Haley says US has ‘never been a racist country’

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naturalplastic
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18 Jan 2024, 9:32 am

So...she is the only adult person to grow up in the South who (a) never heard of the Civil War, and (b) is unaware of the Jim Crow laws that ruled life in the south little more than a generation ago that forced Blacks to seperate schools, hotels, pubic drinking fountains, etc etc?

Which mean that she is not a liar, but...a brain-dead idiot?



naturalplastic
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18 Jan 2024, 11:41 am

cyberdad wrote:
naturalplastic wrote:
So there is no way in heck that she could not know about the Civil War.


I compare her answer to De Santis, He was far more slick, with nuance, I think Haley draws on less experience with history as her response was like she had a brain freeze but if you watch her face she seemed sincere when gave her answer. Like in hope.


What are you talking about?

Of course she had "brain freeze". Thats the point.

She had "brain freeze" for the same reason that you would have if they had caught you with your hand in the till stealing money forcing you to weigh "how do I explain this and look good?".

Not because she was on Jeopardy and they asked her "what was the final score when Madagascar beat Mongolia in world cup soccer in 1987?".

Everyone born in the US links the Civil War to slavery. Even southern fanatics who deny that slavery was the cause still link the two things in their mnds because everyone else does.

She had brain freeze because someone cornered her by forcing her to give an unambiguous answer to a simple question...and she was terrified of alienating the MAGA crowd that she is trying to woo away from Trump -if she gave the obvious honest answer. Which was slavery.

Second ...if you really believe this nonsense that you're spouting in her defense then in effect you're saying that "Haley was not being a liar, she was being sincerely stupid idiot". Because thats what shed have to be to be as inept about history as you are postulating.

Which means that she is unqualified for high office because of stupidity instead being disqualified for dishonesty.



cyberdad
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18 Jan 2024, 6:07 pm

naturalplastic wrote:
She had brain freeze because someone cornered her by forcing her to give an unambiguous answer to a simple question...and she was terrified of alienating the MAGA crowd that she is trying to woo away from Trump -if she gave the obvious honest answer. Which was slavery.

Second ...if you really believe this nonsense that you're spouting in her defense then in effect you're saying that "Haley was not being a liar, she was being sincerely stupid idiot". Because thats what shed have to be to be as inept about history as you are postulating.

Which means that she is unqualified for high office because of stupidity instead being disqualified for dishonesty.


If you remember a decade ago she also was a staunch defender of southern stated seceding from the north https://edition.cnn.com/2023/02/21/poli ... index.html

Her expressed belief as governor was the confederate flag was a symbol of southern states rights (so she is actually sticking to her original beliefs). It was only after the Dylan Roof mass murder that she was compelled to take down the flag.

She was a diplomat and you would expect her knowledge of foreign affairs/culture etc to be above average. But she seems to make plenty of faux pas when it comes to souther history. I posit she is practicing something called selective ignorance. She probably knows the role of slavery but if you read between the lines she is hyperfocused on "state rights" which is her attempt not at revisionist history (as is often claimed) but to ingratiate herself with her white southern voting base she is merely selecting the expressed views of southerners in the 1800s which the confederates saw the protection of their "way of life" as a matter of self-determination. Southerners back then expressed this in legalistic terms as "state rights" because euphemistic language has always been the mode of mass communication to the masses. But underpinning the conflict was the primary economic reason which was chattel slavery for which southern land owners were heavily reliant to make profit.

So I think Haley is being dissonant and choosing euphemistic language to placate herself with southern white voters but its also possible she believes it now herself as she sidesteps the rabbit hole that is slavery. This is like the way American kids know that other countries exist outside of the US but if you ask them to name 3 countries they shrug their shoulders....why? because knowing that information does not help them get a job. Same with Haley, she is selectively ignorant because knowing slavery doesn't pay her bills.



naturalplastic
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18 Jan 2024, 7:41 pm

Now you're changing your story and saying that she is being willfully ignorant because she HAS assimilated to Southern White US culture by being Confederate apologist....rather than saying 'she cant help it that doesnt know her ass from a hole in the ground because she is immigrant".

If THATS what you're saying then ..duhhhh. Of course thats what she is. Thats the very point.



cyberdad
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18 Jan 2024, 8:12 pm

naturalplastic wrote:
Now you're changing your story and saying that she is being willfully ignorant because she HAS assimilated to Southern White US culture by being Confederate apologist....rather than saying 'she cant help it that doesnt know her ass from a hole in the ground because she is immigrant".


Why can't the answer be both?

The child of immigrants have their heads filled with expectations from their parents. Growing up she probably didn't have the luxury of (or cognitive space for) pontificating over the civil war and frankly given what i know about first generation asian immigrant kids I doubt they would invest the time to engage in national identity debates that don't involve their own identity.



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01 Feb 2024, 7:43 am

ASPartOfMe wrote:
Everybody has gaffes every once in awhile and they should be excused a lot more then they are, but two of this magnitude in such a short period are not gaffes but an issue should automatically disqualify her from the office of President of the United States.

Nikki Haley Blames Barack Obama for Race, Gender ‘Division’ in America: ‘People Felt Like They Were Being Put in Camps’
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Nikki Haley claims former President Barack Obama is responsible for the racial and gender divisions in the country, saying his administration made Americans felt like they were being placed in “camps.”

On Wednesday, the 2024 Republican presidential candidate appeared as a guest on the radio show “The Breakfast Club,” where she discussed a myriad of topics, including her campaign and her background work as a politician, video of which you can watch above.

While chatting it up about how she feels the country doesn’t need an elderly leader, she shared that she voted for Trump in both the 2016 and 2020 presidential elections and felt the Obama administration was responsible for the division among races and genders in the country.

DJ Envy: Why are you against a Kamala Harris presidency?

Nikki Haley: Well, because the division in our country started with Obama…

With Obama, if you go back. That’s when we really started to feel the division,” Haley said. “Everything was exaggerated with the Obama administration. It became more about gender, it became more about race, it became more about separating Americans instead of bringing them together,” Haley continued, claiming Obama made Americans “feel boxed in.”

She continued: “Everybody is at fault. I’m not saying one person did this, but I’m saying under that administration, it really did cause some… You just felt — people felt like they were being put in camps through that administration. The second thing is, he was very much an Iranian sympathizer. He very much kept wanting to do things with Iran. I think that’s incredibly dangerous. This is a culture that says, ‘Death to America,’ and you have to always be careful. A lot of spending happened on his watch that started us down that spiral.”

Haley said she believed Trump provided the country with “needed a self-correction and was “good breaking things,” which is why she voted for him twice.

“The second time I voted for him is, I didn’t want Biden. I saw that Biden was Obama 2.0 and I didn’t want to take that chance of where he was going to take us,” Haley said. “I knew they wanted to get back in the Iran deal. I knew that they weren’t serious about closing the border. I knew that the wasteful spending that we had seen was going to happen, and so I voted for Trump thinking that he was going to do more of the same.”

By the end of it, Haley stamped Trump as being too chaotic of a person to be given the responsibility of serving the country.


Losing to Trump really does bring out the worst in people. When this series of “gaffes” stated I did give her the benefit of the doubt. No matter what you think of public displays of Confederate symbolism, no matter what her motivation, ordering Confederate flags taken down before it became more acceptable was both brave and a factor in making taking down Confederate symbols more acceptable. It was a factor in why I gave her the benefit of the doubt. But while that will always be part of her biography it was also 9 years ago.

I have come to the conclusion Nikki Haley is a seething racist.

But why has America become so divided is more important then Nikki Haley. While America was becoming more divided during his administration it was part of a process that started well before he took office.

Off Topic
I would argue the process started in the 1960s and made worse by the 1970s mythologizing of the 1960s which had the effect of whitewashing the bad elements of the 60s. People were not exactly saying nice things about each other during the Clinton Administration.

And valid argument can be made that it was not the 1960s and 70s but the 1860s and 70s and the whitewashing of those issues that are the roots of our polarization

Obama was too liberal in his use of the executive order to bypass Congress and that created hard feelings. The regulations that created so called campus star chambers meant to deal with sexual harassment and abuse went too far and were divisive.

The use of executive orders were in reaction to Congressional Republicans policy of total non cooperation. Obama bitched about progressive excesses to anybody who would listen. To blame Obama for the MAGA/alt right reaction to him is victim blaming.

And WTF does Kamala Harris have to do with Obama? I guess they both look kind of black.


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naturalplastic
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01 Feb 2024, 8:13 am

cyberdad wrote:
naturalplastic wrote:
Now you're changing your story and saying that she is being willfully ignorant because she HAS assimilated to Southern White US culture by being Confederate apologist....rather than saying 'she cant help it that doesnt know her ass from a hole in the ground because she is immigrant".


Why can't the answer be both?

The child of immigrants have their heads filled with expectations from their parents. Growing up she probably didn't have the luxury of (or cognitive space for) pontificating over the civil war and frankly given what i know about first generation asian immigrant kids I doubt they would invest the time to engage in national identity debates that don't involve their own identity.



How CAN "the answer be 'both'"?

How can you be both ignorant of the truth, AND know the truth (and deliberately lie about it) at the same time?



cyberdad
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01 Feb 2024, 8:54 pm

naturalplastic wrote:
How CAN "the answer be 'both'"?

How can you be both ignorant of the truth, AND know the truth (and deliberately lie about it) at the same time?


It's possible to be selectively ignorant even if you know where to look. Haley probably knows the link between slavery and the civil war based on consensus of views from known "experts" but that doesn't mean she would open a book and read about this link because the truth does not benefit her based on the politics she has hitched her wagon to.



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03 Feb 2024, 5:12 am

Denying the existence of a problem won't make it go away. But that seems to have always been the conservative way.


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Kitty4670
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03 Mar 2024, 9:48 pm

Why is she lying? What is GOP?



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03 Mar 2024, 10:14 pm

Kitty4670 wrote:
Why is she lying? What is GOP?


The GOP is America's conservative party.

She's lying because conservatives and reality don't really agree on much.


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03 Mar 2024, 10:39 pm

Conservative means "old school" and "old boys". I don't think there is any ambiguity what this means. If you look at the backlash against "woke" it is basically old boys using young conservatives (young execs, frat boys and country bumpkins) and aspiring conservatives (Candance Ownes, Nikki Haley, Vivek Ramaswamy and Tulsi Gabbard) as cannon fodder to weaponise culture and attack the left.



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04 Mar 2024, 1:30 am

Kitty4670 wrote:
Why is she lying? What is GOP?


GOP = Grand Old Party. Another name for the Republican party.


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04 Mar 2024, 4:09 pm

Interesting thing to say when it's obviously not true.



Jason Thayer
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05 Mar 2024, 6:40 pm

What I find most annoying is that most Republicans who are voting were probably not even alive for Jim Crow. Jim Crow should have never happened. They're the reason we've been so gosh-darn slow on our progress!
News flash: there was NOTHING good about the "old days", unless you were privileged. And progress won't change your privilege.


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