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Honey69
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15 Oct 2023, 1:04 pm

Someone else on the subject



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DBG1Wgg32Ok

Yeah, the ladies are beating our pants off.


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Honey69
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24 Nov 2023, 1:41 pm

ShoeOnHead again, "Are Women Okay?"

Answer: "No."



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X7Y1dkNVNBc


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Mona Pereth
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30 Nov 2023, 2:08 pm

ASPartOfMe wrote:
Democrats Get Warning Sign About Their Youngest Voters
Quote:
For Democrats, no single voting bloc might be more important to the party's 2024 success than Gen-Z.

Born between the late 1990s and the early 2010s, the first generation reared on the internet has come of age, with more than 30 million members of Gen-Z—the oldest of whom are now 26 years old—having reached legal voting age as of 2021. By 2028, demographers anticipate Gen-Z and their older Millennial counterparts will constitute the majority of the U.S. electorate, setting them up to have a profound influence on the direction of the country for decades to come. Early in their political lives, they've also proven to be a reliably Democratic voting bloc at a time the United States finds itself at a crossroads on issues like abortion, labor rights, and continued protections for the LGBTQ community.

A look under the hood, however, paints a more complicated picture of America's most progressive generation at a time progressives need them most. And what it means for the future isn't exactly clear.

New data shows there is a growing, gender-based rift emerging in Gen-Z between men and women fueled by economic and social strife researchers say present warning signs not only for the progressive movement but for the state of American politics.

The 2023 State of American Men survey, authored by the Washington D.C.-based Equimundo Center for Masculinities and Social Justice, says the emergent trend involves everything from an increasing sense of social isolation fueled by young Americans' increasingly online lives to the current state of the economy, all the way to fears over the onset of artificial intelligence.

In that environment, younger male voters today, the authors conclude, suffer heightened rates of depression and anxiety about their stations in life that have pushed them increasingly to the right on issues like gender inequality, threatening to upend years of progress on the issue. "Men in the U.S.," the report reads, "are in trouble."

And the data, they claim, supports that—particularly as trends show America's young women moving in the exact opposite direction.

A culture of isolation
According to the survey data, approximately two-thirds of young men feel that "no one really knows" them compared to a little more than half of elder Millennials aged 38-45, a sign they say reveals the fragility of Gen-Z males' connections and relationships.

Almost half of all members of Gen-Z had thoughts of suicide in the past two weeks, compared to just one-third of their elder Millennial counterparts. Nearly one-third reported having not had an interaction with someone outside their home in the previous week and had lower rates of physical interaction than both younger and older Millennial respondents.

And many of those young men, the report notes, live their lives online at a significantly higher rate than their older counterparts and are significantly more likely to consume content by "manosphere" figures like Andrew Tate and right-wing groups like the Proud Boys who offer unapologetic affirmations of masculinity.

A loss of solidarity
The result of that, researchers say, has been declining rates of support and positive perception among young Americans for feminist and racial justice movements that are critical for progressives.

Even though many members of Gen-Z remain likely to support progressive candidates and causes, many of America's young men, the researchers argue, are beginning to show regressive views toward women in particular that run counter to progressive policy goals.

Gen-Z males, for example, are more likely to believe men's lives are harder than women's. Younger men were also less likely to agree similarly qualified women in the workplace should be paid the same as men. And less than half, the survey found, agreed with the idea feminism "has made America a better place."

And while the insular enclaves of the internet play a large part in why, the researchers argued, the shift could be seen as a distillation of growing unease about a rapidly changing world at a time of increasing social anxiety. In dialogues over concepts like "toxic masculinity," Richard Reeves—a researcher at the Brookings Institution who recently authored a book about the state of American men—told Newsweek many feel displaced in conversations about the direction of society and therefore feel a loss of agency in that changing world.

"There's a sense the culture has gotten really good at telling these young men what not to do, but not very good at telling them what to do," Reeves told Newsweek. "They have a long list of 'don'ts' and not that can be a quite disempowering thing that creates a sense of frustration among men who do feel like they're struggling. They are struggling in school, they are struggling the labor market."

While the data shows regressive ideas about women's position in the workplace, it also demonstrates many of those young men want to see themselves as providers. But that data also needs to be placed against the backdrop of a social media environment researchers argue has grown increasingly materialistic, a U.S. economy approaching record levels of income inequality, and decreasing levels of dissatisfaction among Gen-Z workers in the workplace that feeds into those depressive feelings.

And online, Reeves said, one group more than the other is taking that male grievance—justified or not—seriously.

"The danger with this debate is it's a vicious circle," said Reeves. "If men don't feel heard, and if they don't feel like their problems or their issues are taken seriously and as seriously as the equally big problems facing women and girls, then they are more likely to start reacting negatively to the existence of a movement that is just for women. Especially when they don't see any real movement for men except on the right."

Policy solutions
While progressives will likely rely on the youth vote in 2024 and beyond, modern political movement leaders, the report's authors warn, either need to address the shift or risk exacerbating negative trends even further.

Part of that is to know what they're up against.

While groups and social media ecosystems on the left have sought to reinforce what constitutes toxic behavior among males, the report's authors argue, those on the right—whether politicians or social media influencers—have cultivated cohesive environments that serve to reinforce their subscribers' aspirational views of masculinity and shun their insecurities—helping contribute to the increasingly divergent views among America's most-online generation.

There are those figureheads of a restrictive like nouveau misogyny that will like really feed the politics of a kind of masculine antagonism," Brian Heilman, another of the report's co-authors, told Newsweek. "And I think we can say that the left hasn't necessarily done ourselves a whole lot of favors by making our narrative 'Don't be toxic. Don't be this bad thing.'"

To offset the trend, Heilman said American leaders need to find a way to invite those voices in and adopt their own brand of aspirational politics not based on grievance, he said, but optimism, giving people ownership of a culture of being authentic, caring, nurturing, and good. Some of it could be based in the workplace, helping change perceptions of interpersonally-facing jobs in growing fields like healthcare from their traditional feminine connotations to masculine ones.

underlining=mine

IMO the Left needs to start focusing much more on issues of concern to people of all races and genders, e.g. the housing crisis and taxing the rich. (We need a revival of 1950's-style taxes!)


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Honey69
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20 Dec 2023, 6:08 pm

Another article, if dated

https://law.yale.edu/sites/default/file ... _Dec08.pdf

The Wharton School, University of Pennsylvania wrote:

The Paradox of Declining Female Happiness

By many objective measures the lives of women in the United States have improved over the
past 35 years, yet we show that measures of subjective well‐being indicate that women’s happiness
has declined both absolutely and relative to men. The paradox of women’s declining relative well‐
being is found across various datasets, measures of subjective well‐being, and is pervasive across
demographic groups and industrialized countries. Relative declines in female happiness have eroded a
gender gap in happiness in which women in the 1970s typically reported higher subjective well‐being
than did men. These declines have continued and a new gender gap is emerging—one with higher
subjective well‐being for men.



So, maybe the gents don't have it as bad (compared to the ladies) as Mr. Hawley thinks.


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Honey69
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20 Jan 2024, 8:21 am



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XQqBh3q9sHY


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goldfish21
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23 Jan 2024, 2:46 pm

Skimmed both articles. Neither touch on the fact that the obesity rate in the USA is to blame for America's masculinity crisis more than politics, left or right.

High body fat composition = increased oestrogen production & decreased testosterone production.

America literally needs strong men to counter its masculinity crisis. Like literally get to work, do some manual labour, go for a jog, do some pushups, pump iron and get the man hormones flowing.

Boom; crisis averted.


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Honey69
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17 Mar 2024, 6:24 pm

More from ShoeOnHead



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D2DaJSSNmOQ


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17 Mar 2024, 7:23 pm

[opinion=mine]

The only "Crisis" men are facing is that people -- both men and women -- are standing up to abuse, ignorance, prejudice, and the dominance of culture by bullies, drop-outs, and bigots..

When a man can no longer intimidate his co-workers without losing his job, that's called a "crisis".

When a man can no longer abuse his wife and children without going to prison, that's called a "crisis".

When a man can no longer stalk or otherwise harass a woman who wants nothing to do with him without going to prison, that's called a "crisis".

When a man can no longer dictate what women can wear in public without those women rejecting him, that's called a "crisis".

When a man can no longer dictate what women can learn, and what careers they can have, without women disobeying him, that's called a "crisis".

When a man can no longer over-ride a woman's reproductive choices without that woman finding a more supportive mate, that's called a "crisis".

There is no "Masculinity Crisis"; there is only the realization that men do not control everything anymore.


[/opinion]


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ASPartOfMe
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18 Mar 2024, 8:41 am

Fnord wrote:
[opinion=mine]

The only "Crisis" men are facing is that people -- both men and women -- are standing up to abuse, ignorance, prejudice, and the dominance of culture by bullies, drop-outs, and bigots..

When a man can no longer intimidate his co-workers without losing his job, that's called a "crisis".

When a man can no longer abuse his wife and children without going to prison, that's called a "crisis".

When a man can no longer stalk or otherwise harass a woman who wants nothing to do with him without going to prison, that's called a "crisis".

When a man can no longer dictate what women can wear in public without those women rejecting him, that's called a "crisis".

When a man can no longer dictate what women can learn, and what careers they can have, without women disobeying him, that's called a "crisis".

When a man can no longer over-ride a woman's reproductive choices without that woman finding a more supportive mate, that's called a "crisis".

There is no "Masculinity Crisis"; there is only the realization that men do not control everything anymore.


[/opinion]

The problem is not as simple snowflake whiny men reacting poorly to not controlling everything although that is part of the problem. The problem is a combination of overcorrection and zero sum thinking sometimes referred to as “oppression olympics” in this realm.

We grew up in a culture with rampant sexism and misogyny both overt and causal. As we say on this site about autism, our female classmates were growing up in a world not designed for them. That messed them up big time but we did not know about it because girls were expected to keep quiet and serve us not complain to us. Those were “girls problems” to only be discussed between them if discussed at all. If somehow it was all to much for her to handle it was dismissed as being hysterical and joked about as “that time of the month”. Most of us did that in one way or another and if we deny it we are lying to others and maybe ourselves.

That is changed to a degree not fully understood by our generation. Now young men are growing up where all to often young males are not educated about these issues but shamed about who they are. While it is good that differing types of gender identities are recognized fact is that most people born male are naturally wired to be traditional males. Not only are they growing up in a world at times not designed for them but a world that too often conflates traditional masculinity with toxic masculinity. If I do need professional help now I need to wonder if the psychiatrist using those guidelines is going to try and “fix” who I naturally am.

In many academic settings and in corporations with “woke” DEI departments for writing what I just wrote I would assumed to be a male supremacist if not a rapist. If I denied I sexually abused women I would be assumed to be lying or am to chickenshit to do what I am naturally wired to do. That among other things is why men are having so many problems.

Where you see this is in the ratio of men to women in college which has reversed. Explaining this as men being exposed as fragile because they can’t control everything is as wrong as saying the low amount of women in college was because women naturally belong in the kitchen back in the day.

I should not need to say this but recognizing that men are having real issues due to real societal issues does not negate that women are having real problems because of real prejudice and stereotyping of women.


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18 Mar 2024, 8:54 am

ASPartOfMe wrote:
Fnord wrote:
[opinion=mine]

The only "Crisis" men are facing is that people -- both men and women -- are standing up to abuse, ignorance, prejudice, and the dominance of culture by bullies, drop-outs, and bigots..

When a man can no longer intimidate his co-workers without losing his job, that's called a "crisis".

When a man can no longer abuse his wife and children without going to prison, that's called a "crisis".

When a man can no longer stalk or otherwise harass a woman who wants nothing to do with him without going to prison, that's called a "crisis".

When a man can no longer dictate what women can wear in public without those women rejecting him, that's called a "crisis".

When a man can no longer dictate what women can learn, and what careers they can have, without women disobeying him, that's called a "crisis".

When a man can no longer over-ride a woman's reproductive choices without that woman finding a more supportive mate, that's called a "crisis".

There is no "Masculinity Crisis"; there is only the realization that men do not control everything anymore.


[/opinion]

The problem is not as simple snowflake whiny men reacting poorly to not controlling everything although that is part of the problem. The problem is a combination of overcorrection and zero sum thinking sometimes referred to as “oppression olympics” in this realm.

We grew up in a culture with rampant sexism and misogyny both overt and causal. As we say on this site about autism, our female classmates were growing up in a world not designed for them. That messed them up big time but we did not know about it because girls were expected to keep quiet and serve us not complain to us. Those were “girls problems” to only be discussed between them if discussed at all. If somehow it was all to much for her to handle it was dismissed as being hysterical and joked about as “that time of the month”. Most of us did that in one way or another and if we deny it we are lying to others and maybe ourselves.

That is changed to a degree not fully understood by our generation. Now young men are growing up where all to often young males are not educated about these issues but shamed about who they are. While it is good that differing types of gender identities are recognized fact is that most people born male are naturally wired to be traditional males. Not only are they growing up in a world at times not designed for them but a world that too often conflates traditional masculinity with toxic masculinity. If I do need professional help now I need to wonder if the psychiatrist using those guidelines is going to try and “fix” who I naturally am.

In many academic settings and in corporations with “woke” DEI departments for writing what I just wrote I would assumed to be a male supremacist if not a rapist. If I denied I sexually abused women I would be assumed to be lying or am to chickenshit to do what I am naturally wired to do. That among other things is why men are having so many problems.

Where you see this is in the ratio of men to women in college which has reversed. Explaining this as men being exposed as fragile because they can’t control everything is as wrong as saying the low amount of women in college was because women naturally belong in the kitchen back in the day.

I should not need to say this but recognizing that men are having real issues due to real societal issues does not negate that women are having real problems because of real prejudice and stereotyping of women.


I agree with this. It's very much become a double-edged sword.

And here's another thing to add. Men can be molested or sexually assaulted (not just by other men), AND they can be victims of abuse at the hands of their mothers and wives/girlfriends.

Yet this is largely ignored or treated as laughable by our society which shames men from coming out about this even moreso than it does women.

Sometimes I doubt "equality" is the true agenda of the woke movement.


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18 Mar 2024, 8:59 am

RedDeathFlower13 wrote:
Sometimes I doubt "equality" is the true agenda of the woke movement.

That is because the goal is equity, equality of outcome not equality of opportunity.


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18 Mar 2024, 9:06 am

ASPartOfMe wrote:
RedDeathFlower13 wrote:
Sometimes I doubt "equality" is the true agenda of the woke movement.

That is because the goal is equity, equality of outcome not equality of opportunity.


Sounds to me like "If I'm miserable I expect everyone else to be equally miserable too!"


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