Avi Loeb: the Harvard Physicist Who Thinks Its Always Aliens

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naturalplastic
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01 Dec 2023, 9:21 pm

cyberdad wrote:
Rather than blindly copy/pasting responses attacking him from colleagues who (as he has said) are likely jealous of his achievements, why not evaluate yourselves what he is claiming (I am sure you are all capable of doing this if you want).

In 2017 he was one of many astronomers studying the detection of a peculiarly shaped object passing through our solar system. Astronomers described it as having “extreme dimensions” (long thin and flat like a pancake). Other astronomers agreed that the object was anomalous. It did not have a tail like a comet so was identified as an asteroid.

The problem was the object (dubbed ’Oumuamua – Hawaiian for “scout” or “first distant messenger” indicating it's entry from outside the solar system) was measured by NASA as accelerating while travelling past the sun. This presented a dilemma since asteroids can't do this.

The problem facing astronomers is what endogenous source of energy could accelerate the object? It did not have ice (like a comet) so the heat of the sun can't force gas to push the object. Because the object was flat it was likely the object absorbed heat from the sun but what was the mechanism? Loeb said among many options that one option is ’Oumuamua could be a solar sail from an interstellar craft, using sunlight to accelerate through space. In other words, it belonged to aliens. His offering this as a possible (not only) reason was immediately jumped upon as heresy.

Loeb is brave to be open minded, He is intellectually curious. So when an object was detected by NASA again as being interstellar landed of the coast of new Guinea in 2014, Loeb suggested an expedition to retrieve the remains of the object. Despite being funded, his colleagues again accused him of running a fool's errand. Loeb collected spherules from the exact zone of the object and while the spherules he collected do contain anomalies i(and likely of interstellar origin) t does not prove they are of alien origin.

Offering alternative theories is within the bounds of the scientific method as other in the case of both objects exhaustive investigation has not comprehensively determined the origin of the material. Until their origin is completely determined all bets are on. Loeb is one of the few who is willing to put his own reputation on the line (and why should he?) to say that they may also be of artificial origin.


Why dont YOU stop projecting yourself on to us? you're the one with the cookie cutter responses.

We talked about this thing that fell in the sea near New Guinea in another thread. I explained how objects in space naturally move fast. You had no answer. So instead of acknowledging defeat you hid behind an appeal to authority by saying "this guy has creditials ".

Several problems ...hundreds of folks of equal creditials say he's full of it.

And you ...as an individual ...using an appeal to authority...is even more problematic than for most because its hypocritical ...because you have history of contempt for authority. You dont even bother to learn conventional history, conventional archeology, or conventionial astronomy. Dismiss all scholars as racist. And when you do cite authority to back up anything you say...your 'authorities' are always e folks like Grahan Hancock (an outright grifter and media huxter).
So its laughable for you to suddenly brag about what a mainstream authority this guy happens to agree with you is.

So FINNALLY you find ONE mainstream member of the scientific community who has more credentials than Grahan Hancock or Eric Van Danikan, or Tsoukakis, so you latch on to him with a death grip.

So ...instead of hiding behind this one dude's credentials...why dont YOU follow your own admonitions at us...do some thinking..and argue for him. Instead of hiding behind him, and waving his credentials at us?

And the first place to start with that is to tell us...what exactly IS the evidence for any of his claims?

There is ONE point he makes in the panel discussion taht I agree with...he comes off as a bully an as*hole and a liar... because of the way he says it. The way I would state his point is "the powers that be who write the checks to researchers have certain priorities...like war...and like curing cancer.... Scientists who want to chase after evidence for "little green men" are the rock bottom in priority. Thats why that lady (who was played by Jody Foster) could only get scraps and got to use Aricebo only on off days- before it got destroyed in a windstorm. It would be NICE if the government would finance a space probe (manned or unmanned) at the drop of hat just to check out Onomanopea (or whatever that objects called) to see if it is in fact an alien sail driven machine, or not. But the powers at be just wont shell out that kinda money at a moments notice.



cyberdad
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01 Dec 2023, 11:07 pm

naturalplastic wrote:

What exactly was he "right about"?

Nothing.

He just pointed what everybody already knew. That both objects were intersteller in origin and both had anomalies.

All he did was to tack on his own purely speculative explanations for the anomalies ...


And what pray tell is wrong with postulating an artificial origin of the objects? You do realise that
a. He is not stating there is overwhelming evidence that he is right? he has stated that the probability for an artificial origin is low which is within the bounds of credibility
b. In phenomenological science (which is what this is) there is no right or wrong answer. You can postulate a theory if there is evidence to support it (and I will carry on when I answer your next post)



Last edited by cyberdad on 01 Dec 2023, 11:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.

cyberdad
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01 Dec 2023, 11:13 pm

naturalplastic wrote:
So FINNALLY you find ONE mainstream member of the scientific community who has more credentials than Grahan Hancock or Eric Van Danikan, or Tsoukakis, so you latch on to him with a death grip. .


I did post of about Professor John Mack who founded the School of Psychiatry at Harvard. Did you read what Harvard said about his research (please make some cursory effort) because it applies to Avi Loeb.

In current times there are plenty of high profile academics speaking out about aliens like Stanford Professor of Medicine Gary Nolan
https://www.popularmechanics.com/milita ... eady-here/



cyberdad
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01 Dec 2023, 11:20 pm

naturalplastic wrote:
Several problems ...hundreds of folks of equal creditials say he's full of it.
.


Because postulating the existence of aliens is calling for a paradigm shift that represent ontological shock for perhaps thousands of scientists who have been conditioned to believe that existence of aliens is forbidden to be discussed because it is automatically relegated to crazy talk.

Ironically Loeb is being highly conservative. He is stating that if (and this is an if) the objects are alien in origin then they like represent a long extinct civilisation perhaps millions of years ago, The relics of their civilisation have been floating in space for that duration of time and have only entered our own solar system. I don't think he was evert talking about little green men (as you claim) flying craft.



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01 Dec 2023, 11:24 pm

naturalplastic wrote:
Scientists who want to chase after evidence for "little green men" are the rock bottom in priority.


That is likely to change
https://www.boston.com/news/national-ne ... phenomena/

That's funded by your tax dollars

My daughter's class had to do an assignment on the Galileo Project. Both Avi Loeb and his program self-evidently have an international reputation.

This UFO program was also funded by 22 million US dollars of taxpayer money
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Advanced_ ... on_Program

So is this one currently
https://www.defense.gov/News/News-Stori ... ting-tool/

Priorities change



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13 Dec 2023, 4:13 am

Prof Gary Nolan of Stanford Medical School is now a nominee for the Nobel prize in Immunology
https://www.firstpost.com/world/aliens- ... 77642.html

Prof John Mack founded the School of Psychiatry in Harvard, Prof Avi Loeb was the longest serving head of astronomy at Harvard.

Not really sure how you can label three of the smartest men in the history of Harvard as crazy nutjobs, I know how much work is involved in just publishing one journal article, These three men combined have close to 3000 scholarly publications.



naturalplastic
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16 Dec 2023, 8:01 pm

So you still cant muster an argument on your own. So you just keep on appealing to authority. Whatever.

Loeb maybe accomplished, but for some reason he has decided to "go Hollywood" just to get fame by mentioning aliens.



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cyberdad
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16 Dec 2023, 9:44 pm

naturalplastic wrote:
but for some reason he has decided to "go Hollywood" just to get fame by mentioning aliens.


Are you sure? The man really doesn't have to resort to publicly humiliating himself in front of his peers for "cheap" publicity. I work in Universities and the moment they sniff you have any weird beliefs your career progression is basically over.

For that reason all of the men I mentioned (Loeb, Mack and Nolan) are actually quite brave,



Last edited by cyberdad on 16 Dec 2023, 9:47 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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16 Dec 2023, 9:46 pm

naturalplastic wrote:


You are doing precisely what you are accusing me of doing which is resorting to "authority" figures to speak for you. Just because the spherules might have a "mundane" origin (space rock blasted from another galaxy) doesn't mean you can't look at other possible origins.

I am puzzled why Loeb is being crucified for posing questions?



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16 Dec 2023, 9:50 pm

Funny, someone with more accomplishments than me in science is preaching some ridiculous stuff, maybe I should give it a listen


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naturalplastic
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16 Dec 2023, 10:02 pm

cyberdad wrote:
naturalplastic wrote:


You are doing precisely what you are accusing me of doing which is resorting to "authority" figures to speak for you. Just because the spherules might have a "mundane" origin (space rock blasted from another galaxy) doesn't mean you can't look at other possible origins.

I am puzzled why Loeb is being crucified for posing questions?

I am doing nothing of the sort.
I am posting a vid that shows the data.
He is being crucified for jumping to conclusions. Not for "posing questons".



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16 Dec 2023, 11:52 pm

naturalplastic wrote:
[
He is being crucified for jumping to conclusions. Not for "posing questons".


He is being crucified because he dared open the possibility that there is advanced sentient life in other parts of the universe, and their debri might be reaching us.



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17 Dec 2023, 12:41 am

We should be open minded to all possibilities. Pioneers such as the Wright brothers were also ridiculed and people flat out said flying in a heavier than air machine was impossible. People in the 1950s or 60s could never have dreamed we could store dozens of movies and hours of music on almost microscopic sticks or cards.

We develop as a species when open minded experts break the conservative mould that holds us back, and stick their neck out by at least entertaining certain possibilities. We would have the resources to do this if we didn't have warmongers to contend with, who want to drag us back into the dark ages.

If there are indeed intelligent beings out there they quite rightly avoid us!


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17 Dec 2023, 5:45 am

envirozentinel wrote:
We should be open minded to all possibilities. Pioneers such as the Wright brothers were also ridiculed and people flat out said flying in a heavier than air machine was impossible. People in the 1950s or 60s could never have dreamed we could store dozens of movies and hours of music on almost microscopic sticks or cards.

We develop as a species when open minded experts break the conservative mould that holds us back, and stick their neck out by at least entertaining certain possibilities. We would have the resources to do this if we didn't have warmongers to contend with, who want to drag us back into the dark ages.

If there are indeed intelligent beings out there they quite rightly avoid us!


Thank you. Having an open mind means always being prepared to change one's views. Being open to possibilities makes us less susceptible to ontological shock when we realise we aren't the top of the food chain anymore.



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17 Dec 2023, 8:19 am

cyberdad wrote:
Having an open mind means always being prepared to change one's views.
Yeah, but not so open that your brains fall out... :wink:


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