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ASPartOfMe
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25 Oct 2023, 6:55 pm

Hamas attacks on Israel bring cancel culture hypocrisy to college campuses by Cathy Young for Newsday
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Shortly after the horrific Hamas attacks that killed some 1,300 Israelis, most of them civilians, some 30 progressive groups at Harvard University released a widely deplored statement that not only urged solidarity with Palestinians but pinned the entire blame for the massacre on Israel itself. Now, some business leaders are demanding that Harvard release the names of the student activists involved in these groups in order to block their post-graduation hiring. Meanwhile, the president of the New York University Student Bar Association has already lost a job offer from a large international law firm over a statement in which she said that Israel “bears full responsibility” for the loss of life.

Is this a form of “cancel culture,” but this time directed at supporters rather than opponents of left-wing social justice causes? Are defenders of "politically incorrect" speech, regardless of how provocative it may be, being hypocritical when the shoe is on the other foot? Are social justice advocates who once claimed that losing your job for offensive speech was simply a matter of “consequences” and “accountability” taking a different view when the offensive speech is in their own camp?

As with many political disputes, there’s plenty of hypocrisy and double standards to go around. But the claim that prominent free speech defenders and “cancel culture” critics are nowhere to be seen when progressive extremists are the ones being canceled is simply wrong. For instance, writer Thomas Chatterton Williams, one of the strongest critics of intellectual intolerance during the racial justice protests in the summer of 2020, has a new article in the Atlantic vocally defending freedom of even repugnant speech — such as pro-Hamas rallies — in the wake of the terror attacks in Israel. One can find many other examples.

At the same time, very few critics of “cancel culture” have ever argued that no one should ever suffer stigma and ostracism — including loss of professional opportunities — for offensive speech. While the government should never censor speech outside of imminent threats of violence, people and organizations can refuse to be associated with hateful or repugnant views. But social norms in a free society should also encourage tolerance for a broad range of opinions and keep such shunning to a minimum. There’s a big difference between firing someone for criticizing Black Lives Matter and firing someone for praising the Ku Klux Klan.

This distinction between controversial views on the one hand, and extreme and hateful views on the other, should be one that we keep in mind in exchanges about Israel and Palestine. No one should be silenced or punished for advocating for Palestinian rights. But one can find many examples of people excusing or even celebrating the Hamas attacks.

As for the Harvard students, some of whom are already saying that they signed the anti-Israel statement without knowing what was in it, they can get a pass for being young and reckless. But this should be a teachable moment about many important things — from the importance of forgiveness to the danger of knee-jerk solidarity with extremist causes.


This is not new. Many state and local governments have been ending grants to companies, and defunding programs where that support BDS for years now.


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RetroGamer87
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25 Oct 2023, 7:10 pm

Cancel culture has been used by both the left and the right for years now and yet each side wants us to think that only the other side ever does it.


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Fnord
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25 Oct 2023, 7:37 pm

ASPartOfMe wrote:
. . . one can find many examples of people excusing or even celebrating the Hamas attacks.
Right here, on this very website.


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TwilightPrincess
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25 Oct 2023, 7:38 pm

Where? I've not seen that.


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RetroGamer87
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25 Oct 2023, 7:44 pm

I always suspected the left has an anti-semitic streak


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Dox47
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25 Oct 2023, 7:47 pm

I'll be honest; I can construct a set of mental gymnastics where I claim that this is somehow different than the cancel culture I normally decry, but I'm not going to, I'm going to own the fact that I'm a proud hypocrite on this one, having warned these people for years that setting this norm was going to blow up in their faces at some point. Intellectually, I'm against these firings and blacklistings, but I'm not really upset about them, quite the opposite.


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funeralxempire
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25 Oct 2023, 7:49 pm

Fnord wrote:
ASPartOfMe wrote:
. . . one can find many examples of people excusing or even celebrating the Hamas attacks.
Right here, on this very website.


Evidence please.


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TwilightPrincess
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25 Oct 2023, 7:50 pm

RetroGamer87 wrote:

Most people on the left that I've come in contact with, including myself, cared about people on both sides of the conflict. It doesn't need to be either/or.

The article you posted doesn't really demonstrate how most people on the left feel because it contains no large surveys or studies.


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Fnord
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25 Oct 2023, 8:05 pm

funeralxempire wrote:
Fnord wrote:
ASPartOfMe wrote:
. . . one can find many examples of people excusing or even celebrating the Hamas attacks.
Right here, on this very website.
Evidence please.
Look around.  Any post that blames Israel for being attacked by Hamas, or that implies Israel deserved to be attacked, or that implies Israel has no right to retaliate in defense of itself is a post that excuses the Hamas attack.


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funeralxempire
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25 Oct 2023, 8:07 pm

Fnord wrote:
funeralxempire wrote:
Fnord wrote:
ASPartOfMe wrote:
. . . one can find many examples of people excusing or even celebrating the Hamas attacks.
Right here, on this very website.
Evidence please.
Look around.  Any post that blames Israel for being attacked by Hamas, or that implies Israel deserved to be attacked, or that implies Israel has no right to retaliate in defense of itself is a post that excuses the Hamas attack.


So, you don't have any examples but they're also everywhere? :chin:


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TwilightPrincess
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25 Oct 2023, 8:11 pm

Perhaps by “defend itself,” he means kill thousands of innocent Palestinians. :chin: Perhaps we have different notions of self defense.

According to the U.N., from 2008 up until before the recent war:

Quote:
6,407 Palestinians and 308 Israelis had been killed in the ongoing conflict.

The large number of civilian casualties has required various types of interventions by humanitarian actors, with many incidents raising concerns over violation of international law and lack of accountability


https://www.ochaopt.org/data/casualties


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Fnord
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25 Oct 2023, 8:15 pm

funeralxempire wrote:
Fnord wrote:
funeralxempire wrote:
Fnord wrote:
ASPartOfMe wrote:
. . . one can find many examples of people excusing or even celebrating the Hamas attacks.
Right here, on this very website.
Evidence please.
Look around.  Any post that blames Israel for being attacked by Hamas, or that implies Israel deserved to be attacked, or that implies Israel has no right to retaliate in defense of itself is a post that excuses the Hamas attack.
So, you don't have any examples but they're also everywhere?
No, there are just too many to search and link to here.

How sad that those who cannot refute the message often resort to attacking or impugning the messenger.


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TwilightPrincess
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25 Oct 2023, 8:16 pm

Who has done that?


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Fnord
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25 Oct 2023, 8:19 pm

TwilightPrincess wrote:
Perhaps by “defend itself,” he means kill thousands of innocent Palestinians. Perhaps we have different notions of self defense.
My notion of self-defense includes retaliating against terrorists and the people who support them.

Hamas IS the Palestine government, which is supported by the Palestinian citizens.  They are all complicit.

If Hamas did not want Palestinian children to die as collateral damage, then they should not have attacked Israel.

Or maybe they just don't car who dies, as long as Israelis die too.


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funeralxempire
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25 Oct 2023, 8:25 pm

Fnord wrote:
funeralxempire wrote:
Fnord wrote:
funeralxempire wrote:
Fnord wrote:
Right here, on this very website.
Evidence please.
Look around.  Any post that blames Israel for being attacked by Hamas, or that implies Israel deserved to be attacked, or that implies Israel has no right to retaliate in defense of itself is a post that excuses the Hamas attack.
So, you don't have any examples but they're also everywhere?
No, there are just too many to search and link to here.

How sad that those who cannot refute the message often resort to attacking or impugning the messenger.


There's another accusation without any evidence. :lol:


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戦争ではなく戦争と戦う


TwilightPrincess
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25 Oct 2023, 8:27 pm

^^ You are entitled to your opinion but, once again, not everyone has the same views when it comes to self-defense as you do.

The killing of innocent people, especially children - Israeli, Palestinian, or whoever else - is NEVER okay IMO, but we all have different takes when it comes to morality and ethics.

Implying that I’m excusing Hamas because I disapprove of the IDF’s behavior is both not true AND not okay.


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