Why assume that an incel is autistic?

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Yeah, I think on WP women don't always share how difficult dating or being single is for them because, in the past, some members were quite dismissive of their struggles or they gave harmful advice. They still do, actually.

Laser beam boobies.

I am pretty wholesome, except on Thursdays.

I will say that I think men are complex, too, perhaps more complex than they let on due to different societal expectations.

Well, this is an autistic site and some autistic folk have difficulty thinking outside of themselves & their own perceptions or experiences. So that doesn't surprise me.

Haha, laser beam boobies.

It's just a bit frustrating, though, when the same female members have given them advice and compassion repeatedly.

How many women are going to feel comfortable making threads or posts that say "I'm really overweight and unattractive", or "I'm 6'2", "I kick my partners in the spine when we're in bed together, because I'm spastic", or "Hey, wanna date me? You'll need to spend a year learning about my trauma and going to physiotherapy with me first. I won't even tell you my address or surname for a few months so we'll have to meet in public with my dog."

Talking about our failures as women, the times we're been rejected or body-shamed, slut-shamed, or even virgin-shamed, can be very difficult. We have societal expectations and gender norms to fulfill just like men. It's called toxic femininity (I think, lol -- something like that ...) and it's engrained in women that these qualities make them loathsome. It's even worse when they stand the risk of men responding with comments like "You have it so easy" or "I'll do you anyway if you have a vagina ..."

It's difficult for all people to date regardless of their gender or developmental differences. I think autistic men are more comfortable saying it because everyone kind of expects them to be lonely. It's a stereotype. No one knows WTF an autistic woman is, and hearing what goes on in their minds is even more intimidating, since we tend to suffer trauma on a statistically higher level than any other segment of society.

I think that it’s better here than it used to be and part of it is because we needed to be really open for people to get it, and we have been in recent months.

I still probably wouldn’t be comfortable posting the same stuff in L&D that some of the guys do, though, because I’m sensitive about people invalidating my experience because of trauma.

I'm really grateful for the way most people have responded. I'm sure there are some people who resent the changes or they think we're ruining WP for our own selfish needs, yadda yadda yadda -- but I think they're going to be pleasantly surprised to learn we're nice people who care about everyone and not just ourselves. You've managed to infuse your trauma posts with enough humour and humility to show you're a kind person. Not everyone has unending empathy and there are likely lots of people who can't put themselves in our shoes regardless of their gender, but I still like to think these changes helping WP overall.

Thanks!

I'm glad that you get my American humor. (Inside joke.)

I think that together you and I are a killer combo, and I'm not just talking about laser beam boobies although they certainly help.

I suppose women might receive challenging responses in some threads & often men don't understand the specific emotions or perhaps trauma associated reactions that women have to their posts and thus, arguments can be created over such happenings.

Aside from anything else, some folk are concerned about privacy and care about not sharing too much on a publicly searchable forum, in any case.



Body shaming is a sad thing, as are most types of shaming really.



I met one autistic woman who changed my life's perceptions. I was friends with her a long time & the rabbit hole of issues as a woman she faced, specifically for being a woman was mind boggling.

A lot of autistic dudes probably come across as unsympathetic towards autistic women & their issues, because they cannot relate to personal experiences & cannot imagine someone else's experience without a similar personal experience at hand. I'm not excusing autistic dude's in this regard, simply commenting as to the reasons some dude's are the way they... are.

I understand that. In that case, however, those people should have enough forethought to realise they can't understand what the other person feels, and avoid causing more harm. It's rather like the oath doctors take. No one should invalidate, shame, or doubt another person's lived experience especially when it comes to gender, sexuality, or past trauma.

Autistic women have the same difficulty with empathy, at least in theory, and we haven't necessarily experienced the same situations as other women on the forum. Some of us manage to avoid threads or topics where we know we can't contribute emotional support. Other women step in and make faux-pas or blatant, purposeful jabs at people just like men do, with hurtful or invalidating quips. That's when it crosses the line. We're all old enough to self-censor and avoid hurting people, at least most of the time.

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Male incels don't make that distinction.






Male incels think if they're really nice to a female she will reward them with sex, which doesn't work.

If a female incel were to be really to a guy hoping to get rewarded with sex, I think they'd have a decent "success" rate.



The incel mentality is a trap i.e. something dangerous people fall into.



No. I mean that if a woman is attracted to women and men, but has the issues with men you describe she is able to just date women. The reverse situation is less true because there's still more of a social stigma against gays than lesbians.

Male incels are also pretty strictly hetero, not bi.



Very few guys find masturbation more satisfying than oral or penetrative sex.



I'm not endorsing it. I think the way society attacks female self-image is widespread and disturbing.

Your vision of a female incel seems to be a very different type of person from a male incel. "Incel" is short for "involuntary celibate" but there's a lot more to it than that. You seem to be describing any woman that has serious trouble finding a good man as being an incel.

I also think the problems with a lot of men being sleazy scumbags who mistreat women would be better addressed if women demanded men behaved better.

Last edited by Cornflake on 16 Aug 2023, 6:55 am, edited 1 time in total.: Removed some victim-blaming commentary

My partner has long been an incel because he's in a wheelchair and he's different (a "real incel", not a woman-hater) and this is a woman who have created the incel mouvement at first (Alana was her name) so yes, incel women do exist.
He thinks that the difference between male and female incels comes from our dominant social customs: it's very often up to the man to make the first move, and if he lacks self-confidence, he'll never get anyone.
It's unfair, but that's how it is on a large scale. The least risky way to do this is to start with a friendly approach to develop mutual trust and consequently, self-confidence.

Also, we think people have too high standards and not only women. It's understandable that you don't want someone who doesn't care about you when you've been sexually abused in the past and it is not what "high standards" mean for us.
The pressure on women is so huge that they become inhuman on glossy pages, and women's magazines with their advice on how to be attractive to men don't help (I don’t tell men don’t suffer from gender pressure).
I've already read incel forums and I can assure you that the women most of them would like to date aren't women like me, but completely unattainable women, and it's normal for these men to be intimidated and fall flat on their faces in front of them. Most of them are completely out of touch. We have to be realistic, and it's okay if we can't date Scarlet Johansson, that doesn't mean we're worthless. When I walk down the street, people in a relationship don't look like supermodels at all. I think we’re mostly random boys and girls.
Super attractive men and women are the minority and are used largely to sell dreams and make sponsorships accordingly (whether for beauty products, bodybuilding products, tools to have an agenda managed like a minister and other almost unattainable ideals). We mostly live in capitalist countries nowadays.

I once made the first move in front of a man and he called me a "whore".
I also lost my virginity when I was 18 and there was a university integration party at my 19 years old. The students were asking if there were any virgins left in the group, and that it was nothing to be ashamed of.
There were indeed still virgins, but nobody made fun of them. Good point!
When it was my turn to speak up and announce that I was no longer a virgin, nobody believed me and everyone laughed at me. It was really humiliating.
I'm now 35 and I think I'm good enough socially that no one thinks I'm sexless anymore. I don’t know if it was virgin shaming or another kind of shaming.

Just to bounce off that:

Yes, gays seem to be stigmatized more than lesbians, but this is a dominant point of view of a man who positively sees a sexual bound between two women. As a bisexual, I can assure you that it is significantly more difficult to date women than men. And I have read many lesbian women who made the same observation when they are not interested in men. I think gay culture is more assumed than that of lesbians but on the other hand, I think that male bisexuality is not represented at all.

I am honestly baffled why a person would identify as an incel, even if they are in fact, an incel.

Why?

I can't see any benefit of such a label. Apart from perhaps being part of some cultish forums online and feeling more aligned with others incels. But who would want that?!

"Incel" seems to hold favor for those who see the word/concept as a scapegoat for their lack of sexual or romantic success, or as leverage to hep them get what they want.

At least from what I recall seeing, the (Original Incels) were gross angry potatoes with the personality of steel wool and broken glass and a fixation on Alpha/Pill garbage, blaming their romantic woes on society / women, rather than their own faults and shortcomings. It continues to find favor with those who find it easier to blame "society", than their own damn selves - or those who like the idea that sex / love is "owed" to them, rather than something they might have to earn. These days some people seem to use it in place of "virgin", thinking it means the same thing (no sex).

I don't understand how we could call ourselves an incel either.
The popularization of incel stuff didn't exist too much in my country before 2016.
My partner thinks he would have been one of those if he had been single today.