Is modern feminism a type of female supremacy?

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DeathFlowerKing
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05 Dec 2022, 1:45 pm

I'm not asking this to put any women down. I still consider myself to have views that align with what feminism used to be about. Which is basically the right for women to make their own choices in life. Choose a career or a family or both, choose who they want to date and marry, the right to decide what they do with their bodies, the right to dress how they want, etc. I also don't like it when women are disrespected by misogynists (and lately I've come to realize that misogyny isnt just limited to men there are even some women who strangely have a strong contempt for other females).

But the reason I bring this up is because Im starting to notice that the new feminism is... different from what it used to be about. And frankly it's not something I agree with.

Some of the feminists I meet online or in real life (like my mom for example who shares some of these same views based on what she has told me) seem to literally hate all men. They claim every man is a potential rapist, ive even heard some claim that men can't be victims of rape or sexual abuse which I find particularly disgusting since I was actually molested by a cousin when I was a little kid (and like most victims of rape and molestation, male or female, nobody would believe me when I told them). They also seem to deny that some women can be abusive towards their male spouses, which I know for a fact is not true because I have seen women in relationships with (usually younger or very elderly) men who would take full advantage of them.

Then there's the issue of them constantly using words like "patriarchy" to mean something sinister that makes all women powerless. What they fail to realize is that not every patriarchal society stripped women completely of their power or their rights. In many patriarchal societies some women were given power over certain areas in society. For exmple when it came to arranging the marriages of their children or controlling the finances of the family. There have even been patriarchal societies that were well known for having powerful and influential female leaders like the British Empire and Ancient Egypt. Some of these patriarchal societies (like Ancient Egypt) also had educated female doctors, and in Ancient Roman society you had the priestesses who served under Vesta who could own property and were highly respected in their positions, even given the right to own and free slaves.

I'm just saying society is never 100% ideal for women in any point in history, I get it.

But I guess what I'm asking is why has modern feminism turned into a crusade against men the way Black Lives Matter has turned into a crusade against white people?

It just feels self-destructive to me (for lack of a better word). I feel that these extreme and misguided views are doomed to fail. And then what worries me is that people will quit taking feminism and the rights that women deserve seriously.

But then again I wonder if as a man it's not my place to really comment on this?



usagibryan
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05 Dec 2022, 1:59 pm

It sounds like you have experience with bad feminists. Maybe this is a no true scotsman, but I feel like good feminists believe in equality and recognize that consent matters for all genders, men can be sexually assaulted too, men are hurt by toxic masculinity, etc. Real feminism is inclusive, they just call the system of inequality patriarchy.

I don't think Black Lives Matter has turned into a crusade against white people either, it's an attempt to point out the double standards of how black people are treated by cops vs white people.

DeathFlowerKing wrote:
And then what worries me is that people will quit taking feminism and the rights that women deserve seriously.


Is that a legit fear? I feel like if someone suddenly decides they don't agree with women's rights because of a few bad eggs they never saw women as equals to begin with...


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DeathFlowerKing
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05 Dec 2022, 2:18 pm

usagibryan wrote:
It sounds like you have experience with bad feminists. Maybe this is a no true scotsman, but I feel like good feminists believe in equality and recognize that consent matters for all genders, men can be sexually assaulted too, men are hurt by toxic masculinity, etc. Real feminism is inclusive, they just call the system of inequality patriarchy.

I don't think Black Lives Matter has turned into a crusade against white people either, it's an attempt to point out the double standards of how black people are treated by cops vs white people.

DeathFlowerKing wrote:
And then what worries me is that people will quit taking feminism and the rights that women deserve seriously.


Is that a legit fear? I feel like if someone suddenly decides they don't agree with women's rights because of a few bad eggs they never saw women as equals to begin with...


Yeah I know there are still feminists who believe in equality and choice vs misandry (hatred of men). I like to think I'm one of these although maybe sometimes I just "don't get it" from the viewpoint of being a male.

And yes it is a legit fear. I feel that ignorance is a learned behavior and every society that embraced widespread ignorant attitude towards women or different ethnic groups had their start at some point in history.

As for black lives matter, I believe it originally started with the intent of bringing light to the injustices that black people experience to this day from racism. But I have met supporters of this movement who were "bad eggs" too. Spreading hatred towards all white people including ones who sympathize with black people and making claims that all white people are racist bigots (just like some of today's feminists who claim all men are abusers and rapists).

I think think these movements started off with the best intentions but somewhere down the road they got lost.



usagibryan
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05 Dec 2022, 3:21 pm

This is not my experience at all hanging out in lefty online spaces, but it's all anecdotal. I don't know who you are following or listening to but they sound toxic and IMHO not representative of social justice movements.


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DeathFlowerKing
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05 Dec 2022, 3:31 pm

usagibryan wrote:
This is not my experience at all hanging out in lefty online spaces, but it's all anecdotal. I don't know who you are following or listening to but they sound toxic and IMHO not representative of social justice movements.


Mostly people from Reddit and Facebook (and Youtube), bloggers, not to mention the influence these things have had on our modern TV shows and movies. Plus the neopagan online communities... and sometimes my own mom.

I agree it is all very toxic now. Enough to almost drive me away from caring about these issues.

The only thing that still keeps me in the loop is realizing that while I am a white male myself I am also part of some of these minority groups being both a homosexual and autistic with a severe mental illness. I understand what it is like to feel bullied from those things alone.



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05 Dec 2022, 8:14 pm

Is modern feminism a type of female supremacy? No I think that's taking it too far. I think it's only true in as far as many individual people won't stop pushing for more power when they've got a fair share of it. They may start from a downtrodden position where the end justifies the means, but the means eventually becomes the end. Power seems to be addictive like that. It's also difficult to precisely measure the overall power of an individual, so there's plenty of room for endless argument about how far they can go before equality is reached.

But in a free market society, I suppose inequality is seen as more or less OK anyway. I don't have any time for conservative feminism myself.



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05 Dec 2022, 8:20 pm

I think misogynists want feminism to be portrayed as female supremacy, so they can reject it.
That includes misogynist women.

I have no idea what "modern feminism" is as a political philosophy.
I don't brand myself with labels like the waves of feminism, and I don't understand the need.

imo feminism means believing men and women are equal, and should be treated as such.
There are many areas where men and women continue to face discrimination despite the law.
I fight for the rights of all humans against sexism, homo / transphobia, racism, classism, and now ableism.



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05 Dec 2022, 8:24 pm

DeathFlowerKing wrote:
Is modern feminism a type of female supremacy?
In general, modern feminism is all about seeking civil and legal equality with men.  But when you are accustomed to male privilege -- both civil and legal -- equality with women may feel like oppression


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DeathFlowerKing
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05 Dec 2022, 9:09 pm

I think i used the wrong choice of words in my topic title? I guess the youtuber who was using this same word "female supremacist" was really a misogynist trying to disguised his real views on women.

I apologize. :oops:



DeathFlowerKing
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05 Dec 2022, 9:43 pm

BUT on the other hand, I think it's really unfair to assume that all feminists only want equality and that they don't have a personal grudge against men ladened with a desire to punish us. And to punish women too for not conforming to their idea of what feminism should be.

So... i stand by my opinion even if I made a mistake in my choice of words.



IsabellaLinton
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05 Dec 2022, 9:49 pm

Right.

And many men have a grudge against women, and want to punish women.
They also want to punish men who don't have the same view of how to be men.

What goes around comes around.

The same holds true for homophobes, transphobes, and all other bigots.

I don't know how or why "equality" is such a hard concept for people to grasp.



DeathFlowerKing
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05 Dec 2022, 9:51 pm

IsabellaLinton wrote:
Right.

And many men have a grudge against women, and want to punish women.
They also want to punish men who don't have the same view of how to be men.

What goes around comes around.

The same holds true for homophobes, transphobes, and all other bigots.

I don't know how or why "equality" is such a hard concept for people to grasp.


I don't get it either, unless making people unequal is just an ingrained part of human nature?



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05 Dec 2022, 10:53 pm

DeathFlowerKing wrote:
I don't get it either, unless making people unequal is just an ingrained part of human nature?
It sure seems that way. Put two or more people together, and they will compete for dominance. I have seen it in everywhere from classrooms to boardrooms, from battlegrounds to playgrounds, and in just about any situation where two or more people must interact.


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DeathFlowerKing
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05 Dec 2022, 10:55 pm

Fnord wrote:
DeathFlowerKing wrote:
I don't get it either, unless making people unequal is just an ingrained part of human nature?
It sure seems that way. Put two or more people together, and they will compete for dominance. I have seen it in everywhere from classrooms to boardrooms, from battlegrounds to playgrounds, and in just about any situation where two or more people must interact.


Indeed, it's very sad but true.

We're all only truly equal in death.



Tim_Tex
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06 Dec 2022, 10:57 pm

My guess is that the OP is referring specifically to radical feminists (aka "feminazis"), the Germaine Greer or Andrea Dworkin types.



DeathFlowerKing
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06 Dec 2022, 11:03 pm

Tim_Tex wrote:
My guess is that the OP is referring specifically to radical feminists (aka "feminazis"), the Germaine Greer or Andrea Dworkin types.


Pretty much, though to be honest at this point I'm starting to question what I really mean about anything anymore. :jester: