Newbie losing her mind, lol.

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I really want to jump in asking for advice, but I'll do a brief intro first.

I have 2 boys and 2 girls, boys on the ends, girls in the middle. J-9 (tomorrow!), H-5, M-4, and C-new. My oldest was identified aspie by me at 4.5, by his ped. at 5, and thoroughly evaled and dx'ed just before turning 6. So we have had years of learning and growing and reading and advocating and crying and yelling and laughing and embracing and everything else involved in this life. Our younger daughter also displays traits that don't seem to qualify for a well rounded dx, and I just live under the assumption that the baby is destined to have his own interesting quirks given the history that now includes my own ADD. If he doesn't, he and the 5 year old can be the black sheep, lol.

So, on the advice front. We started celebrating J's birthday tonight with cake and presents b/c he will be away tomorrow night. I had given my sister permission to gift him with a new video game, one that he's already familiar with on a different console. Video games are probably his top obsession. His play is restricted in that he must ask permission and that it won't be granted every day, but often and more likely when he's shown a positive attitude. When he does well, life is good. When he does poorly... life sucks. The whining comes out, elevates to screaming, he does even worse in the game, the dogs start barking thinking he's in danger, the baby cries, and we have our own personal circus going on. Being this is the first time he would be playing the game on the Wii, I knew that was the route it would eventually take, but hey, it's his birthday, right? When the time comes to finally cut him off (and J knew full well it was coming), dh gets the expected raging meltdown. While not the first, this has been one of the very few times that J has physically lashed out, taking a missed swing at dh, and landing a kick. Along with that, the verbal lashing has definitely escalated. Oh, for the days of "I hate you"! Now it's rants about how we're going to kill him, how we're awful parents who deserve to be in jail when we finally do kill him. And the absolute very worst for any parent to hear, "Why *don't you just kill me?".

We have tried therapy. If I hear one more so called professional utter the word discipline, I might send J home with them. His OT and ST therapists sympathize with us and have provided us with calming techniques that work with minor meltdowns, but their specialty is limited. And we're not in an area with many (if any, judging by the ones we've seen) psychologists adequately knowledgable on AS. The ones with a slight inkling insist he just needs firm rules. They say to the mother who has been compared to Hitler on one occassion. We do generally cope well on a day to day basis and recover from our stumbling blocks and learn what to do next time. But this... this is serious stuff.

He's been cooling off in his room. Everything seems quiet. I have to go in there and try to have a rational conversation, but what's rational about this situation? I know he is sorry. He knows he was wrong. But neither of us knows how to stop it from happening again. Aside from forbidding his top obsession.

Any thoughts?

Welcome to WP!

Tim

I'm sorry things are so rough with this. You cannot let it go any further though. They get really big as they get older!

I'd try a different outlet for his frustration. Let him know you understand how upsetting it is to stop something before you are ready, but that hitting, kicking, etc. will not be tolerated. It could cost him lost time on his game.

But, you must provide an outlet....try a kickboxing bag, or a mattress thrown on the floor with pillows for him to hit, roll in, just let it all out....if you are making him aware of how much time is left(do if not), then as you tell him, start him with some deep breathing. If you think he wont do it, a trick is to get in the hearing of the person and breathe deeply(dont be irritating, lol)in, and out, making your breathing even and calm. Your breathing can actually make his do the same. I used this trick when my child was young and melting down. Once you notice this works, you will actually begin calming before he ever stops the task.

If he does good, always offer him the reward of MORE time. Rewards often outweigh anything.

good luck!
tygereyes

i've been an aspie all my life, and only recently found out. I can remember a lot of things back to age 3, and can see that i changed at some point, and got slightly worse over the years. Everything you say sounds familiar to what i went through, but maybe not as bad. i was just noticably different.

Of course don't give up doing some sort of discipline even if it doesn't appear to work, the only thing i can think i would like to have been done differently is the opportunity to work and study the same as anybody else, but i was denied that because i couldn't pass my Enlgish exams, and even once i passed my other exams thay still insisted that i retook English while taking the Advanced course. English (Stories etc) to me is 100 times harder than science, in my exams i would first write it in pencil quickly, then go thro' and check everything, writing over in pen, then checking it all again after the ink dries, while rubbing it out, this resulted in me getting 100% and the rest of my class using my exam paper to check theirs (was a mock exam in that case).

The work load and depression of having to do something i knew full well that i couldn't do resulted in me dropping out after a few months and nearly becoming homeless. Just make sure that they are not discriminated against because of their differences. Me not being able to do Advanced exams on their own after retaking English Twice is discrimination, because my unknown (at the time) disability prevented me from getting a good enough grade. Fair enough, 15 years ago as far as i know, very few people were aware of AS, even though i had being singled out and studied long before my exams, i was denied fair chances none the less.

Some of the things that have now been invented i thought of 15 years before, and was unable to make practical uses of them because i could not further my education, i am a person who has never smoked, never knowing taken drugs, hardly drunk alcohol, and hardly gone to the doctor, but my merits have gone un-noticed. I find difficulty keeping a job to save up money to do the stuff other people do so easily, the only way i know to get to the same point as other people is thro' fraud, and i really do not want to go down that route. I can see it happening, i already owe Inland Revenue thousands, because the paperwork that was required took too long to complete.

They say no two Aspies are alike, but i beleive that as long as the basics are available to your children for as long as possible then they won't miss vital opportunities.

I think my parents liberal attitude was too liberal, but maybe that was the only way they could cope with the few difficulties i presented. To let me learn my own way, i don't think they ever knew how much help i needed in order to make the most of my education, and to make sure i was not discriminated against. I don't think i would have minded them getting involved with college admisions, after all they were involved with lots of aspects in the early stages of my life. I don't think it was enough to allow me to make some decisions on my own, when it came to the few months before the beginning of a new course. My college never knew anything about my difficulties, they were only interested in what grades i was taking into them.
I wish they did know, i didn't know i was 'that' different i just thought most people were stupid extraverts, and that i was special / better than them. Other people knew i was different, and no one made sure that difference was taken into account in not discriminating.

Anyway, i'm defo an Aspie, i do go on a bit don't i!

Hope it helps

I found this really simple trick that seems to work with my daughter who is almost 9 herself (though all kids are different). It's a simple statement of "3 and 10" which means 3 deep breaths and counting to 10. It seems to give her time to put things into perspective. Sometimes I have to do it multiple times, but it has prevented a LOT of meltdowns in the last few months. After she does 3 & 10, I'll often have her go do what she needs to calm down completely (even if it is just zoning in front of the TV for a minute) and then we can talk through it together.

Positive behavior rewarding and stronger discipline just wasn't working for her and we tried therapy as well. We were at our wits end and then I read about that trick somewhere (not sure where). It has definitely worked for us.

Often kids with Asperger's don't have an alternate plan - they only see one course of action.

We use written flow charts with our 9 year old when he has calmed down. This may take him 1 hour alone in his room to calm down.

Flow chart looks like this.

eg When doing badly on computer game:

Got angry and swore and hit brother -> sent to room -> yelled and screamed and felt upset for 1 hour -> Mum, Dad, brother and himself upset

What could I have done:

Got angry with computer game -> Walked away from game and asked Dad for help -> Dad and I worked out how to get to next level on computer game -> I'm happy, Mum and Dad are happy, brother happy.


I absolutely make our 9 year old apologise after any physical violence to others in the family. But it is after he has calmed down and we have used written flow charts to problem solve.

I am calm and firm with him. I tell him his brother did not deserve to be hit and this behaviour is not acceptable.

This strategy was taught to us by Ivy Gomez, a psychologist at Tony Attwood's clinic. We are lucky to be getting help from a psychologist specialising in AS.

Good luck
Helen

Thank you, everyone, for the welcome and advice. I especially like the flow chart idea and see how that could really appeal to J. Linear thinking, visual prompts, a guideline to follow.
When I did go in to have a talk, J was resistant and it was hard to straddle the line between pushing him into another meltdown and backing off without accomplishing anything, but somehow we managed to have a productive chat. I think I may have been able to convey to him the similarities between the frustrations he feels when he can't help himself and the frustrations we feel when we can't help him. He's agreed to work together to find solutions.
J's woken up happy this morning, thrilled to be 9, and ready for some special chocolate chip pancakes. Afterward, I'm definitely going to discuss the flow chart idea with him and I'm sure he'll retreat to his room with paper and markers to turn one into a piece of art!

Great Idea , only they couldn't handle it.

Like Smelena says teaching him to stop the physical aggression is the key. Although, it is easier said than done. Some days, the physical aggerssion will be his only thought; fast relieve of uncontrollable emotions.

Just yesterday my 9 yr smashed his beloved gameboy to pieces . When asked to put it up for a little while. I am unsure if the mounting emotions regarding school may have been a contributing factor, but he has an appt w/his counsler tommorrow & I'll let her talk to him.

It may be hard during those times, but instilling guidlines and setting a system in place for transition from beloved game system to stopping it may help. Use a kitchen timer (maybe egg type) and set a time frame that in this many more minutes the game needs to go off. Before he begins playing let him know circumstances for physical aggression (i.e. not playing the game the next time he wants) but he will be rewarded for turning the game off when the timer goes off.

I hope that helps.

If video games are his top obsession, then I bet you might be better off scheduling a time for him to play each day than for it to be hit or miss. Neurologically this child is wired up to run on a plane with a certain amount of obsession and you may be adding to the anxiety and associated behavioral problems by withholding it. For some kids obsession works almost like a drug--too much or too little and functioning is out of whack but the right amount actually helps with regulation. Think of something you or someone you are close to is highly dependent upon in daily doses (coffee, chocolate, caffeinated soda, cigarettes, internet time, etc). Now think of what it would be like if someone else had complete control of if, when, how, and how much. In his situation I would be more inclined to allow play time every day but to use your control with the types of games you make available for him to play so as to keep frustration levels lower.

There's a book called "The Explosive Child" by Ross Greene that should be of help to you. Your goal of course is to help your son control his anger, but until he has the ability to do that, everything that you can do in the way of prevention should be done. Screen games for level of difficulty ahead of time, schedule play time for specific times during the day being flexible about stop time since that timer might go off in the middle of a level where he can't quit without saving, schedule game play at times so that if things go wrong it's least disruptive to the family, give warnings 15 minutes, 10 minutes and 5 minutes before quit time.

At my house the ability to watch programs or play video games with any aggression is tied into the ability to control one's own self. This wound up being a great motivator because many of the games boys eventually want to play have some level of fighting. If you can't control yourself, you don't want that programming and you don't play those games. Period.

PS Consider this a warning that Wii remotes that leave the hands of an angry child and hit the ceiling will be rendered useless for the next player.

I agree with Pippen and also think a 9 year old shouldn't have to ask permission to play his own toy. It's better to pick your battles wisely and not restrict him so much with the gameboy. My obssession as a child was reading but it wasn't as severe. I would have reacted very badly to being prevented from reading.

The egg-timer idea is a good one. Aspie children (and adults) often have difficulty with the concept of time passing. It's very stressful to be stopped suddenly in the middle of one of our favourite activities. Even now, if I've had enough other stresses, I'm liable to melt down.

Also be aware that nearly all gameboy and computer games cheat and that without the downloadable cheats from the computer are virtually impossible to win. They are set up to be frustrating and as such, are probably not a good idea to buy in the first place.

To clarify, our kids don't have unlimited time on their video stuff. When they were younger we knew we had to have some controls so we bought the units and the games as family games. We did allow daily play time however. Only now that they're older (and my one has more control on the behavior stuff) do they have their own handheld units.

This was my son. He's not an aspie (although some days ? ) he does seem to have some aspie traits probably inherited from me.

He loved/loves video games...but video games are a great source of frustration, especially new ones. We would have the bad days at school, we'd come home wanting some game time, we'd start losing the game, the whining would start, which would slowly progress into a full-fledged nuclear meltdown. My ex would start shouting, telling him he was taking away the game consoles for a week and then we now had one screaming adult, one screaming, inraged child, and me with my hands over my ears trying to block out the noise and get everyone calmed down.

The things that helped me (your mileage may vary):

At the first sign of whining get him away from the game...mandatory break time. I never made it sound like punishment...just "let's turn this off and go for a walk" or "let's play something else for a bit". Sometimes that would result in meltdown, but not nearly as bad as if you let the frustration build. Being aspie myself I know frustration = meltdown, I've learned to walk away from whatever is causing it, take a break, go outside, something my son doesn't realize he needs to do...so I try to pick up the cues.

United front or solo intervention....few parents are agreeable especially in meltdown situations...we always seem to revert to the way we were brought up and the strategies our parents used to deal with us. My ex was raised one way and I being brought up by two Aspie parents was raised much differently. Basically I'm saying if one of you can deal with him better and understand him better when things like this occur...then either unite or let one handle the situation alone with limited input from the other. My ex would escalate the situation with the shouting and by taking things away from him...left to my own I let him quiet down on his own, and it no longer escalated to a full blown war. I do have a steadfast rule that whatever is thrown in anger gets put up until we can again be calm, and if something is broken in anger it doesn't get replaced (or I take a very looong time in doing so) or if it happened to be something that wasn't his...he replaces it from his saved allowance. I like collectibles, they aren't cheap...my son now thinks twice before picking up anything and throwing it in anger. He may be enraged, but his brain is working well enough to compute the potential cost to his savings. Violence, hitting of any kind means the certain privileges are cut off for awhile...to be determined when we both cool off for awhile.


"I hate you", gets the reply "mom loves you too"...
"Why don't you just get rid of me?" is his favorite...my reply to that "because I love you and I need help with the grass when I get old"...that usually gets a smile out of him at least.
"I wish you were dead"....meets with "doesn't sound bad, maybe then I can get some silence...but I'll miss you"


My son will be 9 next spring...we still have an occasional episode....but never like before.

...thought I'd add...my son doesn't ask for permission to play his games, and I don't have a timer.

He knows that some things need to be done before game time or he can't play them...like homework, etc....and whining means mandatory break time.

Being an aspie I know how obsessed we can get with things, but I also know how enjoyable those obsessions can be ...and how they change with time. He was obsessed with video games for about a year, now I have 4 game consoles that I dust every week in the living room and I play every now and then when I get some time...his obsession at the moment is Pokemon cards.

J has a handheld, but it's not his first choice for playing. It's kind of embarassing to admit, but we have a LOT of game consoles. Dh is also an addict. They're all hooked up to the family t.v., so there's the matter of sharing screen time and choices with 5 people. We did experiment with a console in his own room, but it wasn't a good choice!

No need to be embarrassed.

1. Gameboy Advance
2. Xbox
3. Playstation 2
4. Nintendo 64
5. Dreamcast
6. Gamecube

Bunch in a bin in the cellar because I also tinker with any broken ones I find at sales....I'm a "partially" recovered addict myself...probably end up with a Wii by Christmas.