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Dengashinobi
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10 Mar 2023, 3:18 pm

InTheWild wrote:
I like to think of wokeism as PC on steroids. It has gone to such an insane level. I don't know anyone who doesn't feel that way to some degree.

As far as the original question, I think there is an awful lot posturing going on in Hollywood, simply to appear enlightened.


"PC on steroids", nice one. My favourite description of wokeism is "A bad religion run amok" by Nick Cave.



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10 Mar 2023, 3:35 pm

Next time Hollywood pretends to be woke with all their reimagining for modern audiences, I'm just gonna bring up a term that I should have used a long time ago.

Selling out.


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InTheWild
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10 Mar 2023, 3:43 pm

Dengashinobi wrote:
InTheWild wrote:
I like to think of wokeism as PC on steroids. It has gone to such an insane level. I don't know anyone who doesn't feel that way to some degree.

As far as the original question, I think there is an awful lot posturing going on in Hollywood, simply to appear enlightened.


"PC on steroids", nice one. My favourite description of wokeism is "A bad religion run amok" by Nick Cave.


Yeah, I like that one also.



Dengashinobi
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10 Mar 2023, 3:44 pm

Aspiegaming wrote:
Next time Hollywood pretends to be woke with all their reimagining for modern audiences, I'm just gonna bring up a term that I should have used a long time ago.

Selling out.


Yes, the problem with Hollywood is not being truly woke enough.



Last edited by Dengashinobi on 10 Mar 2023, 3:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.

InTheWild
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10 Mar 2023, 3:46 pm

This was a great skewering of the alleged woke Hollywood elite:



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10 Mar 2023, 5:52 pm

Everyone who is angry at wokeness in Hollywood should realise part of the problems is us.

I'll give you two examples
Example 1. I was watching the animated version of the Witcher (A Netflix owned production) made in 2021. The tale is set in a medieval era but it's a fantasy realm. The opening scenes show a horse and carriage traversing a dirt road. The man steering from a distance was a tall bearded man with no hair dressed in an outfit that would be typical of medieval England. As the camera pans closer the bearded man looks slightly tanned but apart from that I think nothing of it. He suddenly stops the carriage to check on the passengers. He calls to them, they are his kids. This is where my brain was suddenly confronted by an image took some time to process. The three children who stuck their heads out of the window speaking perfect Oxford English were all African in appearance. I wasn't expecting it.

Did this ruin my experience? no. My brain caught up. This is a) animated b) it's a fantasy realm and c) in such a genre you can caricature characters to look like anyone. I'm sure there are many who will argue the experience is not authentic because there were no Africans in medieval England. But here's the thing. It's not England. It's a fantasy realm with a weird name. In such a realm there are no hard rules. I happily watch till the end because it's creative and fun. I am not stuck in dogma.

Example 2 - Another Netflix series called Carnival Row stars A listers Orlando Bloom and Cara Delevingne set in what looks like industrial England. Everyone speaks with a cockney accent and the leaders/rich people speak with an Oxford accent. In such a fantasy realm there are the fay. magical creatures who live among humans. The fay are treated as vermin the same way as slaves would have been treated prior to it's abolition. What complicates this binary separation is the appearance of black people among the ruling class. Indeed the main protaganist is an wealthy attractive biracial woman. The Fay also include black but the vast majority of main characters are white. The image of wealthy black people treating white people as slaves turns the tables in my brain on how history actually was.

If this was an actual historical drama like Bridgerton it would annoy me for being innaccurate, But it wasn't, It was yet another fantasy realm. remember, in the fantasy world (or science fiction world) anything goes. Once you are open to new experiences, you see it for what it is. Just another creative art form.



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10 Mar 2023, 6:07 pm

Actually I think the best thing to ever happen (not that it ever WILL happen) would be if Americans stopped watching movies and start to read books or go outside and do some gardening or take up a useful hobby that exercises our minds and bodies.

I'm starting to see that Hollowood has become nothing more than a mind-numbing body-killing propaganda machine. It's basically a drug pushed on us by the system to tell us how to think and to give us fake beautiful people to compare ourselves to so that we always feel like our worth as human beings is less important.

I find myself watching less tv and playing less video games these days after I had an epiphany about this when I realized my body is slowly dying from not living an active lifestyle since childhood. I have every right to blame our culture for literally worshipping the big magic box in their living rooms and bedrooms.

Racism in showbusiness aside, Americans really would be so much happier doing other hobbies and learning life skills. But clearly our government doesnt want that for us. That's what I honestly think now. :?



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10 Mar 2023, 6:10 pm

DeathFlowerKing wrote:
Actually I think the best thing to ever happen (not that it ever WILL happen) would be if Americans stopped watching movies and start to read books or go outside and do some gardening or take up a useful hobby that exercises our minds and bodies.

I'm starting to see that Hollowood has become nothing more than a mind-numbing body-killing propaganda machine. It's basically a drug pushed on us by the system to tell us how to think and to give us fake beautiful people to compare ourselves to so that we always feel like our worth as human beings is less important.

I find myself watching less tv and playing less video games these days after I had an epiphany about this when I realized my body is slowly dying from not living an active lifestyle since childhood. I have every right to blame our culture for literally worshipping the big magic box in their living rooms and bedrooms.

Racism in showbusiness aside, Americans really would be so much happier doing other hobbies and learning life skills. But clearly our government doesnt want that for us. That's what I honestly think now. :?


I agree with you, but I don't think the government is a significant contributor.

People are lazy and often overworked; they chose lazy entertainment because they don't have the time and energy to engage in more demanding leisure activities.

Think of how many people work more than full-time hours, whether at one job or two. Stressed, exhausted people choose lazy food and lazy leisure and their health suffers as a result.


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10 Mar 2023, 6:26 pm

funeralxempire wrote:
DeathFlowerKing wrote:
Actually I think the best thing to ever happen (not that it ever WILL happen) would be if Americans stopped watching movies and start to read books or go outside and do some gardening or take up a useful hobby that exercises our minds and bodies.

I'm starting to see that Hollowood has become nothing more than a mind-numbing body-killing propaganda machine. It's basically a drug pushed on us by the system to tell us how to think and to give us fake beautiful people to compare ourselves to so that we always feel like our worth as human beings is less important.

I find myself watching less tv and playing less video games these days after I had an epiphany about this when I realized my body is slowly dying from not living an active lifestyle since childhood. I have every right to blame our culture for literally worshipping the big magic box in their living rooms and bedrooms.

Racism in showbusiness aside, Americans really would be so much happier doing other hobbies and learning life skills. But clearly our government doesnt want that for us. That's what I honestly think now. :?


I agree with you, but I don't think the government is a significant contributor.

People are lazy and often overworked; they chose lazy entertainment because they don't have the time and energy to engage in more demanding leisure activities.

Think of how many people work more than full-time hours, whether at one job or two. Stressed, exhausted people choose lazy food and lazy leisure and their health suffers as a result.


Yeah that's true... i guess i forget that because Ive never had a full time job.

But yes I feel it's definetly a thing that's screwing all of us over in the long run.



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10 Mar 2023, 6:37 pm

One of the things I hate so much about movies is that they always warp the truth about everything like historic events to other people's cultures to the point that the masses who watch these movies take it all in as fact.

We need more education and less movies. :nerdy:



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10 Mar 2023, 8:33 pm

DeathFlowerKing wrote:
We need more education and less movies. :nerdy:


The anti-woke movement don't want their kids reading history. unless it's written by Ron DeSantis endorsed historians.



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10 Mar 2023, 8:37 pm

funeralxempire wrote:
People are lazy and often overworked; they chose lazy entertainment because they don't have the time and energy to engage in more demanding leisure activities.

Think of how many people work more than full-time hours, whether at one job or two. Stressed, exhausted people choose lazy food and lazy leisure and their health suffers as a result.


All true. And the older you get, the less energy you have to buy/cook fresh produce or even walk around the block (let alone doing a cardio work out in the gym).

Netflix offers a respite



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10 Mar 2023, 9:31 pm

cyberdad wrote:
DeathFlowerKing wrote:
We need more education and less movies. :nerdy:


The anti-woke movement don't want their kids reading history. unless it's written by Ron DeSantis endorsed historians.


Well to be fair when you have an actress with African heritage portraying Anne Bolyen whom everyone knows was a Caucasian Queen married to a Caucasian King of England in the middle ages that is very much an attempt to warp history just as much as what DeSantis is doing.

I don't understand why so many people don't understand that? Or perhaps they do and it proves that it's just a deliberate attempt to piss off anyone with European ancestry.

Either way I'll be sticking with actual history from history books for now on. It's more interesting than the crap they put on TV anyways and I'm tired of feeling like I'm being programmed by propaganda to think and feel a certain way. :?



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10 Mar 2023, 9:55 pm

DuckHairback wrote:
ASPartOfMe wrote:
Hollywood like any business is about profit. Whatever "woke" stuff they do stems from the belief that not doing it will hurt the bottom line.


I agree with this, however I think it's important to remember that people who get into the entertainment industry are storytellers, artists, actors - creative types. I'd doubt that many people go to Hollywood with the primary intention of making lots of money. And I'd include the financiers in that, outside of the well established franchises there are much safer investments than a movie.

I don't find it surprising that creative people lean left or appear 'woke' as some would have it. You have to be interested in people, you have to be empathetic and curious. You have to be interested in small things. You have to want to communicate, and share and connect and include. That just seems to go with the territory, to me.

Also, storytelling leans towards the underdog. Overcoming adversity and injustice are common and compelling narratives.

Some people might consider all that performative, people have said as much in this thread. But that's just a judgement of a person, an attempt to invalidate the message. I do believe that most of the time it probably comes from a good place, even if the privileges of some of Hollywood's finest makes it hard to swallow coming from them. And I include the more right-wing proponents too - the James Woods, the Clint Eastwoods - I don't doubt they believe what they're saying, I think they think if everyone thought like them the world would be better.

But, the converse of ASPartOfMe's statement would suggest that if the majority of entertainment consumers held predominantly 'anti-woke' views, there would be a market for films that spoke to them.

That's capitalism, isn't it? That's America.

So can we conclude that despite being vocal online contingent, and highly visible in traditional (dying?) media like TV and press, the 'anti-woke' must be in a minority?

Sure most actors are liberal or left. They always have been. That was true when Hollywood was putting rah rah America and racist films out because the actors are employees and have to do what their employers want.

It is all about branding. The people who consume movies are mostly younger and thus more progressive so they need to be appealed to.

But there is a market for non woke content. Most of the superhero/comic movies are not preaching people are irredeemably racist. The good guys win. The police are the good guys on all the Law and Orders, N.C.I.S's, C.S.I.'s. And Fox News has a lot better ratings than their counterparts.


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10 Mar 2023, 9:59 pm

cyberdad wrote:
Everyone who is angry at wokeness in Hollywood should realise part of the problems is us.

I'll give you two examples
Example 1. I was watching the animated version of the Witcher (A Netflix owned production) made in 2021. The tale is set in a medieval era but it's a fantasy realm. The opening scenes show a horse and carriage traversing a dirt road. The man steering from a distance was a tall bearded man with no hair dressed in an outfit that would be typical of medieval England. As the camera pans closer the bearded man looks slightly tanned but apart from that I think nothing of it. He suddenly stops the carriage to check on the passengers. He calls to them, they are his kids. This is where my brain was suddenly confronted by an image took some time to process. The three children who stuck their heads out of the window speaking perfect Oxford English were all African in appearance. I wasn't expecting it.

Did this ruin my experience? no. My brain caught up. This is a) animated b) it's a fantasy realm and c) in such a genre you can caricature characters to look like anyone. I'm sure there are many who will argue the experience is not authentic because there were no Africans in medieval England. But here's the thing. It's not England. It's a fantasy realm with a weird name. In such a realm there are no hard rules. I happily watch till the end because it's creative and fun. I am not stuck in dogma.

Example 2 - Another Netflix series called Carnival Row stars A listers Orlando Bloom and Cara Delevingne set in what looks like industrial England. Everyone speaks with a cockney accent and the leaders/rich people speak with an Oxford accent. In such a fantasy realm there are the fay. magical creatures who live among humans. The fay are treated as vermin the same way as slaves would have been treated prior to it's abolition. What complicates this binary separation is the appearance of black people among the ruling class. Indeed the main protaganist is an wealthy attractive biracial woman. The Fay also include black but the vast majority of main characters are white. The image of wealthy black people treating white people as slaves turns the tables in my brain on how history actually was.

If this was an actual historical drama like Bridgerton it would annoy me for being innaccurate, But it wasn't, It was yet another fantasy realm. remember, in the fantasy world (or science fiction world) anything goes. Once you are open to new experiences, you see it for what it is. Just another creative art form.



Just because a cast is not all white does not make a movie woke.


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10 Mar 2023, 9:59 pm

Speaking of the Anne Bolyen movie, I wonder what exactly gave anyone the idea that black women would watch it and want to be the second wife of Henry the VIII?

Her life wasnt exactly a Disney fairy tale to anybody who studies British history and knows that her father was essentially pimping her out to the king in order to gain favor while the king was still married and when Henry grew tired of her he divorced her, publicly shamed her, and had her beheaded on so many false accusations.

I think there has to be potentially better role models for black women (or women in general) than her. Why not cast aside that pasty white Elizabeth Taylor and make a Cleopatra movie starring a black actress? Or perhaps one about Nefertiti?

I know there's debate about what the actual race of the Egyptian people and these female rulers were but at the same time these were both very powerful and effective women in leadership connected to one of the greatest civilizations in Africa.

It's just a thought...