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naturalplastic
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26 Jan 2024, 2:16 am

cyberdad wrote:
naturalplastic wrote:
The answer to that question is "of course its as bad".
Next topic.


I don't think it's that simple. After WWII there was a massive debate over culpability for war crimes committed by the German troops and Japanese imperial forces. The vast majority (I suspect > 95%) of foot soldiers, militia and others who carried out war crimes were never prosecuted. This same debate emerged after the Rwandan genocide. Others like the genocide of Cambodians by Pol Pot's followers, Bangladeshis by Pakistani or Burmese troops or Sri Lankan Tamil civilians by the Sinhalese army go completely unpunished.

Prosecuters can only go after readily identifiable individuals with some level of notoriety (like camp guards) or prominent leaders or leaders who gave orders. In the layers of heirarchy those middlemen who gave orders go unpunished.

To quote Star wars - "Good soldiers follow orders". There is one train of thought that when orders are given by those in authority you have no choice but to follow orders.

So...? You are agreeing with me that the commander in charge is at least as guity as the henchmen, if not worse?

In fact you're going beyond what I said to use "the Nuremburg Defense" that the henchmen were just "following orders".



cyberdad
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26 Jan 2024, 3:56 am

naturalplastic wrote:
So...? You are agreeing with me that the commander in charge is at least as guity as the henchmen, if not worse?

In fact you're going beyond what I said to use "the Nuremburg Defense" that the henchmen were just "following orders".


Just trying to quantify the henchmen Vs master - which one being worse
According to the Nuremberg trials it's master



belijojo
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26 Jan 2024, 5:38 am

There seems to be no factual truth to this question, but rather depends on one's perspective - whether the followers have contributed to the historical development.and the difference in size of contribution


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naturalplastic
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26 Jan 2024, 8:44 am

cyberdad wrote:
naturalplastic wrote:
So...? You are agreeing with me that the commander in charge is at least as guity as the henchmen, if not worse?

In fact you're going beyond what I said to use "the Nuremburg Defense" that the henchmen were just "following orders".


Just trying to quantify the henchmen Vs master - which one being worse
According to the Nuremberg trials it's master


By "the Nurmeburg Defense" I was referring to the failed argument used by the defendants at Nuremburg that they "were only following orders...only doing my duty".



cyberdad
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26 Jan 2024, 8:38 pm

naturalplastic wrote:
By "the Nurmeburg Defense" I was referring to the failed argument used by the defendants at Nuremburg that they "were only following orders...only doing my duty".


I am expanding the concept of henchmen to include anyone given orders to kill. But I acknowledge the OPs concept pertained to sidekick of the master.



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27 Jan 2024, 4:39 am

chris1989 wrote:
What I mean is, is a henchman more responsible for doing terrible things than their master. I have read plenty of books and other sources of information on dictators and the henchmen in the secret police who enforce the rules and do their dirty work for them. I remember watching a video about the Night of the Long Knives in Nazi Germany in which Hitler had many of his real or imagined opponents shot in 1934 and in it, a historian was explaining how it was people like Goring, Himmler and Heydrich who fed Hitler with information on his opponents that was completely false and many were loyal to him anyway but still got shot. It even reminds me of when I watched the TV series The Tudors where Henry VIII (played by Jonathan Rhys Meyers) had thousands of people executed including two of his wives and there were people in his court who were probably more bloodthirsty than he was and feeding his paranoia with false information about people who might oppose him.


I mean Hitler is awful for what he did, but for sure it is very possible some even worse characters where influencing him, such as Heinrich Himmler who was the main architect of the holocaust like that was kind of his idea that he sold hitler on, of course hitler was an awful person for agreeing but ....all the awfulness of nazi germany certainly did not just fall on him, I think though he thought he was the leader he was just a figurehead and it was more people like himmler who really ran the show. Not to diminish the awfulness of Hitler, but just not sure he was actually the one really running the show. Because from what I understand he was also a bit of a mental wreck a lot of the time so he would for sure have to put others in charge of things while he continued to be a racist and sh***y mental wreck who was ok with exterminating people.


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