Can't conceive of serial monogamy

Page 1 of 2 [ 26 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next

bee33
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 19 Apr 2008
Age: 60
Gender: Female
Posts: 2,540

18 Nov 2023, 11:23 pm

Although some people only have one partner their whole life, the most common way for humans to have partners is serial monogamy. They have a relationship, it ends (after a short or long time) and then that relationship is completely over and the two people often don't even stay in touch, or if they have to because they have kids, it's often uncomfortable, and then they just move on to another relationship, and maybe that one too will end, and they move on to another.

I cannot conceive of that. If I love someone, it's forever. If that relationship ends (because the other person wants it to, because I never would, unless maybe I realize the relationship was a mistake from the beginning or I realize the other person is not who I thought they were, but these are all hypotheticals because it has never happened), I still love that person, forever. I can get into another relationship, but I will not stop loving the first person, I will just add to the people I love by loving the second one too, and so on.

How do people just shed someone they love? To me a long-term relationship is the same as family. I'm not going to suddenly decide I no longer love my mother or father or sister or nephew. That would be horrific. (Unless there's something very serious happening, like abuse, but that has never happened to me, and my understanding is that even if people have to become estranged from family members who are abusive they often continue to love them, and sometimes they will try to still have some kind of relationship while protecting themselves from being traumatized and hurt.) But barring something extreme like that, I can't imagine withdrawing my love and stop loving someone.

Which means that just about all relationships that people have are incomprehensible to me. And that it's very difficult to form a new relationship when the new person feels threatened or confused by the deep love I still feel for a previous partner or partners.

I've read that autists are very loyal and devoted. And inflexible to the point perhaps of being unable to change one's feelings? Is this what that is?



FleaOfTheChill
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 31 Jul 2020
Age: 309
Gender: Non-binary
Posts: 3,064
Location: Just outside of reality

18 Nov 2023, 11:37 pm

I can't wrap my head around serial monogamy either, though my reasons are different than yours. I'm poly by nature, though capable of being monogamous when a partner I value requires it for their sense of security. I look at it like this.. I have multiple children. I never loved my oldest less when my next child came along and so on. Care for one person doesn't somehow take away or deplete my ability to care for another. I think it's crazy that people seem to think it does. If I say I'm there for someone, value them, respect them, care for them...then I mean it. No one else can take away from that. I have the capacity in me to value more than one person at a time. It seems weird to me that others cannot grasp that concept or that it would hurt them. Further, the people we've been invested in in the past shape who we are in the present. I wouldn't want someone I was with to forget or stop having feeling for someone who mattered to them because that person helped make them the amazing person they are today. I find it all rather bizarre that people get so bent out of shape over such things.

I can change my feelings. I am twice divorced for a reason. I no longer care for those people in the same ways as I once did. But for me, my mental health and wellbeing was more important to me than staying with the person and sucking up the continual hurt. I will never forget those people and will always know on what made them amazing to me once, but those seasons are over now and I'm at peace with that. I guess it was easy for me to move on because of those sorts of circumstances...or maybe harder, depending on your perspective. But I think I'd be annoyed by anyone who would not appreciate the impact my past relationships have had on me, for better or worse. Is it autism that makes me think this way? I dunno. But I think it's realistic. The past does shape our present and we can't deny that. My two cents.



nick007
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 4 May 2010
Age: 41
Gender: Male
Posts: 27,353
Location: was Louisiana but now Vermont in the police state called USA

19 Nov 2023, 5:09 am

I get what you guys mean. I still love both my exes but I know that we are better off not being in each others lives. We broke up because we both had various issues & there's too much bad history for me to get back together with either of them if I suddently became single again & had the opprotunity to. If I could go back in time I would off myself before getting in my first relationship so I would not have caused the problems for her or made her problems worse. Realistically I know the best I can do is to try & learn from things so the problems won't repeat. My current relationship is going well for the most part & learning from the experience of my previous two relationships is partly why. That said, I also get why a partner might feel insecure or jelly about it. I know I talk about my exes a lot in this section but I don't talk about them or bring them up a lot with my current gf. She's cool about me mentioning them & I'm cool about her mentioning her exes. However constantly talking about my exes would give the impression that I will never move on & will always constantly compare them to my current gf or future relationship partners. I think lots of people still love, care about, & think about their exes but don't want to admit it for similar reasons.


_________________
"I don't have an anger problem, I have an idiot problem!"
~King Of The Hill


"Hear all, trust nothing"
~Ferengi Rule Of Acquisition #190
https://memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/Ru ... cquisition


Last edited by nick007 on 19 Nov 2023, 9:37 am, edited 1 time in total.

IsabellaLinton
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 1 Nov 2017
Gender: Female
Posts: 70,400
Location: Chez Quis

19 Nov 2023, 8:14 am

I've had serial monogamy and shed people from my life, but I didn't really love them. I thought I did for short periods of time but they became abusive, and I was with them because of codependence, or fear, or even for legal reasons like not being able to get them the f**k out of my house.

The people I have truly loved have been "forever" as you describe and those feelings don't end. I'm loyal to a fault and very honest in my relationships like you describe for other autistic people. I've never had to "move on" and forget about someone. My partner is a widower so he had to "move on" to a certain extent in grief although it's still a big part of his life. He still goes to therapy for bereavement, so that helps him to be able to love us both.


_________________
And in the end, the love you take is equal to the love you make.


Stalk
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 19 Jul 2012
Age: 45
Gender: Male
Posts: 2,132

19 Nov 2023, 3:02 pm

Females in a group synchronise their cycle. Or in other words, some female's cycle changes, while one will not. The one who doesn't is the alpha female. When the alpha female is ovulating, all the other females have to be ready to mate. So by nature's design, the alpha female chooses the alpha male. When she is ready all of them should be ready so that they can all conceive at the same time.

As much as we would like to think we are human, monogamy was never in our animalistic design. So alpha male couldn't even be monogamous even if they tried. That leaves all the non alpha males at the bottom of the food chain. I'm sad for both male and female. Males if not alpha will forever be at the bottom and lower ranking females will forever be toeing the line of the alpha female.

So I see serial monogamy as some way to play by the rules of "society".

anthropomorphising what we see in nature is apparently bad. But humans have these sophisticated mannerisms that when zoomed out seems pretty much just like the ordinary mammal going about their usual business.



Lost_dragon
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 6 May 2017
Gender: Female
Posts: 2,825
Location: England

20 Nov 2023, 1:29 pm

Stalk wrote:
Females in a group synchronise their cycle. Or in other words, some female's cycle changes, while one will not. The one who doesn't is the alpha female. When the alpha female is ovulating, all the other females have to be ready to mate. So by nature's design, the alpha female chooses the alpha male. When she is ready all of them should be ready so that they can all conceive at the same time.


Common misconception. The idea that periods sync is often contested. At present, further evidence is needed to support such a claim.

Quote:
The whole idea started when a college student did a research study in the 1970s on 135 students living in her dorm. The study concluded that period syncing was a real thing that people who menstruate experience when they’re in close contact with other people who menstruate. This confirmed the belief many people held from a wives’ tale regarding this topic. This idea of period syncing became known as the McClintock effect, named after the student who did the study. McClintock proposed that when two menstruators were around each other a lot, their pheromones (which are chemical signals released by the body) would communicate and adjust their periods to make them happen at the same time.

Later, additional research proved that this was actually NOT the case–pheromones don’t communicate or cause synched menstruation as McClintock suspected, and period syncing didn’t really happen.

Even though the initial study has been debunked by many studies since it was first conducted, a lot of people still believe in period syncing. A study from 1999 found that 70% of the of the 122 women polled believed that they had experienced period synchronization.

So why is it that people believe that their periods are influenced by those around them even when research shows that they are not? One explanation is something called confirmation bias. Simply put, people who believe that periods do sync-up are more likely to look for proof that they are correct. So, even if they’re only occasionally menstruating at the same time as a friend, those infrequent occurrences can make them feel that it is more than pure coincidence.


Source: https://periodeducationproject.org/2021 ... cing-real/


_________________
Support human artists! Do not let the craft die.

25. Near the spectrum but not on it.


bee33
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 19 Apr 2008
Age: 60
Gender: Female
Posts: 2,540

20 Nov 2023, 11:45 pm

Stalk wrote:
Females in a group synchronise their cycle. Or in other words, some female's cycle changes, while one will not. The one who doesn't is the alpha female. When the alpha female is ovulating, all the other females have to be ready to mate. So by nature's design, the alpha female chooses the alpha male. When she is ready all of them should be ready so that they can all conceive at the same time.

As much as we would like to think we are human, monogamy was never in our animalistic design. So alpha male couldn't even be monogamous even if they tried. That leaves all the non alpha males at the bottom of the food chain. I'm sad for both male and female. Males if not alpha will forever be at the bottom and lower ranking females will forever be toeing the line of the alpha female.

So I see serial monogamy as some way to play by the rules of "society".

anthropomorphising what we see in nature is apparently bad. But humans have these sophisticated mannerisms that when zoomed out seems pretty much just like the ordinary mammal going about their usual business.

The mating practices of various species, even among mammals, are very different. There are no useful conclusions to be drawn between how other animals pair up and reproduce and how humans pair up and reproduce. Much of what you wrote here is non-scientific conjecture.



rse92
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 14 Oct 2021
Age: 64
Gender: Male
Posts: 1,132
Location: Buffalo, NY

21 Nov 2023, 11:33 am

You can conceive of serial monogamy, because it exists in the world and you see it every day with your own two eyes.

Without serial monogamy it is not likely civilizations would have been formed, and we would still be living in caves.

I think you mean to say either (i) you don't understand serial monogamy or (ii) serial monogamy is not just for you.



Stalk
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 19 Jul 2012
Age: 45
Gender: Male
Posts: 2,132

21 Nov 2023, 1:19 pm

If you don't want to hear it from me, maybe a female neuroscientist will convince you.



Lost_dragon wrote:
Stalk wrote:
Females in a group synchronise their cycle. Or in other words, some female's cycle changes, while one will not. The one who doesn't is the alpha female. When the alpha female is ovulating, all the other females have to be ready to mate. So by nature's design, the alpha female chooses the alpha male. When she is ready all of them should be ready so that they can all conceive at the same time.


Common misconception. The idea that periods sync is often contested. At present, further evidence is needed to support such a claim.

Quote:
The whole idea started when a college student did a research study in the 1970s on 135 students living in her dorm. The study concluded that period syncing was a real thing that people who menstruate experience when they’re in close contact with other people who menstruate. This confirmed the belief many people held from a wives’ tale regarding this topic. This idea of period syncing became known as the McClintock effect, named after the student who did the study. McClintock proposed that when two menstruators were around each other a lot, their pheromones (which are chemical signals released by the body) would communicate and adjust their periods to make them happen at the same time.

Later, additional research proved that this was actually NOT the case–pheromones don’t communicate or cause synched menstruation as McClintock suspected, and period syncing didn’t really happen.

Even though the initial study has been debunked by many studies since it was first conducted, a lot of people still believe in period syncing. A study from 1999 found that 70% of the of the 122 women polled believed that they had experienced period synchronization.

So why is it that people believe that their periods are influenced by those around them even when research shows that they are not? One explanation is something called confirmation bias. Simply put, people who believe that periods do sync-up are more likely to look for proof that they are correct. So, even if they’re only occasionally menstruating at the same time as a friend, those infrequent occurrences can make them feel that it is more than pure coincidence.


Source: https://periodeducationproject.org/2021 ... cing-real/



Lost_dragon
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 6 May 2017
Gender: Female
Posts: 2,825
Location: England

21 Nov 2023, 1:57 pm

Stalk wrote:
If you don't want to hear it from me, maybe a female neuroscientist will convince you.



You appear to have sent a two hour long video.The title suggests the topic is about how stress impacts the body. Is there a section on periods? If so, when does it start in the video?


_________________
Support human artists! Do not let the craft die.

25. Near the spectrum but not on it.


rse92
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 14 Oct 2021
Age: 64
Gender: Male
Posts: 1,132
Location: Buffalo, NY

21 Nov 2023, 5:12 pm

By the way, the hijacking of this thread into a discussion about synchronized periods is the most Wrong Planety thing I can imagine.



Lost_dragon
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 6 May 2017
Gender: Female
Posts: 2,825
Location: England

21 Nov 2023, 5:52 pm

rse92 wrote:
By the way, the hijacking of this thread into a discussion about synchronized periods is the most Wrong Planety thing I can imagine.


Sorry. I just figured I should address it since it was mentioned.

As for the topic at hand, I understand where the OP is coming from. The title is a little misleading, since the thread is about the expectation of completely cutting contact with an ex after a break up. Something which the OP finds to be inconceivable unless the relationship ended very poorly or was in some way abusive. Rather than the idea of monogamy itself being inconceivable.

Yet despite this the conversation has since shifted into discussing poly relationships and whether humans are typically monogamous by nature or due to societal pressure and expectation.

So, I'll bring it back on topic. Personally, in my peer group it's not unusual to remain friends with exes. However, some distance is expected (such as moving out of an ex's place or looking to move out, and being friends rather than best friends).

I'm aware that this is somewhat unusual though and there's still an expectation that you can't be friends with exes in most groups. With people assuming that if you have any contact with an ex then you're about one step away from getting back together. I think it's possible to be friends with an ex.

Granted, I've never been in a relationship so I'm fully out of my depth of understanding here. However, anecdotally I see it happen a lot.


_________________
Support human artists! Do not let the craft die.

25. Near the spectrum but not on it.


rse92
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 14 Oct 2021
Age: 64
Gender: Male
Posts: 1,132
Location: Buffalo, NY

21 Nov 2023, 6:26 pm

You didn’t hijack the thread.



bee33
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 19 Apr 2008
Age: 60
Gender: Female
Posts: 2,540

21 Nov 2023, 7:29 pm

rse92 wrote:
You can conceive of serial monogamy, because it exists in the world and you see it every day with your own two eyes.

Without serial monogamy it is not likely civilizations would have been formed, and we would still be living in caves.

I think you mean to say either (i) you don't understand serial monogamy or (ii) serial monogamy is not just for you.

I think the possible uses of "conceive of" are broader than you are giving the term credit for. This is from an online dictionary:
Quote:
con‧ceive /kənˈsiːv/ verb - 1 [intransitive, transitive] to imagine a particular situation or to think about something in a particular way

(cannot) conceive of (doing) something
Many people can’t conceive of a dinner without meat or fish.

conceive that
He could not conceive that anything really serious could be worrying his friend.

conceive what/why/how etc
I can hardly conceive what it must be like here in winter.



Mona Pereth
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 11 Sep 2018
Gender: Female
Posts: 7,846
Location: New York City (Queens)

21 Nov 2023, 10:24 pm

Lost_dragon wrote:
Personally, in my peer group it's not unusual to remain friends with exes. However, some distance is expected (such as moving out of an ex's place or looking to move out, and being friends rather than best friends).

I'm aware that this is somewhat unusual though and there's still an expectation that you can't be friends with exes in most groups. With people assuming that if you have any contact with an ex then you're about one step away from getting back together. I think it's possible to be friends with an ex.

In my experience, this varies by subculture.

In my experience, staying friends with exes seems to be more common among lesbians, gay men, and bisexuals than among heterosexuals.

But even among heterosexuals, it is not unheard of. For example, among the people I know, I'm aware of at least two divorced heterosexual couples that stayed friends for the sake of their children, for whom they had a joint custody arrangement.


_________________
- Autistic in NYC - Resources and new ideas for the autistic adult community in the New York City metro area.
- Autistic peer-led groups (via text-based chat, currently) led or facilitated by members of the Autistic Peer Leadership Group.
- My Twitter / "X" (new as of 2021)


nick007
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 4 May 2010
Age: 41
Gender: Male
Posts: 27,353
Location: was Louisiana but now Vermont in the police state called USA

22 Nov 2023, 6:27 am

Me & my first gf tried to remain friends after our breakup since we were best friends before we got together but we were having fights a lot. We were both kinda angry about things & she had various issues she was dealing with that caused me to feel protective of her while we were together & I still felt protective of her after we broke up. I ended up tourching the bridge I had with her by fighting which was good because it made it eadier for me to move on.


_________________
"I don't have an anger problem, I have an idiot problem!"
~King Of The Hill


"Hear all, trust nothing"
~Ferengi Rule Of Acquisition #190
https://memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/Ru ... cquisition