JamesW wrote:
OK, I'm back in, because I've calmed down slightly and I can concede that my blanket statements were wrong. I'm glad that there's healthy debate going on, and I'm happy that I've inadvertently been able to provoke it.
It may be the case that valproate (or other drugs taken in pregnancy) causes autism. It is the case that valproate (or other drugs taken in pregnancy) causes autism-like symptoms.
A comparable case: a bunch of drug addicts, all of whom had taken heroin from the same bad batch, started to display Parkinson's-like symptoms. Clinicians studying the addicts found that their brains had suffered damage in the same areas associated with Parkinson's. The research has been invaluable in the ongoing quest for a cure.
First: Parkinson's is a degenerative disease. The quest for a cure is admirable. Autistic people (speaking only for myself) are born with autism. There is no cure, only mitigation. The quest for a 'cure' can lead us into bad places, potentially ending in eugenics.
Second: the addicts had Parkinson's-like symptoms. They did not have Parkinson's. That is beyond dispute. But here we have journalists conflating autism and autism-like symptoms. I also find that UK government advisors are doing the same (at least where valproate is concerned). We just can't do that. We simply don't know enough yet.
I very much hope that research into these symptoms will not only help the people brain-damaged by valproate etc., but also help us understand more about autism. But the pat statement '<Drug X> causes autism' just gets in the way, and doesn't help anyone, including autistic people like myself who were born with autism for no currently identifiable reason at all. NTs have a hard enough job understanding autism already as it is. At the minimum level, all this does is expose us to extra NT microaggressions, like 'But... your mother never took anything when she was pregnant. You can't be autistic. You're just weird.'
I continue to insist that the BBC and the UK government - both responsible agencies, with no agenda to push - should know better. As an autistic person I think I'm entitled to be angry about that. Also as an autistic person (and very much thanks to my evaluation and diagnosis), I know I get angrier than NTs at much less than NTs get angry at. Thanks to jimmy m in another thread for the advice 'sleep on it', and I'm also grateful that I do sleep well, as I know autistic people who suffer from chronic insomnia.
Thanks for listening. I'm off to complain to the right people now.
My father was diagnosed by a MD, a neurologist, as having Parkinson’s. He was later diagnosed by a second Neurologist as not having Parkinson’s. The second Neurologist was at a well known teaching hospital at the Parkinson’s Center and used a new kind of brain scan called a DAT scan. The first did not.
The difference between Autumn and Parkinson’s is that with there is a second, accepted diagnosis that you can get called Parkinsonism and “Parkinsonism” is not always the same as “Parkinson’s disease”. With “Parkinson’s disease” the current understanding is that it is caused by misfolded proteins that cause other similar proteins to also become misfolded. And so it is progressive. The same hospital that did the DAT scan (which measures dopamine receptors in the brain by giving the patient a radioactive dye which attaches to the dopamine receptors) has developed a new test for the proteins of interest by taking a sample of spinal fluid and looking for Alpha-synuclein proteins and clumps called Lewy bodies. But it is laboratory only and was not available to us as a “bio-marker”. So we got the DAT scan. But frankly I think the DAT scan was inconclusive - the doc said it wasn’t normal but it also didn’t look like Parkinson’s disease so it might have been normal aging.
With Autism we just aren’t there yet. There isn’t one thing called “Autism disease” and another called “Autism-ionism”. There is no DAT scan or tell tale Lewy body that can be seen under the microscope.
The closest thing to a bio-marker is EEG scans, but they are laboratory only. They are not used to diagnose Autism. In the USA the DSM is used to diagnose Autism. And that is exactly about observable behavior. No more, no less. In Europe they have different rules and I live in the USA so I don’t happen to know about them. Twin Studies show a 98 percent correlation when one identical twin is Autistic then the other twin is as well. Strong evidence for a genetic component. But still not a 100 percent correlation in every case. Still room for environmental factors. Still room for chemicals that might mess with a baby’s genes with life long affects. And still a twin study is not a genetic test.
Beyond that is only identity-politics and a feeling of a right to be offended. Making up facts because you are angry that someone past or present has mistreated you isn’t going to change the fact that with Autism the behavior IS the diagnosis. With Parkinson’s not so.
So while everyone has a right to be angry, being angry doesn’t always mean being right.
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ADHD-I(diagnosed) ASD-HF(diagnosed)
RDOS scores - Aspie score 131/200 - neurotypical score 69/200 - very likely Aspie
06 Feb 2024, 5:38 pm
