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Cancel Culture and Israel-Hamas War

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TwilightPrincess
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27 Jan 2024, 7:57 pm

^ Your bias is still showing. :wink:

I’m not sure how anyone could be firmly on Team Israel at this point, not unless they are extremely…selective in the sources they are reading/viewing.

44% is not the entire population. Support for Hamas has been up and down as various polls have demonstrated. Even if people voted for them, it doesn’t mean that they deserve the current genocide or ongoing oppression. We’re talking about CIVILIANS here.

Maybe we wouldn’t be especially fond of Israel if we grew up in Palestine. :chin:


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funeralxempire
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27 Jan 2024, 8:09 pm

Imagine not supporting the only entity actively resisting the people who've been occupying your country since the 40s, who turned it into the world's largest concentration camp and openly talk about their plans to displace or eradicate your people.


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funeralxempire
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27 Jan 2024, 8:10 pm

cyberdad wrote:
I simply can't believe if HAMAS runs on a platform of destroying the state of Israel that any of the 44% didn't know what it was they were voting for??


Hamas largely ran on an anti-corruption platform.


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cyberdad
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27 Jan 2024, 9:00 pm

TwilightPrincess wrote:
44% is not the entire population. Support for Hamas has been up and down as various polls have demonstrated. Even if people voted for them, it doesn’t mean that they deserve the current genocide or ongoing oppression. We’re talking about CIVILIANS here.:


Are you claiming the Palestinian population (specifically the 44%) did not know what HAMAS stood for? HAMAS have always been transparent since its creation in December 1987, Hamas has invoked militant interpretations of Islam to spearhead a Sunni extremist movement committed to destroying Israel. How is this biased to state what is obvious to every Palestinian living in Gaza??

This does not mean Israel should target civilians (this was always wrong) but does the IDF have a choice? (despite whatever historical pretext you want to invoke) when trying now to rescue hostages and dismantle HAMAS to clearly demarcate who is civilian and who is HAMAS?

I think this 44% of Palestinian civilians (last time I checked = 300,000 Palestinians) will have to make a decision to stop supporting terrorism and cooperate with the government of Israel.



funeralxempire
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27 Jan 2024, 9:02 pm

cyberdad wrote:
TwilightPrincess wrote:
44% is not the entire population. Support for Hamas has been up and down as various polls have demonstrated. Even if people voted for them, it doesn’t mean that they deserve the current genocide or ongoing oppression. We’re talking about CIVILIANS here.:


Are you claiming the Palestinian population (specifically the 44%) did not know what HAMAS stood for? HAMAS have always been transparent since its creation in December 1987, Hamas has invoked militant interpretations of Islam to spearhead a Sunni extremist movement committed to destroying Israel. How is this biased to state what is obvious to every Palestinian living in Gaza??

This does not mean Israel should target civilians (this was always wrong) but does the IDF have a choice? (despite whatever historical pretext you want to invoke) when trying now to rescue hostages and dismantle HAMAS to clearly demarcate who is civilian and who is HAMAS?

I think this 44% of Palestinian civilians (last time I checked = 300,000 Palestinians) will have to make a decision to stop supporting terrorism and cooperate with the government of Israel.


How can they cooperate with an entity that seeks to murder and/or displace them? The Israeli government demonstrates their genocidal intent on a daily basis. What cooperation can even be had with such an entity?


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TwilightPrincess
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27 Jan 2024, 9:09 pm

Cooperate with the Israeli government? :lol:


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funeralxempire
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27 Jan 2024, 9:14 pm

TwilightPrincess wrote:
Cooperate with the Israeli government? :lol:


I think that means hiring a bulldozer to level your family home, murdering your children and not waiting for Mossad to drug and SA your wife before you start telling them what they want to hear.

Show Spoiler
Quote:
But in the case of women’s hair salons, there was another, much more immediate factor. During the ‘80s, Israeli intelligence agents began taking advantage of their existence to spike the sweet tea with knock-out drugs, and take nude pictures of women so as to blackmail their husbands into turning collaborator or informant. So now women’s salons exist, but they’re not visible from the street, and women no longer take tea from strangers.
...
In this case, however, the rumor turns out to be at least partly true. Someone put up a web page for Mossad agents with guilty consciences to make anonymous confessions. And one did, indeed, make reference to drugging the tea in hair salons.

https://davidgraeber.org/articles/hosti ... west-bank/


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cyberdad
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27 Jan 2024, 9:18 pm

TwilightPrincess wrote:
Cooperate with the Israeli government? :lol:


No time like the present. Give up supporting a military solution (which is what supporting HAMAS means).



TwilightPrincess
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27 Jan 2024, 9:23 pm

funeralxempire wrote:
TwilightPrincess wrote:
Cooperate with the Israeli government? :lol:


I think that means hiring a bulldozer to level your family home, murdering your children and not waiting for Mossad to drug and SA your wife before you start telling them what they want to hear.

Show Spoiler
Quote:
But in the case of women’s hair salons, there was another, much more immediate factor. During the ‘80s, Israeli intelligence agents began taking advantage of their existence to spike the sweet tea with knock-out drugs, and take nude pictures of women so as to blackmail their husbands into turning collaborator or informant. So now women’s salons exist, but they’re not visible from the street, and women no longer take tea from strangers.
...
In this case, however, the rumor turns out to be at least partly true. Someone put up a web page for Mossad agents with guilty consciences to make anonymous confessions. And one did, indeed, make reference to drugging the tea in hair salons.

https://davidgraeber.org/articles/hosti ... west-bank/

Yeah, that’s what I thought it meant. Being able to afford hiring a bulldozer might be a problem. I wonder if Biden would help fund that. :chin:

Trigger Warning
Show Spoiler
I voted for him. :cry:


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Last edited by TwilightPrincess on 27 Jan 2024, 9:26 pm, edited 1 time in total.

funeralxempire
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27 Jan 2024, 9:25 pm

cyberdad wrote:
TwilightPrincess wrote:
Cooperate with the Israeli government? :lol:


No time like the present. Give up supporting a military solution (which is what supporting HAMAS means).


No time like the present to stop resisting a genocidal occupying regime. :roll:

Maybe Israel can stop their occupation and stop colonizing Palestine. If they want to see Hamas no longer exist and not get replaced they need to stop creating the circumstances that make resistance groups necessary. Until they do that they're inevitably going to have to deal with resistance.


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funeralxempire
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27 Jan 2024, 9:26 pm

TwilightPrincess wrote:
Show Spoiler
I voted for him. :cry:


It's still better than voting for the other guy. :lol:


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TwilightPrincess
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27 Jan 2024, 9:29 pm

funeralxempire wrote:
TwilightPrincess wrote:
Show Spoiler
I voted for him. :cry:


It's still better than voting for the other guy. :lol:

Probably true. :lol:

I really wanted Bernie.


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cyberdad
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27 Jan 2024, 9:34 pm

funeralxempire wrote:
Maybe Israel can stop their occupation and stop colonizing Palestine. If they want to see Hamas no longer exist and not get replaced they need to stop creating the circumstances that make resistance groups necessary. Until they do that they're inevitably going to have to deal with resistance.


Of course Israelis should stop voting for right wing governments (on this I agree) but whenever there is a chance for long lasting peace (like with Yitzakh Rabin) the Palestinians have a habit of starting interfadas. Peace or moderation from Israel is a seen as a weakness and opportunity for retribution.



funeralxempire
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27 Jan 2024, 9:40 pm

cyberdad wrote:
funeralxempire wrote:
Maybe Israel can stop their occupation and stop colonizing Palestine. If they want to see Hamas no longer exist and not get replaced they need to stop creating the circumstances that make resistance groups necessary. Until they do that they're inevitably going to have to deal with resistance.


Of course Israelis should stop voting for right wing governments (on this I agree) but whenever there is a chance for long lasting peace (like with Yitzakh Rabin) the Palestinians have a habit of starting interfadas. Peace or moderation from Israel is a seen as a weakness and opportunity for retribution.


As long as Israelis remain the aggressor it's hard to blame Palestinians for fighting for the right to exist and to not be removed from their traditional lands by colonizers.

Every aspect of the occupation is intended to make day-to-day life unbearable and encourage people to resettle elsewhere. Forced migration and mass slaughter are Israel's main tools for dealing with the people who's land they occupy and we wonder why violent resistance occurs. Who wouldn't fight back in that situation?

You can't be pro-Israel without condoning Israel's genocidal practices. Every time a poster on here offers up excuses for Israel's actions they're demonstrating themselves to be pro-genocide in practice. When people wrap themselves in the flag of a genocidal regime or continually offer excuses for genocidal actions they're apologists for genocide.

https://davidgraeber.org/articles/hosti ... west-bank/


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cyberdad
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27 Jan 2024, 11:33 pm

funeralxempire wrote:
Every time a poster on here offers up excuses for Israel's actions they're demonstrating themselves to be pro-genocide in practice. When people wrap themselves in the flag of a genocidal regime or continually offer excuses for genocidal actions they're apologists for genocide.

https://davidgraeber.org/articles/hosti ... west-bank/


I am not pro-genocide. But I believe Israelis live in a hostile environment bordered by hostile nations. I can understand the paranoia and fear that average Israelis live under, not knowing when a missile or bomb is going to go off in their neighbourhood. All Oct 7 did was increase that paranoia.

Waving fingers and saying Tsk tsk to the Israelis ins't going to change their resolve. This is not apartheid South Aftrica where the white folk came to directly profit from the enslavement of cheap exploited black labour. The Israelis came to this country to escape persecution in Europe (ironically from white Europeans). I think deep down they just want to live in peace.



funeralxempire
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27 Jan 2024, 11:39 pm

cyberdad wrote:
funeralxempire wrote:
Every time a poster on here offers up excuses for Israel's actions they're demonstrating themselves to be pro-genocide in practice. When people wrap themselves in the flag of a genocidal regime or continually offer excuses for genocidal actions they're apologists for genocide.

https://davidgraeber.org/articles/hosti ... west-bank/


I am not pro-genocide. But I believe Israelis live in a hostile environment bordered by hostile nations. I can understand the paranoia and fear that average Israelis live under, not knowing when a missile or bomb is going to go off in their neighbourhood. All Oct 7 did was increase that paranoia.

Waving fingers and saying Tsk tsk to the Israelis ins't going to change their resolve. This is not apartheid South Aftrica where the white folk came to directly profit from the enslavement of cheap exploited black labour. The Israelis came to this country to escape persecution in Europe (ironically from white Europeans). I think deep down they just want to live in peace.


I'm not pro-genocide, I'm just willing to offer excuses and deflections from an ongoing genocide because I sympathize more strongly with the perpetrators than their victims.

Israel should be sanctioned just like Russia at the very least and our failure to do so shows a willingness to apply double-standards. Ultimately, the west is humiliating itself and displaying extreme hypocrisy. We have no moral high ground as long as we make excuses for genocide.


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