "vicarious" - getting experiences by proxy, through hearing about other people's experiences. I don't suppose I'd enjoy fiction at all if I couldn't do that.

Yeah I'm the same. I can get all teary-eyed along with a fictional character.


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auntblabby
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26 Dec 2022, 11:57 am

MaxE wrote:
ToughDiamond wrote:
For example, all those "my friends often tell me x about myself" get nowhere because it's very rare that people give me that kind of feedback.


That would be a tough one for me as I don't really have close friends or very many, and my wife doesn't like for me to say negative things about myself. I can recall being told I was blind to others' feelings when I was younger but that to me is related to TOM.

ToughDiamond wrote:
I also found a new word - "vicarious" - getting experiences by proxy, through hearing about other people's experiences. I don't suppose I'd enjoy fiction at all if I couldn't do that.

Yeah I'm the same. I can get all teary-eyed along with a fictional character.

have you experienced Stendhal's Syndrome?



auntblabby
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26 Dec 2022, 1:32 pm

98 for me, i've always been in touch with my emotions, sometimes to a fault.



ToughDiamond
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26 Dec 2022, 2:33 pm

auntblabby wrote:
MaxE wrote:
ToughDiamond wrote:
For example, all those "my friends often tell me x about myself" get nowhere because it's very rare that people give me that kind of feedback.


That would be a tough one for me as I don't really have close friends or very many, and my wife doesn't like for me to say negative things about myself. I can recall being told I was blind to others' feelings when I was younger but that to me is related to TOM.

ToughDiamond wrote:
I also found a new word - "vicarious" - getting experiences by proxy, through hearing about other people's experiences. I don't suppose I'd enjoy fiction at all if I couldn't do that.

Yeah I'm the same. I can get all teary-eyed along with a fictional character.

have you experienced Stendhal's Syndrome?

What is it?



auntblabby
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26 Dec 2022, 2:35 pm

ToughDiamond wrote:
auntblabby wrote:
MaxE wrote:
ToughDiamond wrote:
For example, all those "my friends often tell me x about myself" get nowhere because it's very rare that people give me that kind of feedback.


That would be a tough one for me as I don't really have close friends or very many, and my wife doesn't like for me to say negative things about myself. I can recall being told I was blind to others' feelings when I was younger but that to me is related to TOM.

ToughDiamond wrote:
I also found a new word - "vicarious" - getting experiences by proxy, through hearing about other people's experiences. I don't suppose I'd enjoy fiction at all if I couldn't do that.

Yeah I'm the same. I can get all teary-eyed along with a fictional character.

have you experienced Stendhal's Syndrome?

What is it?

from what i've read, it was first discovered by "alienists" [predecessors of today's shrinks] in the 1800s, some people were observed to have emotional or psychosomatic "shut downs" when exposed to things of great beauty or moment, such as great art or nature scenes. in me it manifests as weeping/turning red/sweating.



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26 Dec 2022, 2:51 pm

MaxE wrote:
ToughDiamond wrote:
For example, all those "my friends often tell me x about myself" get nowhere because it's very rare that people give me that kind of feedback.


That would be a tough one for me as I don't really have close friends or very many, and my wife doesn't like for me to say negative things about myself. I can recall being told I was blind to others' feelings when I was younger but that to me is related to TOM.

Indeed. I keep wondering who all these blunt critics are that keep popping up in questionnaires.

Quote:
ToughDiamond wrote:
I also found a new word - "vicarious" - getting experiences by proxy, through hearing about other people's experiences. I don't suppose I'd enjoy fiction at all if I couldn't do that.

Yeah I'm the same. I can get all teary-eyed along with a fictional character.

Strangely, I can be affected like that when I re-tell something moving that I've read (or experienced myself), so much so that I sometimes can't get the words out. It's not purely the vocalising of the matter, because reading aloud doesn't do that. I often don't immediately know why the particular event I'm describing affects me so strongly. Maybe I just need time to process these things, just like I need time to process logical stuff. I'm sure a lot of that happens unconsciously.

I remember a long time ago when I was struggling to get in touch with feelings, and a (presumably NT) counsellor said that feelings are difficult for a lot of people because they're so nebulous and seemingly irrational, unlike the world of concrete rational thinking where things are more tangible and tend to more readily make sense.



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26 Dec 2022, 3:30 pm

I don't have a choice in the matter when it comes to emotions.
I have to hold back not because people said it's inappropriate, but because it IS inappropriate.

Mine usually manifests in a violent matter -- it doesn't matter if it's happiness or sadness, it's either something behaviorally turbulent or something more passive but just as irrational. It never stays internalized.

And I'm unlucky enough to develop this 'emotional personality'. I didn't chose this. I didn't chose this form of irrationality.
This is what held me back since I've been a child and it certainly is holding me back as an adult.

I don't accept it. I still don't.

And I hate it.
I wish I'm more alexithymic in a way it's functional -- not 'alexithymic' because my communication and verbal abilities sucks to a point that can frustrate myself and everyone. :roll:

My alexithymic traits are somewhat artificial and self imposed -- and poorly, than naturally occurring with personality traits and personal development or/and is externally sourced by upbringing.

I need emotional regulation, not 'more comprehension'.
I already got more than enough comprehension.
And I don't see myself in this 'emotional person' except it's this program in my head that I'm gladly want to get rid of.

Words just don't match crap and it kinda looked like this 'alexithymia lite' that seem to discuss symptoms than feelings.
Because I don't "own" my feelings as much as I don't own bowel movements. Latter makes more sense than the former.


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Last edited by Edna3362 on 26 Dec 2022, 3:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.

ToughDiamond
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26 Dec 2022, 3:40 pm

auntblabby wrote:
some people were observed to have emotional or psychosomatic "shut downs" when exposed to things of great beauty or moment, such as great art or nature scenes. in me it manifests as weeping/turning red/sweating.

I once heard a chap relate his experience of eating magic mushrooms, where he'd gone out into the countryside, and stumbled onto an amazing view of Edale Vale. He said it was so overwhelming that he had to hang onto the drystone wall next to him to stop himself falling over in awe.

A similar thing had happened to me when I listened back to a vocal I'd just recorded for a song (magic mushrooms were legal back then). It sounded so breathtaking that I had to leave the house for a while, and couldn't continue working on the song till I'd calmed down a bit. I still quite like that vocal track, and it does stand out as a point where my talent had grown to a new level, but it's not THAT good.

We do have words in common use to describe these things - breathtaking, stunning, awesome - so I suppose the human race has long been aware of something akin to, but not so intense as, this Stendhal effect. Interesting that the only instances of it I know about were given a helping hand by a substance that's been described as a "psychotropic poison" (whatever that is), an aid to psychotherapy, a tool for "spiritual enlightenment," an empathogen, and a recreational drug. The Small Faces made a record about hallucinogens with this lyric: "Why the tears there? Tell you why - it's all too beautiful for me." They probably spoke from experience. And they say some people are "naturally stoned."



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26 Dec 2022, 8:22 pm

ToughDiamond wrote:
auntblabby wrote:
some people were observed to have emotional or psychosomatic "shut downs" when exposed to things of great beauty or moment, such as great art or nature scenes. in me it manifests as weeping/turning red/sweating.

I once heard a chap relate his experience of eating magic mushrooms, where he'd gone out into the countryside, and stumbled onto an amazing view of Edale Vale. He said it was so overwhelming that he had to hang onto the drystone wall next to him to stop himself falling over in awe.

A similar thing had happened to me when I listened back to a vocal I'd just recorded for a song (magic mushrooms were legal back then). It sounded so breathtaking that I had to leave the house for a while, and couldn't continue working on the song till I'd calmed down a bit. I still quite like that vocal track, and it does stand out as a point where my talent had grown to a new level, but it's not THAT good.

We do have words in common use to describe these things - breathtaking, stunning, awesome - so I suppose the human race has long been aware of something akin to, but not so intense as, this Stendhal effect. Interesting that the only instances of it I know about were given a helping hand by a substance that's been described as a "psychotropic poison" (whatever that is), an aid to psychotherapy, a tool for "spiritual enlightenment," an empathogen, and a recreational drug. The Small Faces made a record about hallucinogens with this lyric: "Why the tears there? Tell you why - it's all too beautiful for me." They probably spoke from experience. And they say some people are "naturally stoned."

some things naturally stone me. beautiful music basically rends me and sends me.



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27 Dec 2022, 3:01 am

I tend to cry tears of joy when "it's all too beautiful".


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auntblabby
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27 Dec 2022, 4:27 am

the feeling i'm feeling, is that there is just too much feeling when i'm in the throes of stendhal's. i am overloaded with feelings, with emotions, it is almost an anguished feeling.



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27 Dec 2022, 3:38 pm

^
Yes I think sometimes extreme pleasure can feel painful. The carrot can turn into a stick. Very strange.