My newest deity shrine

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I find this interesting (I think we were talking about that in terms of destructive-creative processes)

vvv:

"Redistributing Wealth -- Earthquakes as the Great Equalizer.

Seven Lucky Gods Riding a "Namazu" Treasure Boat. Entitled 繁昌たから船, Late 19th Century.
On New Year's Eve, the seven enter port together on their Takarabune 宝船 (treasure ship) to bring happiness
to everyone. The boat is typically shaped like a dragon, but in this print it is shaped like a catfish (namazu).
Namazu is a giant catfish thought to live deep inside the earth. Its movements are said to cause earthquakes.
The seven are dressed in the garb of laborers who stand to gain from earthquake devastation, e.g. carpenters,
construction workers, fire fighters, roofers, harlots, tile merchants, and plasterers. The ocean itself is represented
by roof tiles, while the namuza is subdued by a mast-supporting wooden pole.
A lucky crane, turtle and dragon appear as well. Photo this this J-site.

Quakes create both winners and losers, have and have nots, survivors and victims, those who gain from the devastation and those who suffer from it. Earthquakes are therefore sometimes portrayed as a dreaded-yet-needed ways to renew the corrupted world, to redress social imbalances, to destroy the greed of the rich, and to restore Japanese society and its economy to normality (yonaoshi 世直し or "world rectification"). Phrased differently, earthquakes help to redistribute wealth. Says Gregory Smits (in a classroom presentation): "Earthquakes are bad news for those killed and seriously injured, as well as for those who lose homes and jobs. Following the 1855 Ansei Earthquake, however, many of Edo's common people profited handsomely from the rebuilding. All of the construction trades as well as porters, many types of vendors, sellers of raw material like lumber, and others -- probably a majority of Edo's ordinary people -- profited from the earthquake. Big losers included most social elites, especially the very wealthy, who had to pay sky-high prices to have their mansions rebuilt. It was as if the earthquake was an attempt by the cosmic forces to redistribute the wealth that had been accumulating among the big merchants and other social elites. Indeed, many of the catfish picture prints regarded the earthquake as strong social medicine -- with the unfortunate side."

Unfortunately, there are always those who's destiny is to fall under the umbrella of"collateral damage" that is also caused by such processes.

But maybe it is the Earth itself that HAS to experience ultimate creation through pain. Maybe there are better worlds, those that are close to the description of what we know as heaven - only good things, beauty, goodness in all creatures, no enemies, no rust, no germs, no death, you create anything you want with a simple wish, you levitate anywhere you want, everything is etheral and light..it can't be boring because people there know nothing about concept of evil..they care about each other, about any living creature, their consciousness is on the top level.. everything is friendly, animals, sea, weather.. would those people easily be able to believe in loving God? If yes, why them, not us? Do we have to go through experience of good and evil in this world before we are ready to be part of better worlds, if any? Does it make sense?

Have you heard of concept of lokas in Tibetan (and Hinduistic) a tradition?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loka

I have not, I'm not very familiar with Tibetan or Hindu beliefs to be honest. But I will read that link when I have time.

One thing I find interesting about Japanese religous beliefs is the concept of "kami". Kami are often mistaken as merely deities in the West, but there is something much deeper and higher to the meaning of that word. For example not only are their gods and goddesses regarded as kami but so are emperors, warriors, rocks, trees, etc. Things that hold signifigant influence over the world basically.

And a kami is capable of both good deeds as well as bad from what I read.


https://www.britannica.com/topic/kami

Speaking of the Japanese Kami, this is my favorite animated video about the creator deities Izanagi and Izanami and their three "noble children" known as Amaterasu the Goddess of the Sun, Tsukuyomi the God of the Moon, and Susanoo the God of Storms.

I love the fact that Amaterasu didn't take crap from either of her brothers. She reminds me of my own sister.

https://youtu.be/En9lf6zRR34?si=nuLIaXtBCdNWFw6J

I really love your theory of how an earthquake can be both devestating and benificial to society (much like war too).

However in regards to these gods especially the goddess Benzaiten I would NEVER refer to her as a "harlot". She's actually closer to being like a Geisha figure, and contrary to what Westerners think Geisha were not harlots selling their bodies to the highest bidder. They were artists and entertainers who were also skilled in the art of customer service and also tend to be highly educated aswell. They were very honorable and respectable ladies in Japanese society much like Benzaiten herself who holds the highest honor of being a Goddess.

So please don't think of her as something as demeaning as a "harlot". A Goddess of artists and geisha would fit her much better and I'm sure the "starving artists" of the Edo period benifited greatly from that earthquake too.

Here is an interesting blog with detailed information on this amazing goddess. Apparently besides being a goddess of eloquence, beauty, the arts, and wisdom. She was also a War Goddess who at times was portrayed with multiple arms weilding many weapons ready to defend Japanese cities from invaders.

So that also makes her a War Goddess.

https://martinifisher.com/2023/02/08/un ... d-culture/

It also reminds me of Japan's famous female warriors known as the onna-bugeisha who fought along male samurai to defend their clans and their communities.

One of the most famous was a girl named Takeko Nakano who along with her sister and mother led an army of warrior women to defend the Aizu clan from the Imperial army.

So maybe in a way Benzaiten could be thought of as the dual role women played in Japanese society? As subserviant dutiful wives mothers and daughters who kept their families happy to brave warrior women skilled in the naginata (a weapon designed especially for female warriors) who defended their families from bandits and enemy invaders during times of war?

https://youtu.be/zQouh5yczWI?si=DVKwvHYueJjBxaMd

Wow, I loved the story about Amaterasu, I even cried a little at the end of the video. I also, couldn't help but noticing again some similarities with traditions from my own people and people that live in the part of the world that I am. One of the similarities I find interesting is offering the food to a deceased ansestors, a table full of food. Four times a year we have this tradition called "Zadušnice" ( I don't know the exact translation, but I will try to describe it. The word is derived from the both words "Duh" meaning "Spirit" and "Duša"meaning "Soul". Prefix "Za" means "Behind", all of which means life of the soul after death) that is one of the leftovers from pagan times. Modern Serbs find it gross and they refuse to pratice it, but those who are traditional are very meticolous about keeping up the tradition. They visit cemeteries en mass that day ( it is always a Saturday) and they bring the food they prepared at least day before: the most important one are boiled and ground grain with walnuts, in which a wax candle will be stuck in, ritual bun and wine. And rakiya ( kind of whiskey). But many people also brings all sorts of diaconias so it can be a real feast, a kind of picnic on the graveyard . They usually spread a cloth and arrange the food on the top of it or even bring a foldable table. If deceased one loved to smoke and drink a coffee, they would bring that, too. First, the wine is spread over the dish with grain and walnuts, the candle is lit and after it burns for some time each of the atendees take a coffee spoon of it, make a cross sign with three fingers, say a prayer for the dead ones and then they would consume the food from the table, but leave on a side a glass of vine or rakiya and a separate plate with food for a dead one. Than they would talk with him/her as if they were alive or they would talk about its life and things they achieved or didn't manage to achieve. In eastern Serbia that is next to Romania and where live people who call themselves Wallachians, they go so far that they build the whole houses for dead ones and fill them with stuff. In Romania you can even find cemetaries that are colorfull and very funny:

Cimitrul cemetary

So I find this concepts of death very interesting and I think customs like this also serve as a psychological preparation for that event that is imminent to all of us. But sorry for this long paralell I made, let me be go back with Japanese tradition. I also like the concept of "Kami" witch I understand as natural forces, a kind of energies that could be even explained by science, but people rather like to visualise them again as some deities or spirits.

As for the concept of earthquakes, they are not mine, I have copy-pasted the text you provided in one of the links above ( the one about seven Gods ), but I can align with it.

I would never think of Geishas as of harlots. I know that it was impossible to find Japanese actresses who would accept the role in the movie "Geisha", so they had to find Chinese ones. But even in that movie in which we could have see the shaming bidding part, no matter what, I respected very much the main character. But certainly, I am looking forward to educate myself more on this theme.

Female warriors in Japanese tradition is something I didn't know about. I find that fascinating, too. It was sad to see in the video you provided that the brave one was killed cowardly, with a gun, at the end.

I would have so much more to say, I have spotted other similarites with my own tradition, but that would make my post way too long. But you keep educating us. I look forward .

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Yeah there's something moving about her story imo. I love the way that the other gods who needed her to come out of the dark cave to bring light to the world did so by throwing a party outside her cave and using a beautiful mirror to show her what she was missing and how much they needed her. I also love the way that her brother Susanoo who had caused so much trouble was able to redeem himself and apologize to his sister in the end.



Wow that's very fascinating! In Mexico and other Latin American countries they do a similiar tradition known to us English speakers as "Day of the Dead" where they also prepare foods to take to the cemeteries and have picnics with their ancestors and deceased loved ones.



It's ok, I find the concept of how different cultures handle death and mourning fascinating myself. So I enjoyed reading that.



Ah, ok. I have to admit I didnt read the whole thing, just the parts I found fascinating... lol



Yeah I've avoided that movie and the book after I learned the truth about Geisha and how amazing yet musunderstood they are.



Yeah I find it very interesting too that a society as deeply patriachal as Japan actually had their own class of female warriors. They were justvas brave and honorable as their male samurai counterparts, but unfortunately because Japan is a deeply patriarchal society their contributions to victory on the battlefield was often ignored because honor was reserved for the male warriors.

Kinda sad really.

Anyways from what I read the onna-bugeisha were Japanese women from high ranking nobility who were trained in swordfighting, martial arts, and the naginata (a kind of curved spear designed especially for women to use) so that they could protect their families, their communities, and their clans from bandits and invading enemy soldiers while their samurai husbands were off fighting on the battlefields. Takeko Nakano was a rare example of a female warrior who broke that tradition by deciding to gather her army of women and join the male samurai on the battlefield.

I wish I could show you that whole documentary. It's really good. [/quote[



Aww thanks. I love just talking about this stuff.

Ah, you are probably talking about this :







It was an exibition in a Spanish Cultural Center, here in Belgrade, few years ago. When I spotted it through a Center windows I was like hypnotized, I just had to see it. I made many photos since I was really fascinated, so cheerfull relation to death and so similar to ours. But more visually appealing, since colors are really bright and decoration is a real piece of art.

But here I've found that Japanese people, too, offer food to their dead ancestors. Here's an interesting discussion about that on Quora:

[url][url]-fm9wA0&udm=&oq=japan+customs+dead+ansestors+food+offerings+graveyard&gs_lp=EhNtb2JpbGUtZ3dzLXdpei1zZXJwIjVqYXBhbiBjdXN0b21zIGRlYWQgYW5zZXN0b3JzIGZvb2Q]Food offerings to d]Food offerings to dead ancestors in Japan[/url][/url]

I forgot to mention, that prior to food offerings in my country, we also first clean the fallen leafs and dirt, clean the tomb stone, pull the weed, bring fresh flower. It can be a long lasting process, even if it not a holiday, but just a regular visit, it usually last at list one hour.

I also like to debate about things like that. Hope I'm not too boring.

Yes, that is exactly what I was referring to!

And yes the Japanese also give offerings of things like food to their deceased ancestors too from what I heard. A similar thing to these traditions of gifting food and offerings to the dead I think was also something done in a Celtic Pagan holiday known as Samhain. It was believed to be the one night of the year when the spirits of the dead could return to earth, and the Celts would cook feasts and offer animal sacrifaces to the dead. They also would hold huge bonfires and enjoy games like bobbing for apples (a game that is still celebrated during the modern holiday of Halloween).

Also you're not boring at all! Talking about these things is fun!

Celtic tribe Scordisci used to live on the territory of ex Yugoslavia, together with paleo Balkan tribes like Illyrians, Dacians, Tracians, etc. Again, I don't know if it is coincidence, but we also have similar holiday, with fire, masks, etc. that is also similar to Halloween night and that is called "Poklade". I think this type of holiday was common to people all across the Europe. Our version, Poklade, was again dedicated to the ancestors, but also it was a day for joy, fun, forgiveness, dance and jumping over a big flame of fire.



Here's a little bit something about it:

Poklade

But we also have a holiday similar to one that Japanese people have, both are happening in January. It's about seven Gods in their boat who bring the luck to people on their way. If I remember children are given a drawing of the boat with seven Gods and advised to put it under their pillow and what they dream of will come true. We have holiday "Bogojavljenje" that is happening on January 19th. The holiday is rather complex and is consisting of several different custom's and beliefs, but I will mention just one - young, unmarried girls are advised to put the mirror under the pillow in the night of 18th January, but first they have to go outside ,in 12 o'clock at night, and to look up at sky, because it is believed that skies are opening in that time and that the God is going to announce himself. After that girl goes to sleep and put the mirror under the pillow - the one that she dreams of is going to be her husband .

I can't help it but not noticing the similarities. It is really strange and fascinating to me that people have almost the same customs and beliefs in two totally opposite parts of the world.

Last edited by DazyDaisy on 19 Mar 2024, 2:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Poklade does sound very interesting! And that website mentioned Mardi Gras aka Carnival next to it. We do Mardi Gras in some parts of the US, it's especially famous in New Orleans but they also do it annually in Pensacola and I've been a few times. I still have all the plastic colorful beads I collected from the last time.

As for the traditions you mentioned of putting things under one's pillow at night to bring good fortune, that also reminds me of something my mom introduced me to when she visited Guatemala in college. They have these cute colorful dolls called "worry dolls" which children place under their pillows at night. Doing so the dolls are believed to take away a child's worries as they sleep.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Worry_doll

Awww, they are so cute , thank you for sharing.

I know about Marti Gras in New Orleans and the custom of collecting beads, that's also interesting!

No problem.

Yeah I actually bought some for my niece. She really loved the one my mom gave me and said "I have worries too..." with big sad eyes. So I got her some for Christmas so that she will have no more worries.

Btw since you find Japan's warrior women interesting, here's a good website with information on Takeko Nakano's story.

Keep in mind some parts of this might be considered disturbing, like how some of the Aizu women considered killing their own children (incluking Takeko's 16 year old sister Yuko who instead joined in battle) because they wanted to spare their children a life of slavery from being captured by the Imperial Army which was planning to kill all their men and rape and sell their women. These people knew they had no hope of defeating the Emperor's vast armies, but they chose to bravely fight back regardless. When they lost the war hundreds of Aizu women chose to commit suicide rather than get captured by the enemy.

Pretty tragic.

https://www.rejectedprincesses.com/prin ... eko-nakano

But I like to think that their warrior goddess (and yes goddess of art and beauty too) Benzaiten would have been very proud of these brave women for fighting back to defend their clan like they did.

In a way she reminds me of "Aphrodite the war-like". Some cults in Greece worshipped Aphrodite not just as a goddess of love, beauty, and art but also as a war-like goddess due to her close link with her lover Ares the God of War.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aphrodite_Areia

You described your niece so well that I can imagine her very easily with her big, sad eyes asking for dolls a:heart:

As for the brave Japanese woman warriors, I wasn't so surprised with their decision to commit suicide because it is understandable that there are those who are capable to realize that suicide would be an easy and quick death compared with the torture and horrors of rape that would be imminent in case they choose not to do so. It is especially tragic if they had to do it to their own children to be able to save them from suffering. In that case it's a heroic act.

The reason I wasn't so surprised is that, ahem, guess what!? One of the biggest mass suicides in history was committed in Serbia, in te village of Skela, 1813, when 50 woman decided to jump together in river Sava to avoid the revenge of Ottoman Turks and their bloody reprisals after defeating Serbs in the first Serbian uprising/rebellion.

All I know is that we don't need no other wars, no local ones, nor the new world one. Yet it is still easy to make people fight and kill each other in XXI century. There we have religions and splitting large nations into tiny nationalities and their countries into banana states. But I don't blame evil masterminds behind these wars, I blame people for being stupid.

Interesting coincidence! Also one has to realize that unlike most societies that view suicide as an abomination, in Japan they tradionally viewed it as a way of regaining one's honor. In their society honor was everything to them.

And I agree that war is a terrible thing. It would be wonderful if we could exist without war...

I'm just not sure that will ever happen though. It just seems to me like violence is one of nastier things ingrained into human nature.

It is violent propaganda that pushes people against each other to kill each other. What they don't realize is that they are just making the space for those who made them fight. They free their lands of themselves, literally. But let's not go further about wars, that makes me really depressed, especially when I see that the world is again about to explode. Or that they are preparing yet another p(L)andemic with draconian laws.

P.S. I meant modern wars. We can still talk about Gods of war and past wars, like those in Japan .

Last edited by DazyDaisy on 19 Mar 2024, 5:35 pm, edited 2 times in total.