28 Dec 2022, 4:42 pm
Matthew 6:24
No man can serve two masters: for either he
will hate the one, and love the other; or else
he will hold to the one, and despise the other,
Ye cannot serve God and mammon.
So...what's mammon you ask?
money, material wealth, or any entity that promises wealth, and is associated with the greedy pursuit of gain.
In both Gospels the term is associated with unrighteousness and represents something that is at odds with service to God. Given that both passages are contextualized within a discussion of one's treasures in heaven, the word is usually understood as the acquisition of material wealth or the idolatry of material riches.
So how does this sit with the ultra capitalist pro-republican christian fundamentalists??
How does one claim to be christian but serve mammon??
Why do wealthy christians judge those who are poor as less/beneath than them?
Didn't jesus say "Whatever you do, to the least of my brothers, that you do unto me"?
The church of Christ believes that the church should only help the Christian poor...the church of Christ believes it is up to the individual Christian to help the non-Christian poor.
28 Dec 2022, 5:18 pm
Matthew 6:24
No man can serve two masters: for either he
will hate the one, and love the other; or else
he will hold to the one, and despise the other,
Ye cannot serve God and mammon.
So...what's mammon you ask?
money, material wealth, or any entity that promises wealth, and is associated with the greedy pursuit of gain.
In both Gospels the term is associated with unrighteousness and represents something that is at odds with service to God. Given that both passages are contextualized within a discussion of one's treasures in heaven, the word is usually understood as the acquisition of material wealth or the idolatry of material riches.
So how does this sit with the ultra capitalist pro-republican christian fundamentalists??
How does one claim to be christian but serve mammon??
Why do wealthy christians judge those who are poor as less/beneath than them?
Didn't jesus say "Whatever you do, to the least of my brothers, that you do unto me"?
The church of Christ believes that the church should only help the Christian poor...the church of Christ believes it is up to the individual Christian to help the non-Christian poor.
That's a very terrible mindset to have.
28 Dec 2022, 6:52 pm
Matthew 6:24
No man can serve two masters: for either he
will hate the one, and love the other; or else
he will hold to the one, and despise the other,
Ye cannot serve God and mammon.
So...what's mammon you ask?
money, material wealth, or any entity that promises wealth, and is associated with the greedy pursuit of gain.
In both Gospels the term is associated with unrighteousness and represents something that is at odds with service to God. Given that both passages are contextualized within a discussion of one's treasures in heaven, the word is usually understood as the acquisition of material wealth or the idolatry of material riches.
So how does this sit with the ultra capitalist pro-republican christian fundamentalists??
How does one claim to be christian but serve mammon??
Why do wealthy christians judge those who are poor as less/beneath than them?
Didn't jesus say "Whatever you do, to the least of my brothers, that you do unto me"?
The church of Christ believes that the church should only help the Christian poor...the church of Christ believes it is up to the individual Christian to help the non-Christian poor.
That's a very terrible mindset to have.
To each their own.
29 Dec 2022, 12:23 am
Matthew 6:24
No man can serve two masters: for either he
will hate the one, and love the other; or else
he will hold to the one, and despise the other,
Ye cannot serve God and mammon.
So...what's mammon you ask?
money, material wealth, or any entity that promises wealth, and is associated with the greedy pursuit of gain.
In both Gospels the term is associated with unrighteousness and represents something that is at odds with service to God. Given that both passages are contextualized within a discussion of one's treasures in heaven, the word is usually understood as the acquisition of material wealth or the idolatry of material riches.
So how does this sit with the ultra capitalist pro-republican christian fundamentalists??
How does one claim to be christian but serve mammon??
Why do wealthy christians judge those who are poor as less/beneath than them?
Didn't jesus say "Whatever you do, to the least of my brothers, that you do unto me"?
I think the 10 percent of your gross income is a good place to start for sacrificial giving to a church but really I think the best policy is to give all income and wealth to your church live communally with Christian brothers and sisters.One of the reasons why I dont give to individual poor people is because my family pays a lot in taxes and some of that tax money goes to welfare and the social safety net.Also, I prefer to help the poor by giving them jobs by shopping or going out to eat not giving.I think most people in America today are poor because of their own fault although this mainly applies to the neurotypical rather than us.
08 Jan 2023, 5:07 pm
Well as a Christian I believe that all billionaires are going to Hell most likely.Thats just my 2 cents.
I feel like they tell everyone this so the people don't take putting them in hell into their own hands.
08 Jan 2023, 5:18 pm
It's quite strange, on the one hand they losing followers all the time as young people become athiests. Yet the church is growing in power?
I don't think it is. It's just that neo-fascist ideology is becoming more overt. The non-religious right is actually worse than the religious right in some ways as they are way more mask-off in that they just don't care that they are seen as evil, so long as they think being a nasty piece of garbage makes them "muh alpha male" or whatever. I don't think removing religion would make these people better. They use religion to justify the bigotry and bullying instincts they already have. As the world gets harsher and more people live in constant anxiety due to economic collapse brought on by oligarchic greed, in the absence of cooperative survival strategies, people will decide becoming meaner and harsher to their neighbor is the way to survive. They first pick on the weakest and most marginalized of society, but eventually they will even eat each other. Nobody is safe.
08 Jan 2023, 5:21 pm
Easy answer, sin.
Easy answer, sin.
_________________
"There are a thousand things that can happen when you go light a rocket engine, and only one of them is good."
Tom Mueller of SpaceX, in Air and Space, Jan. 2011
09 Jan 2023, 12:30 am
Well today in church they announced that they were going to have a Dave Ramsey class.A big part of the Dave Ramsey class that my church is going to teach is how to become a multi-millionaire Christian.I dont think Jesus would tell Christians how to be multi-millionaires if he was here today.This announcement at church reminded me of this thread.
09 Jan 2023, 2:29 am
Yeah, that likely would not be the center point of His ministry.
However He'd probably be happy with Christians who already have multimillions going and using the money to help people.
And there's probably more that even people living in Social Security Disability poverty like me can give and do.
Whether I have twenty dollars or twenty-million dollars, ain't none of it going with me when I'm gone!
_________________
"There are a thousand things that can happen when you go light a rocket engine, and only one of them is good."
Tom Mueller of SpaceX, in Air and Space, Jan. 2011
09 Jan 2023, 2:47 am
Yeah, that likely would not be the center point of His ministry.
However He'd probably be happy with Christians who already have multimillions going and using the money to help people.
And there's probably more that even people living in Social Security Disability poverty like me can give and do.
Whether I have twenty dollars or twenty-million dollars, ain't none of it going with me when I'm gone!
Ya.Good points.I just think that ideally people who are getting financial help from people should get financially literate to get better money habits to prevent them from winding up in the same situation as they were before.I think stewardship is important.I know not all financial situations can be prevented by financial literacy but financial literacy does help many people.I think ideally Jesus would have Christians give all their millions to the church and the poor but thats just what I think.
09 Jan 2023, 3:50 am
Almost all evangelical churches stipulate members share 10% of their wealth/income with the church. A number of sects demand more of their members. But Mammon is pretty powerful. One of the benefactors of a church my parents used to attend rented out one of his investment buildings to conduct church services. What the members didn't know is that he registered the building (which was 40 floors and only one floor was the church) as a place of worship so he paid no tax on the building. Basically he was making money out of being christian.
I am confused because here in America religious real estate is only tax-free if its held in a non-profit.Someone cant personally own it and get the tax break or at least thats how it is in America.
09 Jan 2023, 4:13 am
Yeah here in Australia the catholic and Anglican church earn millions and get a tax break on all their investments
09 Jan 2023, 7:00 am
Yeah here in Australia the catholic and Anglican church earn millions and get a tax break on all their investments
Ya many churches are like that here because churches have tax-free endowments in the stock market.But they have to pay taxes on unrelated business income.
AngelRho
Veteran
Joined: 4 Jan 2008
Age: 45
Gender: Male
Posts: 9,366
Location: The Landmass between N.O. and Mobile
16 Jan 2023, 8:21 pm
Serving God and money?
Well, that's an easy one for capitalist Christians. You can't serve two masters.
First of all, I don't understand Christians who make claims to hating money. As human beings, what are we to God that God would give His Son to save us from an eternity separated from Him? If God with a wave of His hand wipe out (almost) all humanity with a flood and destroy entire cities with fire and not even blink, what are we that God wants to save us?
God wants something. Pure and simple. We represent value to God, and He Himself is the currency exchanged for saving us.
Money cannot be sinful because money represents value. Value is what ties us to God. If God can value things, so can we.
Second, money is a tool. By representing value, we can exchange our goods and services for things we need and to enhance our quality of life. Money is meant to work in our favor and to our advantage. When you earn money through your ideas and creative effort, when you create value, money is your best friend. If pursuit of money leads to squandering it for worthlessness, when money is gained through theft and extortion, value is destroyed and lost. You are either compelled to steal and destroy, or you must borrow and go into debt. Once you are in debt, you must create and work to restore the value you lost by accepting money that hasn't been earned. You work not for the joy of creating things, but to serve money as though money is a master. Debt means you cannot honor God through giving, since you have nothing to give.
There are other ways in which money becomes your master. One example is working jobs you hate in order to support a meager existence.
Another financial sin is trying to coerce and control people who have money for no reason other than they have what you wish you had. The value of money is in the work you put into making it. Money obtained any other way (unearned or undeserved, and one can deserve money they don't directly earn, but someone believes that person is worth supporting. One's children, for instance) is worthless. And guilting people for being valuable is perhaps one of the worst things anyone can do. The Church has, sadly, been active in guilting people for being achievers or for wanting to improve themselves. I'd say if the church is in the business of making people feel bad for pursuing value and self-improvement, then that is a severe problem. It is the church that has made money the object of worship, and not for anything they have earned or deserved.
Now...there is nothing wrong with tithing or making offerings. But that is a decision for the individual to make. The church has no business in telling people what to do with their money aside from what has been commanded already in the Bible. When you've experienced poverty the way my family has and the church celebrates poverty while church leaders are eating steak dinners at the most expensive restaurants, the sound of hypocrisy becomes too loud to tolerate for long.
18 Jan 2023, 12:32 am
Marx came up with the saying that "Religion is the opiate of the people". Faith provides solace to those who don't want to face all of the realities of life. It provides purpose where it's really people just making stuff up, literally improvising and demanding that followers don't question....
Marx also inspired leaders like Stalin and Mao who destroyed the religions in their own countries while forcing their people to worship portraits of them almost as Gods.
Go figure...
Neither Stalin nor Mao actually destroyed anything religious.
They were truly against religion that is right, but religions in these countries served on and were part of culture, it was and still is impossible to get rid off.
The religions were put on second rate list of state priorities, but they were still somewhat funded, as many people were actually religious.
It is true that some level of religious persecution happened and the wealth of these religions were somewhat diminished by state.
Realistically though if you were hardcore communist and your grandma and grandpa were Orthodox Christiands you would probably not bulldozer their church.
I think the anti religious sentiment is overrated in communism since most of China is still religious and even Tibet is being richly funded and China sports several religions including muslim religion.
