What type of people allow a 5 year old to transition!?

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Pepe
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22 Dec 2022, 3:53 am

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What type of people allow a 5 year old to transition!?
Ami Horowitz
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7,871 views Oct 19, 2022



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And one more thing,



Also, as George Carlin said, "I have no stake in the outcome." I'll stick around for the comedy.

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22 Dec 2022, 4:05 am

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kitesandtrainsandcats
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25 Dec 2022, 1:29 am

Played in search engines looking for written content about the thing and while doing that, found,

Transgender Issues
Is Three Too Young for Children to Know They're a Different Gender? Transgender Researchers Disagree
07:03
Jon Brooks
Aug 26, 2018

https://www.kqed.org/futureofyou/440851 ... ransgender

Quote:
Many gender clinicians now recommend parents 'socially transition' kids who persistently express a transgender identity.
But research has shown most children will give up their transgender identity by the time they are adolescents.
Not all researchers agree, though, that this research is valid.


Hmm,

Quote:
How young is too young?
UCSF’s Diane Ehrensaft, one of the leading proponents of socially transitioning transgender children, believes there is no minimum age, really, to pursue such a change.'For all of these interventions, our model is stages not ages,” she said. 'When a child is at the place in their life that they can get themselves in focus, help us see them, and are clear, consistent, and stable in both their representation of themselves, and also can express their desires of how they want to live their gender, that's the age.'We have seen some kids as young as two whose parents are bringing them in because they're beginning to say, ‘Me not boy. Me girl.’ Social transition can happen as soon as a child has language or the ability to communicate to us who they are.'


Another hmm,

Quote:
Not Just Numbers

When it comes down to it, when we talk about the controversy over socially transitioning young kids, we are talking about risk analysis. Which is more disruptive and potentially harmful: to deny children their genuinely felt gender identity in the present moment, until the adults are absolutely sure it will stick? Or to validate a child’s persistent, consistent and insistent protestations that ‘Hey, someone has made a terrible mistake here,’ even if they eventually decide they no longer feel that way?

Ehrensaft, at least, is clear on the answer:

“Why would we deny for the vast majority of kids something that is basically suicide prevention?”


:arrow: Here's more about the UCSF professor named in 2nd quote,
https://www.ucsfbenioffchildrens.org/pr ... -ehrensaft
and
http://dianeehrensaft.com/


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Quantum duck
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25 Dec 2022, 6:44 am

Developmentally children do not understand that gender is fixed until three or four years of age. Before that, most of them are “gender fluid”. At around three they begin to identify with their own gender and attempt to identify the traits of that gender (based on their society) and emphasize them.

I taught preschool. I had never heard of transgender people, so I assumed Kevin was gay (which was fine with me) looking back - I’m confident that Kevin was exactly what she said she was - a little girl. I hope she grew into a happy, confident woman.



funeralxempire
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23 Jan 2023, 1:32 am

kitesandtrainsandcats wrote:
Played in search engines looking for written content about the thing and while doing that, found,

Transgender Issues
Is Three Too Young for Children to Know They're a Different Gender? Transgender Researchers Disagree
07:03
Jon Brooks
Aug 26, 2018

https://www.kqed.org/futureofyou/440851 ... ransgender

Quote:
Many gender clinicians now recommend parents 'socially transition' kids who persistently express a transgender identity.
But research has shown most children will give up their transgender identity by the time they are adolescents.
Not all researchers agree, though, that this research is valid.


Hmm,

Quote:
How young is too young?
UCSF’s Diane Ehrensaft, one of the leading proponents of socially transitioning transgender children, believes there is no minimum age, really, to pursue such a change.'For all of these interventions, our model is stages not ages,” she said. 'When a child is at the place in their life that they can get themselves in focus, help us see them, and are clear, consistent, and stable in both their representation of themselves, and also can express their desires of how they want to live their gender, that's the age.'We have seen some kids as young as two whose parents are bringing them in because they're beginning to say, ‘Me not boy. Me girl.’ Social transition can happen as soon as a child has language or the ability to communicate to us who they are.'


Another hmm,

Quote:
Not Just Numbers

When it comes down to it, when we talk about the controversy over socially transitioning young kids, we are talking about risk analysis. Which is more disruptive and potentially harmful: to deny children their genuinely felt gender identity in the present moment, until the adults are absolutely sure it will stick? Or to validate a child’s persistent, consistent and insistent protestations that ‘Hey, someone has made a terrible mistake here,’ even if they eventually decide they no longer feel that way?

Ehrensaft, at least, is clear on the answer:

“Why would we deny for the vast majority of kids something that is basically suicide prevention?”


:arrow: Here's more about the UCSF professor named in 2nd quote,
https://www.ucsfbenioffchildrens.org/pr ... -ehrensaft
and
http://dianeehrensaft.com/


I believe the point of the thread isn't to have a thoughtful discussion about this issue, but instead just to cause hysteria.


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23 Jan 2023, 2:33 am

Have any five year olds been allowing to make irreversible changes?


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The_Walrus
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23 Jan 2023, 1:44 pm

RetroGamer87 wrote:
Have any five year olds been allowing to make irreversible changes?

No, but the transphobes don’t actually care about children, they just want to control how other people express their gender.



Dengashinobi
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23 Jan 2023, 3:34 pm

The_Walrus wrote:
RetroGamer87 wrote:
Have any five year olds been allowing to make irreversible changes?

No, but the transphobes don’t actually care about children, they just want to control how other people express their gender.


At which age are clinicians allowed to make irreversible change to children? What about non irreversible changes?



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23 Jan 2023, 4:14 pm

Dengashinobi wrote:
The_Walrus wrote:
RetroGamer87 wrote:
Have any five year olds been allowing to make irreversible changes?

No, but the transphobes don’t actually care about children, they just want to control how other people express their gender.


At which age are clinicians allowed to make irreversible change to children? What about non irreversible changes?


They'll do breast reductions on teenagers, regardless of their gender identity.

What sort of reversible change would you be thinking of? Like a change in wardrobe?


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Dengashinobi
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23 Jan 2023, 4:41 pm

funeralxempire wrote:
Dengashinobi wrote:
The_Walrus wrote:
RetroGamer87 wrote:
Have any five year olds been allowing to make irreversible changes?

No, but the transphobes don’t actually care about children, they just want to control how other people express their gender.


At which age are clinicians allowed to make irreversible change to children? What about non irreversible changes?


They'll do breast reductions on teenagers, regardless of their gender identity.

What sort of reversible change would you be thinking of? Like a change in wardrobe?


Teenagers which age? Because I've read some clinics sites which they offer changes for ages as young as 9 years old. Is this true?

Since they said irreversible I thought that there must be reversible interventions also, like taking hormones maybe, idk.



funeralxempire
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23 Jan 2023, 4:59 pm

Dengashinobi wrote:
funeralxempire wrote:
Dengashinobi wrote:
The_Walrus wrote:
RetroGamer87 wrote:
Have any five year olds been allowing to make irreversible changes?

No, but the transphobes don’t actually care about children, they just want to control how other people express their gender.


At which age are clinicians allowed to make irreversible change to children? What about non irreversible changes?


They'll do breast reductions on teenagers, regardless of their gender identity.

What sort of reversible change would you be thinking of? Like a change in wardrobe?


Teenagers which age? Because I've read some clinics sites which they offer changes for ages as young as 9 years old. Is this true?

Since they said irreversible I thought that there must be reversible interventions also, like taking hormones maybe, idk.


Hormone blockers are used, but they wouldn't be considered unless someone's already in puberty.

As for reductions, high school aged people because the problem doesn't usually exist before that age.

I have yet to encounter any report of bottom surgery being considered for young children.
Different places have different rules when it comes to when one can make their own decisions medically.

In Ontario an 11 year old is entitled to refuse to continue chemotherapy, for example. But also:

Quote:
Ontario is different from many other provinces in that it affords children complete control over their own health-care decisions unless they are deemed incapable by a physician. The doctor's decision can be appealed to the Consent and Capacity Board. Most other provinces work the opposite way — children must qualify as a “mature minor” in order for their decisions to hold sway. In Quebec, children under 14 are considered minors and must meet the “mature minor” test, while in Manitoba children under 16 are minors.


So, the age one can make those decisions at and who is entitled to question them isn't consistent. Despite that:

Quote:
Sex reassignment surgery is generally not performed on those under the provincial age of majority, as all clinics in Canada that currently perform reassignment surgery conform to the recognized Standards of Care. These Standards, which are regarding health care for trans persons, forbid irreversible interventions (such as surgery) on patients before they reach the age of majority. As a result, if you are a minor in Canada, you generally cannot change your sex designation in provinces or territories where proof of surgery is required.


1: https://www.thestar.com/news/gta/2015/0 ... -care.html
2: https://ccla.org/get-informed/talk-righ ... s-persons/


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PenPen
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23 Jan 2023, 5:18 pm

Right wing individualist arguments will probably fail as the data comes out that most people are set in their gender identity by a certain year before puberty/adulthood. Maybe some snags along the way, but the writing is on the wall. They would have to make a collectivist argument that representing your sex over gender is a responsibility you owe to society, but this contradicts the American goal of liberty. Support for this policy is already near 50%, so I suspect it will become a new norm with time.



Pepe
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23 Jan 2023, 5:20 pm

Quantum duck wrote:
Developmentally children do not understand that gender is fixed until three or four years of age. Before that, most of them are “gender fluid”. At around three they begin to identify with their own gender and attempt to identify the traits of that gender (based on their society) and emphasize them.

I taught preschool. I had never heard of transgender people, so I assumed Kevin was gay (which was fine with me) looking back - I’m confident that Kevin was exactly what she said she was - a little girl. I hope she grew into a happy, confident woman.


Reason would suggest there is a period in a child's life where the concept of "gender" is not recognised by the child.
Some seem to think that instinctual elements have been in play since conception.
Perhaps, but conscious gender identification at such an early age is an absurdity, surely.
It would have more to do with environmental influences at that time, imo.


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Laughter is the best medicine. Age-appropriate behaviour is an arbitrary NT social construct.
Don't tell me white lies. Gaslight me at your peril. Don't give me your bad attitude. Hypnosis, psychosis. Tomarto, tomayto. There are *4* lights. Honey badger.
If I'm so bad, pass me by. ;)


And one more thing,



Also, as George Carlin said, "I have no stake in the outcome." I'll stick around for the comedy.

"A stranger is a friend gang-stalker you haven't met yet."
Truth may be inconvenient but it is never politically incorrect...The Oracle of Truth has spoken...8)
Glory to Ukraine.


Pepe
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23 Jan 2023, 5:25 pm

PenPen wrote:
Right wing individualist arguments will probably fail as the data comes out that most people are set in their gender identity by a certain year before puberty/adulthood. Maybe some snags along the way, but the writing is on the wall. They would have to make a collectivist argument that representing your sex over gender is a responsibility you owe to society, but this contradicts the American goal of liberty. Support for this policy is already near 50%, so I suspect it will become a new norm with time.


Why bring politics into this?
Not all conservatives are religious.
You don't have to be "right-wing" to think rationally and appreciate individuality.
Simply following a narrative has always puzzled me, especially for those on the spectrum.


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Laughter is the best medicine. Age-appropriate behaviour is an arbitrary NT social construct.
Don't tell me white lies. Gaslight me at your peril. Don't give me your bad attitude. Hypnosis, psychosis. Tomarto, tomayto. There are *4* lights. Honey badger.
If I'm so bad, pass me by. ;)


And one more thing,



Also, as George Carlin said, "I have no stake in the outcome." I'll stick around for the comedy.

"A stranger is a friend gang-stalker you haven't met yet."
Truth may be inconvenient but it is never politically incorrect...The Oracle of Truth has spoken...8)
Glory to Ukraine.


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23 Jan 2023, 6:11 pm

The_Walrus wrote:
RetroGamer87 wrote:
Have any five year olds been allowing to make irreversible changes?
No, but the transphobes don’t actually care about children, they just want to control how other people express their gender.
I've seen transphobes on Facebook saying "leftists need to stop forcing gender identity on children." Ironically that's exactly what transphobes are doing.


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RetroGamer87
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23 Jan 2023, 6:24 pm

Dengashinobi wrote:
Teenagers which age? Because I've read some clinics sites which they offer changes for ages as young as 9 years old. Is this true?

Since they said irreversible I thought that there must be reversible interventions also, like taking hormones maybe, idk.

They were probably just lying.

The transphobes act like kids are all getting their genitals amputated yet they also say "don't date a liberal women because she might have a penis" so which is it? Do transpeople have easy access to gender affirmation surgery at a young age or do they never have the surgery?

It can't be both. But transphobes are trying to have it both ways for the sake of argument.

All this Helen Lovejoy "Won't somebody please think of the children" serves to disguise the fact that transphobes are trying to control other people's bodies.

If my neighbour chooses to have surgery performed on a part of their body I can't even see while they're clothed, that has no effect on me at all. Transphobes are trying to control things that have no effect on them.


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