Why there should be unions and workers' protections

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Do you feel unions should be revived?
Yes 69%  69%  [ 11 ]
No 31%  31%  [ 5 ]
Total votes : 16

Fnord
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01 Dec 2022, 4:42 am

All the times I was in unions, or working where unions existed, people reported me for such innocuous things as changing light bulbs, sweeping off my workbench, and loading paper into a printer.

Their excuse was that I was taking work from someone else. My reason was that I had been waiting days for someone to show up and do the work.

Being an engineer, I did not need some anal-retentive, cubicle-dwelling wingnut telling me that I was not allowed to do what I needed to do to get my job done.

Now that I am retired, I no longer have to put up with any more union crap.


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Dox47
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01 Dec 2022, 4:47 am

Aspiegaming wrote:
You misunderstand.


No.

Aspiegaming wrote:
The corporations own the government therefore THE GOVERNMENT will not lift a finger to help workers.


No

Aspiegaming wrote:
Workers want good pay, good working conditions, paid leave whether sick or hurt, workers compensation, maternity leave, reasonable work hours, over time pay, vacation days, health plans, dental plans, etc.


Yes, all things that cost money and can be negotiated over when you're hired.

Aspiegaming wrote:
We should stop focusing on the profit motif and start using that extra money to fund all this.


Spoken as only someone who's never experienced owning a business can.

Aspiegaming wrote:
Why start a business in the first place? Was it to create jobs? Was it to provide goods and services? Or was it to just make money, a LOT of money, ALL of the money, hoard that money for the CEO? Is money really all there is?


It's not everything, but it's not nothing either, I sure didn't open my business as a charity project, which is what it would have been had I provided everything potential employees might have demanded.


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kraftiekortie
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01 Dec 2022, 7:32 am

There’s a bad side to unions, too. No doubt about it. But, in the present climate, unions are relevant again.

I never experienced quite what Fnord experienced. I’m a union man who does his job. I “sweep my workbench.” I “load paper into printers.”

I understand owning a small business is tough. If one person calls in sick in these situations, all hell could break loose.



auntblabby
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01 Dec 2022, 7:36 am

why can't we have the relative labor and business harmony that the northern european nations have? why can't we have nice things?



magz
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01 Dec 2022, 8:17 am

A fun fact for those who find workers' unions "communist":

The Solidarity movement started as a workers' union.


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Persephone29
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01 Dec 2022, 9:08 am

The main disagreement I have with this discussion are with the people who have mentioned "high wages." I get what I bring to any situation, employment is no different. If I bring inexperience, no degree, training needs (which cost money, not to mention the fact that people get the training and then leave), poor work ethic, bad attitude (I'm here, what more do you want, etc) why would I expect a 'high' wage? Imho pay grades are earned, like anything else. Once I show an employer that I'm capable of being a asset, I will begin to see the fruits of my efforts.

When I made the decision to switch from healthcare to education, I willingly took a 50% pay cut. The hours I work (9:05am - 4:25pm), the days I get off (weekends, holidays, Summer), the sick time I accrue, the health insurance are all compensation. They might not translate into a big paycheck, but put together they make for a happy life.

I don't qualify for a high wage. I'm not educated in the field, even with a great attitude I don't earn anything above base pay. If I stay, show up and try my best, I might get a raise someday. But, given the budgets for education, I might not. I certainly won't use Asperger's to say I deserve more.


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League_Girl
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01 Dec 2022, 9:50 am

Persephone29 wrote:
The main disagreement I have with this discussion are with the people who have mentioned "high wages." I get what I bring to any situation, employment is no different. If I bring inexperience, no degree, training needs (which cost money, not to mention the fact that people get the training and then leave), poor work ethic, bad attitude (I'm here, what more do you want, etc) why would I expect a 'high' wage? Imho pay grades are earned, like anything else. Once I show an employer that I'm capable of being a asset, I will begin to see the fruits of my efforts.

When I made the decision to switch from healthcare to education, I willingly took a 50% pay cut. The hours I work (9:05am - 4:25pm), the days I get off (weekends, holidays, Summer), the sick time I accrue, the health insurance are all compensation. They might not translate into a big paycheck, but put together they make for a happy life.

I don't qualify for a high wage. I'm not educated in the field, even with a great attitude I don't earn anything above base pay. If I stay, show up and try my best, I might get a raise someday. But, given the budgets for education, I might not. I certainly won't use Asperger's to say I deserve more.


But I am sure you still make a living wage to still pay all your bills and rent or are you on section 8 and things to avoid being homeless?

And you get work benefits too, not all businesses do these things.

And I think teachers are under paid and nurses. The BS they have to put up with from students and parents and what nurses have to put up with from patience and then being expected to have a cheerful attitude and not show your true feelings makes it worth more.


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ASPartOfMe
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01 Dec 2022, 1:22 pm

Fnord wrote:

Sure, there would likely be no Middle Class were it not for unions, and the decline in the Middle Class correlates with the decline in unions; but is there really a causal connection?

Sans unions in general employers with their lawyers and HR departments are much better salary negotiators than your average individual candidate and employee. Unions by virtue of being a monopoly and since their job is negotiating salaries and benefits raised the salary and benefits to middle-class levels.

I am not saying the decline in unions is the only reason the middle class declined, there are both national and international market forces.


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Persephone29
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01 Dec 2022, 8:30 pm

League_Girl wrote:
Persephone29 wrote:
The main disagreement I have with this discussion are with the people who have mentioned "high wages." I get what I bring to any situation, employment is no different. If I bring inexperience, no degree, training needs (which cost money, not to mention the fact that people get the training and then leave), poor work ethic, bad attitude (I'm here, what more do you want, etc) why would I expect a 'high' wage? Imho pay grades are earned, like anything else. Once I show an employer that I'm capable of being a asset, I will begin to see the fruits of my efforts.

When I made the decision to switch from healthcare to education, I willingly took a 50% pay cut. The hours I work (9:05am - 4:25pm), the days I get off (weekends, holidays, Summer), the sick time I accrue, the health insurance are all compensation. They might not translate into a big paycheck, but put together they make for a happy life.

I don't qualify for a high wage. I'm not educated in the field, even with a great attitude I don't earn anything above base pay. If I stay, show up and try my best, I might get a raise someday. But, given the budgets for education, I might not. I certainly won't use Asperger's to say I deserve more.


But I am sure you still make a living wage to still pay all your bills and rent or are you on section 8 and things to avoid being homeless?

And you get work benefits too, not all businesses do these things.

And I think teachers are under paid and nurses. The BS they have to put up with from students and parents and what nurses have to put up with from patience and then being expected to have a cheerful attitude and not show your true feelings makes it worth more.


It depends on what you call a living wage. I make about $15.35/hr. The rest is immaterial. That's what the job was advertised at, I fit the minimum requirements and was hired. It was up to me if I was willing to do the job for that amount of money, I was. It's not up to the employer to see to it that I can meet my bills. They aren't raising me, they are just employing me. I made $29/hr at my last job in the medical profession. No amount of money was worth what I went through, so I left it behind and did a complete career shift.

I have a budget, the employer has a budget. It's not up to the employer to meet my needs, it's up to me to meet my needs.


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