Friends that don't know you well enough
15 Oct 2023, 4:52 am
If you realized that you knew a friend for over ten years and they hardly knew anything about you, how would you respond?
This friend has not done anything bad or wrong, thus far, that I know of. It's just that when I talk he doesn't (1) hear (2) care (3) understand (4) believe (5) remember. He keeps pressuring me to get a different job, and do things that sound like good strategies, but he doesn't understand the situation and he doesn't believe me when I tried to explain. That doesn't sound like a deal breaker, but the only interaction we have is email. When I email him about a lot of things, he just answers by telling me to get a better job at the same company. We do not just hang out or anything like that. Once in a while I see him at trader Joe's, but we don't have much interaction. He is 60 and I am 40. He keeps reminding me that I have a college degree, but that was 16 years ago. None of the jobs that I have gotten involved a high school diploma, much less a bachelor's degree. I keep trying to explain him about Asperger's but he acts like he knows better than me. He keeps pressuring me to tell the company that I have a degree. But home Depot is different from other companies in some ways. Home Depot is not going to just promote me for a degree that I got 16 years ago. None of the jobs at the store level require a degree. He totally overvalues the degree. He is obsessed with the degree . He has plenty of friends and I do not (monopolistic competition).
How would you deal that him? Or would you just ignore it? There is no awesome reason why he just "has" to know me very well. Besides, even my counselors and parents (when they were alive) didn't know me that well either.
He emailed me that he is "sure" none of my coworkers have degrees. (Out of 30). But he has no way to know if that is correct or not. On the other hand it doesn't matter to him if my coworkers have degrees.
He keeps emailing me things that sound encouraging and positive, but are just judgmental and I think manipulative. It shows me that he has not been paying attention to what I told him for 10 years. I have been insecure about my intelligence for a long time but he keeps telling me that I am "smart". That's judgmental and manipulative. Besides everyone is "smart" and it means nothing. Also he keeps saying "what" instead of "excuse me". He talks too much.
However he is my only "friend". Nobody is perfect and there is nothing great about me either.
Am I being unreasonable?
22 Oct 2023, 5:53 am
Based on what you have written, I think you are being a bit unreasonable. It sounds to me like he cares and wants what he thinks is best for you. He seems to genuinely think that you are smart and deserve a better job.
However, for you to be writing about it here, his way of showing caring and praise is obviously not enriching your life, so it is not unreasonable to be considering whether he is the right friend for you.
I don't understand how giving a compliment like calling you smart can be judgemental and manipulative. It sounds more like a problem on your end than his end (you don't think you're smart and you don't want others to think you are smart). The problem is that you are smart. If you have a degree, then you are smart. It's just a fact. People are intelligent in different ways and someone without a degree can also be smart. Someone with a degree can also be unintelligent in lots of ways. However, by getting your degree, you have proven you can understand, absorb complex knowledge, retain it then write about it intelligently in an exam. It also means you must have the staying power and organisational skills to complete the degree, complete and return coursework on time and study. That is something that not everybody can do.
Do you find the comment judgemental and manipulative because you think that by admitting you are smart, then you admit you are worthy of a better job, then you feel pressured to get a different job? Do you actually want a different job? If you don't want a different job, then I think the main issue is that he keeps pressuring you to get a different job. If that is the case, then firmly tell him that you are happy in your job and even if you could get a better job, you don't want it. Tell him to not mention getting a better job to you anymore. If he still pressures you after that, then he has overstepped a clear boundary and therefore is not a good friend.
Does he keep mentioning better jobs because you have been telling him you want a better job? Do you then hate him calling you smart and mentioning your degree because he makes getting a better job sound like it would be easy? Is the main problem that you feel like he doesn't understand how autism makes getting a job hard, even though you are smart and have a degree? Do you wish he could understand and commiserate with your struggles more? If this is the case, then I don't necessarily think he is being a bad friend, but the problem is he is an elderly NT with little understanding of autism. He is probably ignorant more than bad. I can understand why that can feel frustrating and invalidating. Have you tried educating him about autism and sending him things to read about how autistic people find getting jobs hard?
If he remains ignorant and refuses to listen to and empathise with your struggles then he is not a friend who can provide you with what you need. If he makes you feel very upset or angry and you think your life would be better without him in it, then dump him. If however, you still want him in your life, then accept there are some things he cannot provide and try to find an additional friend who can provide those things.
Saying what instead of excuse me is not something I would think is a big deal. However, that is because I say what instead of excuse me and so does nearly everyone I have ever met. I'm guessing you think it's rude? It's personal preference if you want to put up with that or not.
Talking too much is again something only you can decide if you want to put up with.
It sounds like you don't really like the guy. If you think your life is better without him, then dump him. If you want him in your life, then try to appreciate the things that you do like about him - the things that cause you to decide that life is better with him in it than not. However, if you only want him in your life because you don't want to be friendless but you secretly hate everything about him, then try very hard to find a different friend. I don't think it's fair on him to be wasting his time with you if you secretly hate him. I've had friends who pretended to like me before, then I found out they didn't and it was awful and I felt used.
28 Dec 2023, 11:22 pm
Granted. However, everyone is "smart". "Smart" means nothing, despite the bell curve. A community college counselor once had the nerve to tell me that "smart" means "not completely stupid". Which is like saying "strong" means "not completely weak". It is not possible to measure the quality of a job. Not everyone has the same ideal job. Not everyone is good at their jobs. Not everyone likes their jobs. Not everyone gets what they "deserve". What someone deserves, itself, is completely subjective.
However, for you to be writing about it here, his way of showing caring and praise is obviously not enriching your life, so it is not unreasonable to be considering whether he is the right friend for you.
I don't understand how giving a compliment like calling you smart can be judgemental and manipulative.
Positive judgements are just as judgemental as negative judgments. Saying someone is "smart" shows that he was judging my intelligence in the first place. I find it hard to imagine that he, or many other people, would call someone academically "smart", like a brain surgeon, "smart", to the surgeons face.
And certainly, it is not correct to say someone is "rich" because they are not completely "broke". There has to be a mean, median, mode, and standard deviation. There are plenty of ways to define and measure "intelligence" but none of them are complete or objective, per se.
It sounds more like a problem on your end than his end (you don't think you're smart and you don't want others to think you are smart). The problem is that you are smart. If you have a degree, then you are smart. It's just a fact. People are intelligent in different ways and someone without a degree can also be smart. Someone with a degree can also be unintelligent in lots of ways. However, by getting your degree, you have proven you can understand, absorb complex knowledge, retain it then write about it intelligently in an exam. It also means you must have the staying power and organisational skills to complete the degree, complete and return coursework on time and study. That is something that not everybody can do.
"Not everyone" can breathe without a respirator. That doesn't make me "healthy" because I can breathe without a respirator. I know plenty of people with masters and phds, even in STEM, that made plenty of actions and statements, that made it hard to imagine that ehad any critical thinking skills whatsoever. (Examples available upon request)
Do you find the comment judgemental and manipulative because you think that by admitting you are smart, then you admit you are worthy of a better job, then you feel pressured to get a different job?
Everyone is "smart". "Smart" means nothing and I find it kind of condescending to tell someone they're "smart". He acted like I was a small child.
Do you actually want a different job? If you don't want a different job, then I think the main issue is that he keeps pressuring you to get a different job. If that is the case, then firmly tell him that you are happy in your job and even if you could get a better job, you don't want it. Tell him to not mention getting a better job to you anymore. If he still pressures you after that, then he has overstepped a clear boundary and therefore is not a good friend.
Yes I want a better job. But I was applying for jobs for a long time and zero offers. And seriously I find it hard to imagine that any job in home Depot, or retail, is a "better" job
Does he keep mentioning better jobs because you have been telling him you want a better job?
I never told him I want a better job
Do you then hate him calling you smart and mentioning your degree because he makes getting a better job sound like it would be easy? Is the main problem that you feel like he doesn't understand how autism makes getting a job hard, even though you are smart and have a degree?
Yes, that is a problem. But the "main problem " is that he doesn't know how the office politics of home Depot are, he thinks he knows, he doesn't believe what I told him, and he keeps offering unsolicited advice, and he doesn't stop "advising" until I take his advice, he often doesn't answer my email, and when he does, it's just to tell me to get a better job. So I don't know if he even read the email at all.
Do you wish he could understand and commiserate with your struggles more?
Yes
If this is the case, then I don't necessarily think he is being a bad friend, but the problem is he is an elderly NT with little understanding of autism.
Plenty of young Ants don't know about autism and act like they know everything. 60 is not really that old and 40 is not young either. For a long time, my worthless corpse has been getting much physically weaker and slower.
He is probably ignorant more than bad.
Nobody is perfect and nobody knows everything. He is not "bad" at all, just annoying
I can understand why that can feel frustrating and invalidating. Have you tried educating him about autism and sending him things to read about how autistic people find getting jobs hard?
Never tried, but he often doesn't even answer my email so even if I tried, whatever.
If he remains ignorant and refuses to listen to and empathise with your struggles then he is not a friend who can provide you with what you need. If he makes you feel very upset or angry and you think your life would be better without him in it, then dump him.
He doesn't make me "upset" or "angry".
If however, you still want him in your life, then accept there are some things he cannot provide and try to find an additional friend who can provide those things.
After working at home Depot I don't have the time, money or energy to try to make new "friends". I want to be alone and lie down in a quiet room.
Saying what instead of excuse me is not something I would think is a big deal. However, that is because I say what instead of excuse me and so does nearly everyone I have ever met. I'm guessing you think it's rude? It's personal preference if you want to put up with that or not.
(Addressed in a different post)
Talking too much is again something only you can decide if you want to put up with.
What is talking too much, is subjective. But he doesn't appear to be paying attention when I talk. On the other hand most people don't pay attention when I talk. So maybe I am unreasonable, again
It sounds like you don't really like the guy. If you think your life is better without him, then dump him. If you want him in your life, then try to appreciate the things that you do like about him - the things that cause you to decide that life is better with him in it than not. However, if you only want him in your life because you don't want to be friendless but you secretly hate everything about him, then try very hard to find a different friend.
The coworkers at my dumpster fire "job", don't seem sophisticated enough. Some of them act like wild animals. Zero prospects.
I don't think it's fair on him to be wasting his time with you if you secretly hate him. I've had friends who pretended to like me before, then I found out they didn't and it was awful and I felt used.
What is "fair" is subjective
Not everyone likes their friends
Not everyone has the same reaction, to one thing
He is refined, wise, and sophisticated enough to deal with it. (I am not refined, wise or sophisticated enough)
28 Dec 2023, 11:31 pm
From your description, it seems like this friend may have some communication and social skills issues, and may lack a genuine understanding of your personal situation and perspectives. Here are some potential issues:
1. **Communication problems:** He may not genuinely listen to your opinions and might not understand your feelings. Using "what" instead of "excuse me" could be seen as impolite or insensitive.
2. **Overemphasis on the degree:** He might overly value the importance of a degree without truly understanding the current realities of your job. This suggests a lack of comprehensive understanding of your personal and professional development.
3. **Lack of understanding of Asperger's:** His reluctance to accept your explanation about Asperger's may indicate a lack of knowledge or a lack of tolerance for different perspectives.
4. **Excessive interference:** While his advice and concern might be well-intentioned, it seems overly assertive. This could create pressure and stress for you.
5. **Lack of deep understanding:** Despite knowing each other for ten years, he seems to have little knowledge about your life and thoughts. This could indicate difficulties in building a deeper friendship and understanding.
In the face of these issues, you might consider the following approaches:
1. **Open communication:** Try having an honest conversation with him about your concerns and how his behavior is affecting you. Share your feelings and expectations to see if it helps him better understand you.
2. **Setting boundaries:** If his advice and pressure start affecting your mental health and work, don't hesitate to set clear boundaries. Let him know you need space to manage your affairs.
3. **Seeking other support systems:** Consider finding other friends or support systems that can better understand and support your unique situation.
4. **Educating him:** If possible, provide more information about Asperger's to help him gain a better understanding of your circumstances.
5. **Self-protection:** If his behavior becomes overly negative or disruptive to your life, consider whether maintaining the relationship is worthwhile. Protecting your mental health is crucial.
Ultimately, your feelings and needs are paramount. If he is unwilling to understand and respect you, you may need to consider adjusting your relationship with him.
I think you may have some symptoms of depression, don't believe you are smart, or are unwilling to change the status quo. If possible, you should try to get rid of depression. What’s in your head may not be what you’re really thinking.
_________________
For I so loved the world, that I gave My theory and method, that whosoever believeth in Me should not be oppressed, but have a liberated life. /sarc
31 Dec 2023, 6:11 am
I'm with Twiglet on this one, he seems like he really would like to help you even if his methods aren't to your tastes.
Can I venture something? I don't want to overstep my bounds here or read something into your situation that isn't there...but I'm going to. Feel free to ignore.
It seems to me that you feel trapped in your situation and you complain about it a lot.
I suspect that this friend is trying to help you see that you're as much trapped by your beliefs as you are by the realities of your situation. He's trying to show you that you might not be able to change the realities but you can change the way you think about it and that might be the key to breaking out of the trap you're in.
The problem is that our beliefs are comfortable, even if they keep us in places where we are miserable. Changing the way we think and habitually behave is hard, maybe particularly so for those with ASD.
So I wonder if your reaction to his attempts to help you is actually a reaction to the proposition that you should change your thinking. Because that makes us feel uncomfortable. Not least because it puts the onus on us to effect the change and we've become very used to, and very comfortable, blaming our situation and those around us.
I'm not judging here, as I write I'm realising that this is exactly where I am as well and I need to take my own advice.
I don't have a friend like this guy who will listen to me moan about my life for ten years and give me encouragement and advice even if I don't listen to it and keep coming back with the same problems. I'd say try to appreciate that he can be bothered to keep trying to help you, even if you don't like the advice.
_________________
Bwark!
04 Jan 2024, 11:15 pm
His communication and social skills, while not marvelous, are much better than mine. Besides it is not possible to measure communication or social skills.
and may lack a genuine understanding of your personal situation and perspectives. Here are some potential issues:
For a long time, I often wrote him long emails about my situation. He rarely answered and when he did it was just to give me unsolicited advice. Based on his most recent email, it appears to me that he didn't read my emails. (Although things are not always the way they appear)
1. **Communication problems:** He may not genuinely listen to your opinions and might not understand your feelings.
He acted like he understood my feelings but I don't think he did. He doesn't know how I feel about dealing with customers.
Using "what" instead of "excuse me" could be seen as impolite or insensitive.
It is not possible to measure etiquette. "Logic could be used to justify anything". I see "what" as way too casual, especially for someone with as much education as him. Almost everyone I have ever interacted with says "what" and "huh" instead of "excuse me". Especially since I work at home Depot. In the middle of a homeless encampment. Not in an office. Not in high society. It particular gets on my nerves when someone bothered me first, for something totally unnecessary, and when they do not appear to be listening, or when they don't speak English or only speak Ebonics.
2. **Overemphasis on the degree:** He might overly value the importance of a degree without truly understanding the current realities of your job. This suggests a lack of comprehensive understanding of your personal and professional development.
Yes, but maybe it is unreasonable to expect him to have a "comprehensive understanding".
3. **Lack of understanding of Asperger's:** His reluctance to accept your explanation about Asperger's may indicate a lack of knowledge or a lack of tolerance for different perspectives.
He knows some things about autism. Maybe not as much as he acts like he knows
4. **Excessive interference:** While his advice and concern might be well-intentioned, it seems overly assertive. This could create pressure and stress for you.
Yes it does, even though he only communicates through email.
5. **Lack of deep understanding:** Despite knowing each other for ten years, he seems to have little knowledge about your life and thoughts. This could indicate difficulties in building a deeper friendship and understanding.
But I never tried to build "deeper friendship and understanding"
In the face of these issues, you might consider the following approaches:
1. **Open communication:** Try having an honest conversation with him about your concerns and how his behavior is affecting you. Share your feelings and expectations to see if it helps him better understand you.
My expectations might be unreasonable. What is reasonable, is subjective. Sitting around trying to have a conversation makes me uncomfortable and I wonder if he would just say something that negates my statements. Or if he refuses to change. He might claim he's right. (Denial). Annoying lil dipshits with big egos, often insist they are morally correct, despite the evidence otherwise
2. **Setting boundaries:** If his advice and pressure start affecting your mental health and work, don't hesitate to set clear boundaries. Let him know you need space to manage your affairs.
He only communicates through email so it is not imposing
3. **Seeking other support systems:** Consider finding other friends or support systems that can better understand and support your unique situation.
The coworkers at work sometimes act like wild animals and I don't even feel safe around them, physically or emotionally. I could join social gatherings but I don't have the time or energy to do so. When I am not at work usually I want to be alone and quiet
4. **Educating him:** If possible, provide more information about Asperger's to help him gain a better understanding of your circumstances. Usually he doesn't answer my email so I don't even know if he read them
5. **Self-protection:** If his behavior becomes overly negative or disruptive to your life, consider whether maintaining the relationship is worthwhile. Protecting your mental health is crucial.
He is not "disruptive ". He is not "overly negative". He's just way too *positive*. Way too optimistic and unrealistic and unreasonable
Ultimately, your feelings and needs are paramount. If he is unwilling to understand and respect you, you may need to consider adjusting your relationship with him.
Any less contact and there would be zero interaction whatsoever total
I think you may have some symptoms of depression,
Officially diagnosed clinical depression 21. Now 40.
don't believe you are smart,
Everyone is "smart". "Smart" means nothing. There has to be a bell curve, mean , median and mode. A counselor had the nerve to tell me that "smart" means "not completely stupid". How patronizing and condescending. They acted like I was a small child. Positive judgements are just as judgemental as negative judgments. Positive judgements indicate that the speaker thinks he has the moral "right" to judge
Besides, it doesn't make sense to say that someone is "strong" (physically) because they are not totally "weak". (Spectrum)
It is also factually wrong to say someone is "rich" (financially) because they are not "completely broke"
Also I really have a hard time imagining that he would tell someone academically smart, like a neuroscientist, that they are "smart"
IQ tests are not necessarily complete and accurate measurements of intelligence, but to say that everyone is "smart" because they are not completely "stupid" is ridiculous
Also I think some of the counselors had really big egos and *confidence not proportional to competence*. They grossly overestimated their value, intelligence and character qualities. They hardly ever think deep thoughts. They just sit around flapping their traps
or are unwilling to change the status quo.
If you try to improve something you might unintentionally make it worse.
If possible, you should try to get rid of depression. Been on a couple antidepressants. Too many side effects. Cognitive behavioral therapy, counselor did not tell me one original statement in two years. And I didn't get the feeling that she had any critical thinking skills. She was just way too dramatic. Other counselors were even worse
What’s in your head may not be what you’re really thinking.
04 Jan 2024, 11:26 pm
I had mild symptoms of depression and mistakenly believed that all my roommates were bullying me, and when my symptoms subsided, I would see only one or two doing so.
So when I see your depression results, I believe most of those strong negative emotions are from depression. Depression is primary, bad friends are secondary. At the same time, I often see you talking about bad situations you face, and I know it is very difficult and you need to treat your depression and find good friends again.
It's difficult, but it's the only way, I guess
Hug, feel your pain
_________________
For I so loved the world, that I gave My theory and method, that whosoever believeth in Me should not be oppressed, but have a liberated life. /sarc
15 Jan 2024, 10:42 pm
belijojo
"I know it is very difficult and you need to treat your depression and find good friends again.
It's difficult, but it's the only way, I guess"
I can't find "good friends again" because I never had them before. ("again").
"it's the only way"? Been clinically depressed since 13. Officially diagnosed 21. Now 40. "life" goes on.
Clinical depression is a diagnosis, not an emotion.
Happiness is just an emotion. Some precious lil "people" act like every time they are not happy, it's proof that someone violated their "rights". Those precious lil "people" are totally self righteous and "holier than thou". Some of those precious lil "people" are very successful, worldly, functional, social, and et cetera, and there are so many of them.
outnumbered overpowered outsmarted
After working @ Home Depot, I don't have the time, money or energy to find "good friends". (not to say that i had the time, money or energy to find "good friends" before working @ home depot or at any other time.)
Precious lil "people" that appeared, to me, like "good friends", ended up like "things are not always the way they appear."
17 Jan 2024, 2:02 pm
I have had friends who thought they knew me more than I knew myself and who made assumptions about me. Usually people like that otherwise have had no time for me.
I associated with a couple for years who did not take their time to get to know me. They assumed that all my behaviors and actions were related to me being autistic.
On the flipside, I have assumed things about other people and how they should live their lives. However, we didn't know each other.
21 Jan 2024, 5:15 pm
Have you asked him if any of his friends know anyone who would be willing to hire you for a better job?
If he is so confident that your degree will enable you to get a better job, then maybe he can help you find one?
_________________
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21 Jan 2024, 8:04 pm
mona
he has been connected to my linkedin profile for a couple years.
ten years ago, for one year, he told me about a volunteer job, babysitting, for his wife. about, 20 two to four year olds. worked once a month, for four hours at a time. didn't do anything particular or difficult. didn't particularly like it either. way too social. but nobody gave me a hard time, (unlike home depot). he said that the company was going to choose someone to hire, for a paying job, at the end of the school year. it turned out he choose his son.
what is a "better" job, is subjective. better paying, is objective. a "better" job for me is not the same as a "better" job for someone else.
he keeps peer pressuring me to get a better job @ home depot. he kept e-mailing to tell me
"Tell Home Depot, you have a bachelor's degree. Plus several years of accounting classes and accounting internships.
And most of all, you are incredibly detail oriented. Tell them you have years of experience nobody else can come close to working as cashier or head cashier. Tell them they are wasting your talents by abusing your health in the parking lot. Tell them you could be making a much bigger contribution in a job like bookkeeper."
"Abusing your health"? Plenty of jobs are bad for your health. Lot Attendant is bad for your health. But I knew about that before taking the job. His proposal that I the above quotation, makes it sound like he has no clue about (1) home depot's nepotism (2) autism (3) Lot Attendant might be the least wrong job, for me, @ home depot. Cory made it sound like my formal education gave me a moral right to get a "better" job. besides, @ the store level, nobody working at home depot is required to have a bachelor's degree. if someone has a bachelor's degree, home depot does not take that into account when deciding which job to hire them for or how much to pay them.
21 Jan 2024, 8:13 pm
I associated with a couple for years who did not take their time to get to know me. They assumed that all my behaviors and actions were related to me being autistic.
On the flipside, I have assumed things about other people and how they should live their lives. However, we didn't know each other.
_____________________________________________________________
some assumptions are necessary, subconscious, involuntary, or natural. sometimes, making a factually wrong assumption does not hinder/harm anything. sometimes, it is not practical to make zero assumptions. sometimes, it is necessary to make decisions in real time. nobody is perfect. (fine).
however, there is no great reason why Cory just "had" to assume that none of the other Lot Attendants had college degrees. especially since, some news articles claimed that some physicians, ended up as imposters/quacks. if those actors could "fool" some physicians, that they were, indeed, physicians, then it would be much easier for someone to claim to have a Bachelor's degree, and not have one. people with Bachelor's degrees do not get tattoos on their foreheads that proclaim that fact. it is not possible to know, from looking @ someone, what kind of degree they have. and cory hasn't even seen the other lot attendants.
besides, "any of the other lot attendants". he doesn't even know how many lot attendants there are. (it sounded like he meant the home depot i work @). if one out of thirty lot attendants had a bachelors degree, then the whole statement is false.
cory has a master's in Math. you would think someone so academically refined and sophisticated, would have better critical thinking skills, than to make those statements and assumptions.
22 Jan 2024, 12:49 am
he has been connected to my linkedin profile for a couple years.
ten years ago, for one year, he told me about a volunteer job, babysitting, for his wife. about, 20 two to four year olds. worked once a month, for four hours at a time. didn't do anything particular or difficult. didn't particularly like it either. way too social. but nobody gave me a hard time, (unlike home depot). he said that the company was going to choose someone to hire, for a paying job, at the end of the school year. it turned out he choose his son.
Still, since he continues to express concern about your job situation and he has stayed in touch with you all this time, it seems to me that you are entitled to ask his help in finding a different job somewhere other than Home Depot.
He evidently is ignorant about Home Depot, but he might have friends who could help you find a job somewhere else. It can't hurt to ask him, it seems to me.
_________________
- Autistic in NYC - Resources and new ideas for the autistic adult community in the New York City metro area.
- Autistic peer-led groups (via text-based chat, currently) led or facilitated by members of the Autistic Peer Leadership Group.
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