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RedDeathFlower13
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08 Mar 2024, 8:23 pm

What are your thoughts on the concept of Misotheism? Unlike Atheism which is the belief that no god exists, Misotheism is the belief that the gods are indeed real but that they are all basically evil beings.

Old Testament God with his genocidal tendancies gives critics of Chtistanity every legit reason in the world to hate him.

And how 'bout them ancient Greek Gods and Goddesses? Zeus the serial rapist, his wife Hera the "protector of women" ....except for the women who caught her hubby's wondering eye. It's almost like every God and Goddess in Ancient Greece was either a violent rapist or a petty b**** with strong narcissism traits.

I could probably list a lot more examples of the terrible things the gods of our world have done that makes me question if any of them are truly worthy of worship?

Maybe if they are real they're basically just like our politicians? The great majority of them are terrible people and are best avoided as much as possible.

What do you guys think?


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ToughDiamond
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08 Mar 2024, 8:59 pm

I'm not a misotheist, I'm a non-theist.

I think there was some kind of evolution in the minds of human societies from capricious gods to moralising gods. I don't know why it happened, but maybe this article gives a clue or two:

https://www.nature.com/articles/s41586-019-1043-4

Not that I think any supernatural things beings have ever existed. I have a certain disdain for whoever wrote the nastier parts of the Bible, but naturally I can't hate a god that as far as I'm concerned doesn't exist. Even if there was an all-powerful, all-wise, all-loving deity, I can't imagine that such a lovely entity would lower itself to enjoying the sight of people worshipping it. I've never worshipped anything and I hope I never have to. My heart wouldn't be in it. I can praise and give credit where I see that it's due, but that worship thing takes it to another level - one that I see as something of an insult to the worshipper and the worshipped.



funeralxempire
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08 Mar 2024, 9:03 pm

I find misotheism an amusing hypothesis, but not a particularly compelling one.

I feel like if a god or gods existed, but also completely had it in for us, things would be much worse than they are.


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RedDeathFlower13
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08 Mar 2024, 9:24 pm

funeralxempire wrote:
I find misotheism an amusing hypothesis, but not a particularly compelling one.

I feel like if a god or gods existed, but also completely had it in for us, things would be much worse than they are.


Maybe if they are real they keep us around to amuse themselves? From what I read that's very much the whole reason why the Mesopotamians believed their gods created humanity. As mere playthings.

And I never understood where Christians got the idea that God was a loving and compassionate god, even as a littke kid. I remember watching The Prince of Egypt as q kid and thinking to myself "Why did God have to kill all those children in Egypt? What did they ever do to deserve that?"

And then there's the whole issue I have with God telling his followers to slaughter every man, woman, and child in Jericho (and poor little animals too. Like, serious?)

But then again as someone who's dabbled in wicca and neopaganism I also take issue with the New Age religous types who bash Christians and yet they do the same thing with the old gods they try to revive by whitewashing the grittier side of their mythologies and cherry picking (or outright making s**t up) the things they want to worship about their chosen gods and goddesses.

Maybe all religions are guilty of this?


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funeralxempire
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08 Mar 2024, 9:26 pm

RedDeathFlower13 wrote:
funeralxempire wrote:
I find misotheism an amusing hypothesis, but not a particularly compelling one.

I feel like if a god or gods existed, but also completely had it in for us, things would be much worse than they are.


Maybe if they are real they keep us around to amuse themselves? From what I read that's very much the whole reason why the Mesopotamians believed their gods created humanity. As mere playthings.

And I never understood where Christians got the idea that God was a loving and compassionate god, even as a littke kid. I remember watching The Prince of Egypt as q kid and thinking to myself "Why did God have to kill all those children in Egypt? What did they ever do to deserve that?"

And then there's the whole issue I have with God telling his followers to slaughter every man, woman, and child in Jericho (and poor little animals too. Like, serious?)

But then again as someone who's dabbled in wicca and neopaganism I also take issue with the New Age religous types who bash Christians and yet they do the same thing with the old gods they try to revive by whitewashing the grittier side of their mythologies and cherry picking (or outright making s**t up) the things they want to worship about their chosen gods and goddesses.

Maybe all religions are guilty of this?


Outright making s**t up: 100%
Whitewashing the no longer palatable aspects of their faith/changing to keep up with the time: 100%

The religions that didn't do so likely died out. :nerdy:


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RedDeathFlower13
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08 Mar 2024, 9:54 pm

funeralxempire wrote:
RedDeathFlower13 wrote:
funeralxempire wrote:
I find misotheism an amusing hypothesis, but not a particularly compelling one.

I feel like if a god or gods existed, but also completely had it in for us, things would be much worse than they are.


Maybe if they are real they keep us around to amuse themselves? From what I read that's very much the whole reason why the Mesopotamians believed their gods created humanity. As mere playthings.

And I never understood where Christians got the idea that God was a loving and compassionate god, even as a littke kid. I remember watching The Prince of Egypt as q kid and thinking to myself "Why did God have to kill all those children in Egypt? What did they ever do to deserve that?"

And then there's the whole issue I have with God telling his followers to slaughter every man, woman, and child in Jericho (and poor little animals too. Like, serious?)

But then again as someone who's dabbled in wicca and neopaganism I also take issue with the New Age religous types who bash Christians and yet they do the same thing with the old gods they try to revive by whitewashing the grittier side of their mythologies and cherry picking (or outright making s**t up) the things they want to worship about their chosen gods and goddesses.

Maybe all religions are guilty of this?


Outright making s**t up: 100%
Whitewashing the no longer palatable aspects of their faith/changing to keep up with the time: 100%

The religions that didn't do so likely died out. :nerdy:


That's why I came to my senses and abandoned Lilith worship. I even threw all my junk dedicated to her on my altar away. :lol:

I feel like of all the neopagan deities who get whitewashed she is literally the worst example. What started as a Mesopotamian Demon-Goddess who got adopted into Judiasm and was blamed for killing young children and pregnant women during childbirth somehow got turner into a modern day feminist icon...

And these people always claim (with zero evidence) that she was a benovolent fertility goddess demonized by men. But I've studied plenty about her to know that this was never the case, not even her original Goddess form as Lamashtu.

That's when I finally told myself I'm going to stop being an edgelord and making up excuses for worshipping Lilith. :oops:

I still enjoy reading my cards though. :P


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RedDeathFlower13
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08 Mar 2024, 10:26 pm

I guess what I really mean to say is regardless if Lilith is real or not, she was never concieved by human minds to be "benovolent" in any sense of the word. She was always meant to purely malific from the time ancient humans invented her in Mesopotamia.


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old_comedywriter
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08 Mar 2024, 10:49 pm

People project their problems on what they worship.
"Hey, God does it, so I'm OK too!! !"
And what follows is usually this:
"God hates them people, so I hate them too!"


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funeralxempire
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08 Mar 2024, 11:09 pm

RedDeathFlower13 wrote:
That's why I came to my senses and abandoned Lilith worship. I even threw all my junk dedicated to her on my altar away. :lol:

I feel like of all the neopagan deities who get whitewashed she is literally the worst example. What started as a Mesopotamian Demon-Goddess who got adopted into Judiasm and was blamed for killing young children and pregnant women during childbirth somehow got turner into a modern day feminist icon...

And these people always claim (with zero evidence) that she was a benovolent fertility goddess demonized by men. But I've studied plenty about her to know that this was never the case, not even her original Goddess form as Lamashtu.

That's when I finally told myself I'm going to stop being an edgelord and making up excuses for worshipping Lilith. :oops:

I still enjoy reading my cards though. :P


I'm glad I'm not spiritual because it's hard enough getting over realizing humans you look up to are legitimately f*****g terrible.

It's hard to confront realizing you're being an edgelord and making bad excuses for terrible ideas. Ask me how I know. :lol:

It's good you were able to separate something important to you from it without having it be tainted.


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RedDeathFlower13
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08 Mar 2024, 11:46 pm

funeralxempire wrote:
RedDeathFlower13 wrote:
That's why I came to my senses and abandoned Lilith worship. I even threw all my junk dedicated to her on my altar away. :lol:

I feel like of all the neopagan deities who get whitewashed she is literally the worst example. What started as a Mesopotamian Demon-Goddess who got adopted into Judiasm and was blamed for killing young children and pregnant women during childbirth somehow got turner into a modern day feminist icon...

And these people always claim (with zero evidence) that she was a benovolent fertility goddess demonized by men. But I've studied plenty about her to know that this was never the case, not even her original Goddess form as Lamashtu.

That's when I finally told myself I'm going to stop being an edgelord and making up excuses for worshipping Lilith. :oops:

I still enjoy reading my cards though. :P


I'm glad I'm not spiritual because it's hard enough getting over realizing humans you look up to are legitimately f*****g terrible.

It's hard to confront realizing you're being an edgelord and making bad excuses for terrible ideas. Ask me how I know. :lol:

It's good you were able to separate something important to you from it without having it be tainted.


Lmao man I feel that about our human 'heroes". You're absolutely right that the majority of them ARE pretty terrible. :lol:

I've been thinking lately about some of the ones I used to admire. Mostly powerful women like queens and warriors before my sister explained to me that idolizing over women isnt the same as respecting women (and I'm still struggling with it to be honest...)

But even the notable women I have admired as heroes who left their mark on history were just as horrible as a lot of famous men were.

Wu Zetian, China's first and only Female Emperor, was a brutal tyrant who despite the reforms she made to the Chinese Empire was notorious for her scheming and sadistic methods for killing members of her own family so she could hold onto power.

Boudica, the Celtic Warrior Queen who led her people in a violent rebellion against the Romans who were occupying the British Isles, not only FAILED to defeat the Roman Legion but commited mass torture and scorched earth tactics against every Roman civilian as well as the Brits who refused to join her cause. She was essentially a war criminal... even though I still sympathize with her because she and her daughters were brutally raped by the Romans who betrayed her husband after his death. She still didnt have to torture civilians in such a cruel manner though!

Then there's the Agoji of West Africa. The world's only truly Amazon-like military force made up almost entirely by female warriors serving their king. When I first watched the documentary about them on the Smithsonian Channel I thought these badass women were the coolest thing ever. But then as I researched more about them I realized these women, unique as they were, were actually brutal slavers who also commited atrocious war crimes and were responsible for capturing many Africans to sell into slavery here in the Americas and other parts of the world. It really bothered me that both the documentary and the movie "The Woman King" completely downplayed this fact.

*sigh* Now my only heroes are the four funny old ladies from The Golden Girls. And they're fictional characters.


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funeralxempire
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08 Mar 2024, 11:53 pm

RedDeathFlower13 wrote:
*sigh* Now my only heroes are the four funny old ladies from The Golden Girls. And they're fictional characters.


My plush cat is my hero. In 20 years I've never seen her flinch or heard her complain once, and whenever I ask if she's hungry she tells me she's already stuffed.


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RedDeathFlower13
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08 Mar 2024, 11:58 pm

funeralxempire wrote:
RedDeathFlower13 wrote:
*sigh* Now my only heroes are the four funny old ladies from The Golden Girls. And they're fictional characters.


My plush cat is my hero. In 20 years I've never seen her flinch or heard her complain once, and whenever I ask if she's hungry she tells me she's already stuffed.


She sounds cute. Meow! :cat:


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09 Mar 2024, 4:08 am

RedDeathFlower13 wrote:
Misotheism is the belief that the gods are indeed real but that they are all basically evil beings.


I would be OK with Misotheism, but only in terms of Gods as beings created as fictional characters, mostly by ruling elites, in order to protect their wealth and privileges and to control the masses.

Otherwise, I am mostly agnostic. I believe that there is a higher inteligence behid every, both creative and destructive process, all around the Universe. Like nature itself. Actually I believe that creation itself is born out of both creative and destructive forces, like yin and yang - something has to be destroyed in order for something new to be born.

Now the mostly perfect order (even when something seems destructive from our little humans point of view) of everything that is happening in Universe is beyond my comprehension. But I don't see a God or Gods as being/beings, at least not as anything like human beings. I see it as a force and I can not comprehed it's shape. For us, people, it is easier to visualize God as a human being. And it is certainly easier for ruling elites to force us to believe that even they themselves are Gods, or God's chosen people, or God-like cretures, or anything like that.

However, I don't believe that creative force like that has to do anything with our personal fates. We are just casualties or better to say a part of overall creative and destructive processes around us, micro-mirrors of macro things that are happening in space and its perpetual evolution. At least I believe so.


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09 Mar 2024, 6:24 am

Theism but with hate and blame directed towards gods and higher power?

Hmmm...

I think either this person of such beliefs is just unlucky and blames everything except themselves or believes earth is hell or a prison with higher power or gods as a warden/judge, not a (inanely difficult) school.

Maybe misconstrued by applying and judging them by the conventional human morality towards these higher beings.
And if they're a bit too empathetic, it is likely subscribed to anti-natalism as an act of defiance towards them.

How do I feel about misotheism?
I don't know. Beliefs are beliefs. It doesn't particularly cross with me.
They can love gods, fear gods, hate gods, don't care about gods, believe them to exists in any form, believe them to not exists. They're the same to me.



Anecdotes of other people around me IRL tells me that they believe that they're prone into demonic possessions and curses, may throw themselves into irresponsibility, hedonism and commiting crimes.

While they hate god, they still believe in god and therefore can yet to overcome that hate and possibly redeem themselves back into loving god.

They'd still compare atheists are worse off though, and believe that demons don't have to make things harder for them since they're going to hell for their disbelief anyways.


In any case, I only swore towards higher power once.
Just once. Out of severe frustration.

I'm not sure if it's blame, but it certainly isn't hate, suspicion or judgment.
Disappointment and annoyance perhaps, maybe a cry for help.

For the same reasons why I rant and whine around this forum.


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RedDeathFlower13
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09 Mar 2024, 7:16 pm

Both interesting points.

If I had the talent I would write my own fantasy world story in a Misotheistic style where the gods and goddesses people worship are real but are the actual evil villains of the story who have spread lies to their followers and causing wars and disasters for their own amusement.

Maybe create a trinity of not-so-holy gods?

A god of light, law, order, and justice

A god of darkness, crime, chaos, and injustice

A goddess of love, compassion, mercy, and motherhood.


The twist of course being that they're all equally bad and the hero of the story is the only one who confronts them.


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funeralxempire
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09 Mar 2024, 7:42 pm

RedDeathFlower13 wrote:
Both interesting points.

If I had the talent I would write my own fantasy world story in a Misotheistic style where the gods and goddesses people worship are real but are the actual evil villains of the story who have spread lies to their followers and causing wars and disasters for their own amusement.

Maybe create a trinity of not-so-holy gods?

A god of light, law, order, and justice

A god of darkness, crime, chaos, and injustice

A goddess of love, compassion, mercy, and motherhood.


The twist of course being that they're all equally bad and the hero of the story is the only one who confronts them.


Basically, their positive attributes are humans projecting on to them?

Ideally they'll all have their own takes on evil, like one can be malicious and vindictive, another it's more through neglect and disinterest, and another who's entirely oblivious to what they inflict, like an out of control toddler.


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